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Author Topic: How much do you charge a country?  (Read 5124 times)
Dave (Isle of Skye)
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« on: August 18, 2011, 07:38:25 AM »
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Hi all,

I am only just turning pro after many years, but have already been asked to submit some of my images to a country for their board of tourism to use. I am only in early discussions as yet, but any images of mine they want to use, will be used globally for advertisment purposes via anything from magazine adverts through to billboards, or possibly even on TV.

How do I go about negotiating agreements and prices with a country and what payment could I reasonably hope to recieve?

Thanks for any info and help.

Dave (UK)
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Josh-H
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« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2011, 08:03:30 AM »
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Quote
Hi all,

I am only just turning pro after many years, but have already been asked to submit some of my images to a country for their board of tourism to use. I am only in early discussions as yet, but any images of mine they want to use, will be used globally for advertisment purposes via anything from magazine adverts through to billboards, or possibly even on TV.

How do I go about negotiating agreements and prices with a country and what payment could I reasonably hope to recieve?

Thanks for any info and help.

Dave (UK)

What your (and I use that term in a generic way) photographs are 'worth' vs. what you can 'sell' them for is often an equation that rarely balances. Thus the short and generalised answer... is as a pro ' whatever you can get for them that is over and above your break even point to make a living from your photography and ensure repeat business. '

An amateur will usually either give away their images or sell them for far less than a pro photographer - usually because they are happy just get something in print. They don't know the real value of an image per se in terms of what it means in $ to a working pro. This is why a lot of pros are whinging that amateurs are eating into their market. But I digress...

In order to give any kind of meaningful answer to your question you will have to give more detail. What sort of use are the images for - I dont mean where will they be used as you have given an indication already - but will they be Rights managed? provided for exclusive use?

Wether your client has made you aware or not - they WILL have a budget for the purchase of images. If its government (I assume by country you mean a government tourism dept.)  then that budget will be pretty much set in stone. In fact, they will likely tell you what they will pay you for them and you will be left to make the decision on wether you want to accept it or not.

I dont mean to sound blunt or overtly critical; but if you have turned pro you should already have a good idea on how to negotiate agreements as well as understanding what payment you 'need'; rather than what you 'hope to receive'. Its a critical difference.

As a pro you have to be prepared to walk away from a potential sale if the $ just dont stack up for you. Work out what you need in dollars from the photographs to maintain your life and run a business (it will be a scary number). Sell yourself and your photos for the value they are worth to your client (easier said than done these days). Dont give them away just to make a cheap buck. I declined to license some files only last week to a company in NZ that couldn't even get close to what I need to make my living. They were shocked when I rejected their offer - even when I explained why in great detail. Sometimes thats just the way it goes...

I dont know who the UK pro photography association is - but here in Australia the AIPP provide an industry guide to pricing for this sort of thing if you are unsure of where to start. Might be worth speaking with the UK equivalent (I assume there is one).
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 08:16:40 AM by Josh-H » Logged

Dave (Isle of Skye)
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« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2011, 10:32:23 AM »
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Thanks Josh,

Thanks for the reply - I am very very new to this, even though I am quite an old hand at photography and you are right, I need to get my head together and work out my costs in a more rational and cool headed way.

I also agree that as it is the government arm of the tourism industry, that they will definitely have a budget to work to and I will either have to accept the offer or walk away - but I can also see how I could be drawn into this, even if it is a relatively low ball offer, because for me to have them as client would be worth something to me and my business as I start out - but as my father-in-law used to say, any idiot can work for nothing...

I will take your advice and see how it goes and try to keep a professional attitude to it all and everything else I do in the future - so thanks again, that is just what I needed.

Dave (UK)
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N Walker
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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2011, 06:29:28 PM »
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Hi all,

I am only just turning pro after many years, but have already been asked to submit some of my images to a country for their board of tourism to use. I am only in early discussions as yet, but any images of mine they want to use, will be used globally for advertisment purposes via anything from magazine adverts through to billboards, or possibly even on TV.

How do I go about negotiating agreements and prices with a country and what payment could I reasonably hope to recieve?

Thanks for any info and help.

Dave (UK)

Dave,

I have sent you a private message through LL
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Dave (Isle of Skye)
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« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2011, 07:12:24 AM »
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Thanks Nick  Smiley
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Dave (Isle of Skye)
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« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2011, 07:30:24 AM »
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Buy & read Chapter 5, if nothing else.

Thanks for this Yelhsa, I have immediately ordered a copy and will read it from cover to cover.

In fact thanks to everyone who has replied to my post, you guys are the best.

Dave (UK)
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ixania2
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« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2011, 04:13:33 AM »
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I dont mean to sound blunt or overtly critical; but if you have turned pro you should already have a good idea on how to negotiate agreements as well as understanding what payment you 'need'; rather than what you 'hope to receive'. Its a critical difference.



So if you need millions, you'll get? Because you need it. Good for you.
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haring
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« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2011, 12:55:41 PM »
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What your (and I use that term in a generic way) photographs are 'worth' vs. what you can 'sell' them for is often an equation that rarely balances.

I agree....
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Dave (Isle of Skye)
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2011, 06:57:46 AM »
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Published in England by the Association of Photographers (AOP), Beyond the Lens is the essential guide to rights, ethics and business practice in professional photography.

Buy & read Chapter 5, if nothing else.

My copy of 'AOP Beyond the Lens' has just landed on my desk and I am straight into it - chapter 5 'Making a Living' "There is no justice... the best people are not always the ones who are the most successful. It is the ones that want it most that will come out on top."

Wow, wise words - thanks for directing me to this gold mine of information, I already know it is going to be essential.

Dave (UK)
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Josh-H
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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2011, 07:12:25 AM »
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I would also check out Alain Briot's new book *free plug Alain!* 'Marketing your Fine Art Photography'

It covers some very poignant topics including how to go about pricing your work in the fine art segment as well as how to succeed in the business of photography.
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Dave (Isle of Skye)
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« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2011, 07:22:28 AM »
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I would also check out Alain Briot's new book *free plug Alain!* 'Marketing your Fine Art Photography'

Thanks Josh, I have ordered it immediately - I already own a couple of Alain's books and would also like to buy his seminar DVD's, but they are way out of my budget at the moment.

You know I thought I had bought every (and I do mean EVERY) relevant book and DVD on photography, my book shelves and DVD racks are quite literally overflowing - but then I find I need even more, will I ever stop?

Don't tell me the answer to that, I think I already know what it is..   Cheesy

Dave (UK)
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alainbriot
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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2011, 09:55:08 PM »
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Hi Josh,

Thank you for the 'free plug'.  Much appreciated.  Obviously I am biased towards the quality of my own books, but I don't think readers are taking a chance by buying these books.  Reviews for my last book on Amazon.com have been excellent.   As of today I have 16 reviews for 'Marketing Fine Art Photography": fifteen of these give the book 5/5 stars and one gives it 4/5 stars.  The Marketing book is also #3 in the category 'Professional Photography Books' today.

I also offer my books in eBook format if you prefer digital publications.  Here is the link:
http://beautiful-landscape.com/Ebooks-Books-1-2-3.html

eBooks are only available on my site.

Alain
« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 09:56:53 PM by alainbriot » Logged

Alain Briot
Author of Mastering Landscape Photography, Mastering Composition, Creativity and Personal Style., Marketing Fine Art Photography and How Photographs are Sold.
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markd61
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« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2011, 03:16:39 PM »
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"There is no justice... the best people are not always the ones who are the most successful. It is the ones that want it most that will come out on top."


Something that I have told my kids for years. Hard to get me living that though.
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