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Author Topic: Pricing Outrage for Epson Rolls of Paper  (Read 6661 times)
feppe
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« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2011, 07:48:57 PM »
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If shipping is a negligible cost, and I agree with you on that point, except in the case of airfeighting of the heavy rolls, then your other points make no sense.

Sure it does. Once again, Epson gets their paper shipped by sea by the containerload, you get one roll couriered by air. Huge difference in cost. Do the math on shipping 500 A4 pages in one package vs. individual registered letters and you'll get an idea of the magnitude.

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I can think of no sound economic or business reason why a non-fragile, robust item like a roll of paper weighing  5 or 10Kgs, that is not likely to need repair under warranty or require the setting up of an extensive network of service agents, should cost so much more in Australia than it does elswhere.

Then you have very limited understanding of international business.

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The fact that, after several attempts to buy such rolls of paper from overseas companies like Amazon or B&H in America and the UK, I am advised that shipping to Australia is not allowed or not available, makes me suspicious of some sort of collusion going on.

Collusion implies unlawful behavior. I'm not familiar with Australian law, but in Europe it is quite common for a certain distributor to have the right to sell a product to only one country, or a set of countries, while another distributor serves another set of countries. It could be that Epson has sold exclusive distribution in Australia to company X, which is not B&H or Amazon. Many American companies don't ship Blurays to Europe, for example.
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Farmer
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« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2011, 10:01:47 PM »
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There are support costs for media.  You can call a dealer or the manufacturer and ask for information, help with profiles, driver settings, stock QA, asssitance with selection of appropriate media, pretty much order any of the available sizes on demand as it's all held in stock for you so on and so forth.  Of course, these compaines (the dealers and the vendors) don't just sell media.  They have other costs.  Those costs are spread among the various products and services that they sell.  They will choose a business model that is profitable (which means one acceptable to the market, among other things).

They are senstive to feedback - if the market isn't buying, they either change their price, their delivery or their product (they might also engage in discounts, advertising and so on).  If the market is buying, they are less likely to make changes.

The entire world is not the same.  It costs different amounts to conduct business in different countries.  If, for example, the advantages of the US market were spread across the rest of the markets to bring the prices down, it's possible that the profitability of the US operation might decline and require higher prices to sustain it.  This may make it unprofitable in that market and thereby remove the capacity to support other operations in the first place.

This is just one of literally dozens of examples and reasons why pricing varies.  Numerous others have been provided by a number of people.  Ultimately, though, everyone agrees that if you don't think it's good value then don't buy it and tell the vendor why.

Or, do you really think that every vendor and dealer selling media in Australia are all working together?  Canon, HP, Epson, Canson, Hahnemühle, Innova etc, etc all working together to conspire against the Australian market?

Let me ask you - how much do you sell a print for?  What percentage of that price is the media?  If someone in the US can deliver a print of equal quality and similar subject for a signicantly lower price are you price gouging?  No you're not - because price gouging is where you take unreasonable advantage of a shortage of supply due to unusual circumstances (say a natural disaster) to charge a price significantly inflated above the normal price in THAT market.

If you can deliver a lower price to the US than a US vendor but the freight costs so much as to negate that advantage, is that your fault?  Of couorse not.

If you supply through a reseller rather than direct and you have a deal with one in Australia and one in the US and you tell them not to ship to the other region because you already have an appointed distributor, are you doing anything other than normal business management of a distribution channel?  Is there some law that says you must sell to everyone and anyone anywhere in the world directly?  Certainly not.

Again, Sven, this is why I usually don't join in :-)
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tom b
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« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2011, 11:10:22 PM »
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It's not only paper that is the problem, Apple has been asked to explain their pricing in Australia. The full Sydney Morning Herald article is here.

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feppe
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« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2011, 05:28:36 AM »
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It's not only paper that is the problem, Apple has been asked to explain their pricing in Australia. The full Sydney Morning Herald article is here.

You think you have it bad? Try Europe or Brazil. Similar patterns can be seen in the prices of most other hi-tech products.
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Ray
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« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2011, 07:06:52 AM »
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Sure it does. Once again, Epson gets their paper shipped by sea by the containerload, you get one roll couriered by air. Huge difference in cost. Do the math on shipping 500 A4 pages in one package vs. individual registered letters and you'll get an idea of the magnitude.


Don't be silly! Grin Do you think I'm mad? Why would I complain about the price of a 10Kg item that had been air-freighted across half the globe? Everyone knows that airfreighting heavy items is expensive.

Is it not reasonable to assume that the manufacturer of Epson rolls of wide-format paper delivers such paper to Epson Australia, whether from Japan, China or Europe, by surface freight, ie ship and road?

These items have a reasonably long shelf life, you know! Around 100 years, from reports I've read.

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It could be that Epson has sold exclusive distribution in Australia to company X, which is not B&H or Amazon. Many American companies don't ship Blurays to Europe, for example

Epson Australia is a company formed in 1983. Their head office is in Sydney. They provide their own on-line shopping service, but also sell printers (and other Epson hardware) and photographic paper to other retailers in Australia who are usually able to undercut the Epson RRP to such a significant degree that the price, in respect of wide-format rolls of paper, is only 3x the American price.

But don't worry on my behalf. Now that I'm aware of this huge price discrepancy, the next time I'm overseas in Singapore or Thailand perhaps, I shall investigate the price of such heavy rolls of paper over there, and if I find some good prices that even approach the prices of B&H in America, I shall have a few rolls freighted back home by surface mail, to last me a few years. Problem solved!  Grin
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enduser
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« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2011, 08:17:10 AM »
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One final comment from me: There are US businesses that will buy on your behalf and take delivery for you.  They then seek the cheapest way to get it to you, and money can be saved.   Do this and all the angst about people refusing to send to wherever goes away.  At that point your beef is only with freight or postal services.

If you order six or a dozen rolls the delivery fee won't be six or twelve times a single roll, so bulk ordering helps too.  You could form a buying group in your country, many do, and bring in wholesale quantities.   If you live in Oz they'll only tack 10% on at the inward point.  There are freight services which will sell you space in a less-than-full shipping container for significant quantities.

So, please, give it a rest and think outside the square and realize that whatever you do, it's going to cost more to do business in some countries, and as others have said, the smaller the market, the more it costs.
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Ray
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« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2011, 08:39:13 AM »
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One final comment from me: There are US businesses that will buy on your behalf and take delivery for you.  They then seek the cheapest way to get it to you, and money can be saved.   Do this and all the angst about people refusing to send to wherever goes away.  At that point your beef is only with freight or postal services.

If you order six or a dozen rolls the delivery fee won't be six or twelve times a single roll, so bulk ordering helps too.  You could form a buying group in your country, many do, and bring in wholesale quantities.   If you live in Oz they'll only tack 10% on at the inward point.  There are freight services which will sell you space in a less-than-full shipping container for significant quantities.

So, please, give it a rest and think outside the square and realize that whatever you do, it's going to cost more to do business in some countries, and as others have said, the smaller the market, the more it costs.

My only concern here is efficiency, a fair go and prosperity for the consumer. We all have some appreciation of the economies of scale. Even in the Supermarket, we expect a 1Kg bag of sugar to be more expensive than half the price of a 2Kg bag of sugar.

A roll of paper that is 50% more expensive than it is in America might not seem unusual. But 3x the price is absurd. Anyone who thinks that is acceptable must be either stark, raving bonkers, or have so much money that prices of ordinary things don't matter.

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Sven W
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« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2011, 10:32:37 AM »
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Again, Sven, this is why I usually don't join in :-)

Phil,
I'm so sorry  Grin

/Sven
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Sven W
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« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2011, 10:34:16 AM »
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The first thing you learn in Business Training is the fact about market size.
If I buy 500 rolls I'll get, say, 30% off. (US)
If i buy 5 rolls I'll get 3%. (AUS) (EU) et al

/Sven
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Ray
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« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2011, 06:42:44 PM »
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The first thing you learn in Business Training is the fact about market size.
If I buy 500 rolls I'll get, say, 30% off. (US)
If i buy 5 rolls I'll get 3%. (AUS) (EU) et al

/Sven

You don't even need business training to understand that. Every shopper in the supermarket can see the principle of 'quantity discount' being applied.

My concern here is not that an item is 30% more expensive in a country with a smaller market, but 200% more expensive. Got it?
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PeterDewar
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« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2011, 12:09:39 AM »
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Hi Ray

I've only just come across this thread. Around the same time as your original post I was having the exact same problem with Epson inks. I eventually imported from the States at less than half the discounted Australian prices. And that after B&H had informed me that they are not permitted to export Epson products to Australia.

However, back to paper. I use Epson Premium Lustre in A2 sheet size. A 25 off box of these costs less than AUD50 in the States, cost me around AUD 80 in South Africa (which I thought a rip off), but now I am expected to pay about AUD 200 in Australia! However, I see a similar problem with at least one other make of quality printing paper.

So my question, did you finally find an Australian supplier who could sell you an equivalent paper at a reasonable price?

regards - Peter
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Farmer
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« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2011, 03:29:04 PM »
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For how much do you sell an A2 print?
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Ray
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« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2012, 06:46:29 AM »
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So my question, did you finally find an Australian supplier who could sell you an equivalent paper at a reasonable price?

regards - Peter


Hi Peter,
I've just noticed your question. The last roll of Epson paper I bought was over a year ago, shortly after I started this thread. The total price I paid for a 24" x 100ft roll of Premium Glossy, including 10% tax (GST), and $30 freight within Australia, was A$277.75. That was the lowest price I could find.

The identical roll of paper (250gs) costs US$88 at B&H in the US, with free freight within the US. As you probably know, the Aussie dollar is about equal value to the US dollar. What a rip-off!

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/253388-REG/Epson_S041638_Premium_Glossy_Photo_Paper.html

Sorry! Not over a year ago. I'm exaggerating. Looking at the receipt, I see it was the 17th August 2011.  Grin
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 08:42:22 AM by Ray » Logged
enduser
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« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2012, 08:17:18 PM »
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First, I'm not affiliated with these guys in any way, but for Oz people, gicleemedia.com.au/ are a great source of papers of many types, at very good prices.

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PeterDewar
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« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2012, 01:56:18 AM »
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Thanks for the replies gents. I guess we have to grin and bear it. I'm now trying a Canson equivalent, which is only about 40% up on the B&H price.

regards - Peter
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2012, 08:26:42 AM »
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Easy.

1) Move to the US or
2) Establish your own paper-importing company and make a killing

P.S. Unless, of course, it's a mob-controlled business, in which case they'll do the killing part... The hidden benefit of which would be to confirm your conspiracy theories.

P.P.S. It's funny how we all want to be capitalists when selling, but socialists when buying.

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Slobodan

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« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2012, 03:43:25 PM »
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P.P.S. It's funny how we all want to be capitalists when selling, but socialists when buying.

And assume full knowledge in the process :-)
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Bluebottle
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« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2012, 04:17:03 PM »
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First, I'm not affiliated with these guys in any way, but for Oz people, gicleemedia.com.au/ are a great source of papers of many types, at very good prices.




I have an issue with their canvas rolls - going yellow, lumps and end of roll ridges. the last couple of rolls 17" premium canvas haven't been the best.  wasted about 4 metres in total.

What is the most worrying is the yellowing. This issue I intend to take up with them.

I can't sell prints if the material is not archival.

rob 
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Ray
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« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2012, 12:09:33 AM »
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I'm not interested in buying non-Epson papers for two main reasons. (1) the longevity is an unknown factor, as mentioned by Rob. (2) I'm still using the free Bill Atkinson profiles created for the Epson papers with the 9600 and 7600, which are quite satisfactory, and I don't wish to give myself the work and hassle of creating new profiles.
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Bluebottle
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« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2012, 03:26:43 PM »
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I'm not interested in buying non-Epson papers for two main reasons. (1) the longevity is an unknown factor, as mentioned by Rob. (2) I'm still using the free Bill Atkinson profiles created for the Epson papers with the 9600 and 7600, which are quite satisfactory, and I don't wish to give myself the work and hassle of creating new profiles.


The Epson papers I use do not have problems and they garantee  their papers archival.

Whereas Giclee just wash over the quality and with sending you another roll or credit as replacement. I mention this so others are aware of the problems.

rob
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