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RSL
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« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2011, 08:08:37 PM »
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Sorry, Slobodan. It wasn't my idea.
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stamper
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« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2011, 02:38:27 AM »
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Why does every endeavor to have an intellectual discourse seem to sooner or later end up in... poop (bear or otherwise)?

Possibly because you are dealing with an articulated troll?
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kikashi
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« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2011, 03:19:22 AM »
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Subject-verb agreement, Russ: "Man, and the hand of man, are a part of nature." Wink

Quite right, Jack. I thought about that while I was walking around town doing street photography and it bothered me a lot.

I think not, Russ: Jack's wrong and you were right first time.

Your use of commas around "and the hand of man" generated a subordinate clause; it was therefore appropriate for the verb to match the subject of the main clause, Man, and to remain in the singular. If you had omitted the commas (or even used a single Oxford comma before the "and"), a plural verb would have been correct; but you didn't.

Jeremy (in pedant mode)
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RSL
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« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2011, 10:08:48 AM »
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Thanks for the analysis, Jeremy. You're right, of course. It felt right when I wrote it, but I didn't stop to analyze it. In grade school I was an expert at diagramming sentences but I haven't done that for at least half a long lifetime and I think I've almost forgotten how. But my mother was a high school English teacher who'd brook no sloppiness, so, with a few exceptions, my  instincts are pretty dependable.
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2011, 01:46:03 PM »
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I think not, Russ: Jack's wrong and you were right first time.

Your use of commas around "and the hand of man" generated a subordinate clause; it was therefore appropriate for the verb to match the subject of the main clause, Man, and to remain in the singular. If you had omitted the commas (or even used a single Oxford comma before the "and"), a plural verb would have been correct; but you didn't.

Jeremy (in pedant mode)
But "and the hand of man" is not a clause at all.

Eric M. (in hyper-pedant mode)    Cheesy
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-Eric Myrvaagnes

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kikashi
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« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2011, 03:15:49 PM »
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But "and the hand of man" is not a clause at all.

Eric M. (in hyper-pedant mode)    Cheesy
I stand corrected: "phrase".

Now if only stamper's idea (I think it was his) had been put into practice, I could revise my original comment and delete yours, rewriting history and making myself look good.

Jeremy
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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #46 on: October 01, 2011, 09:26:21 PM »
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Why does every endeavor to have an intellectual discourse seem to sooner or later end up in... poop (bear or otherwise)?

Ask Russ.




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Sorry, Slobodan. It wasn't my idea.

Are you in the habit of lying to yourself like this all the time, Russ?

I call your attention to Page 2, Post #37, of this thread topic wherein you led this discussion directly "there" by saying (and I quote): "Look out for the bear poop, Jack."

Is there anything you are willing to be forthright about (or that you can get right)?




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I stand corrected: "phrase".
Now if only stamper's idea (I think it was his) had been put into practice, I could revise my original comment and delete yours, rewriting history and making myself look good.
Jeremy

Thanks for the laugh watching you and Russ flip-flop (Russ twice).

Nice try Jeremy; have a seat

Hope you all have a great weekend,

Jack


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jeremypayne
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« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2011, 09:44:08 PM »
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{angry, space-wasting, defensive, argumentative drivel}

Don't you get tired of being "against" people all the time?  Aren't you tired of arguing about nothing with everyone?

Didn't you get banned for a while?  What's up, man?  Can't you just chill out?
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RSL
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« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2011, 04:19:15 PM »
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I am sorry, but this is flawed logic Justan: Just because the hand of man (or woman) captures an image on the backside of the camera, does not mean that mankind must be in any way a part of what's being captured in front of the camera.

Evidently when Jack wants a nature picture he sends out a robot with camera in hand.
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kikashi
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« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2011, 04:37:16 PM »
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Thanks for the laugh watching you and Russ flip-flop (Russ twice).

Nice try Jeremy; have a seat.

Oh dear. I've just listened to an episode of Just A Minute in which Gyles Brandreth acted as you do, Jack, arguing on every occasion that he was right when he clearly wasn't. Of course, he was joking.

I've not "flip-flopped": I merely made a mistake in pointing out your error. We must forgive Russ and let him retract: he allowed himself to be bullied into a Gallilean confession that he was wrong but he remains a better photographer and critic than either of us.

Jeremy

[edit] PS: if anyone (yes Jack, anyone) wants to try this grammar quiz I'll happily let them know how they got on. It's from The Times, published quite recently.
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2011, 08:40:21 PM »
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[edit] PS: if anyone (yes Jack, anyone) wants to try this grammar quiz I'll happily let them know how they got on. It's from The Times, published quite recently.

I'm skeptical, since #12 (listed under "pronouns") has three errors including a punctuation error.
They are probably considering "whomever" to be in error (as it is), but the preposition "after" at the end of the sequence of words needs an object, most likely "him." In addition, that particular sequence of words does not constitute a sentence since there is no period at the end.

And what does the Times have to say about it, Jeremy?

Eric

P.S. You really should put a comma at the end of the clause ending in "quiz." Am I being sufficiently pedantic?  Cheesy
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-Eric Myrvaagnes

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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2011, 09:42:36 PM »
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Hmmm... now this is a tough one. I can't decide who is overrunning LuLa forums more: geeks or pedants? Wink
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Slobodan

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kikashi
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« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2011, 02:09:12 AM »
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Hmmm... now this is a tough one. I can't decide who is overrunning LuLa forums more: geeks or pedants? Wink
Please, Sir, can I be in both gangs?

Jeremy
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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2011, 08:07:07 AM »
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Don't you get tired of being "against" people all the time?  Aren't you tired of arguing about nothing with everyone?
Didn't you get banned for a while?  What's up, man?  Can't you just chill out?

Just curious, why are "you" getting so emotional over a debate that has nothing to do with you?

Me personally, I thought I was in a legitimate debate about whether "the hand of man" needed to be in a landscape shot or not, which (thanks to Russ) turned kind of south, but I felt Russ and I were just being mutual "wise-guys" to each other, nothing more. I certainly didn't think anything stated here was something to get upset about, even though I had my photography attacked

But since I did just receive a personal "warning" from Michael, it seems that some people have gotten their feelings hurt here, so I guess my final post on this subject will put an end to my participation in this digression, as it appears some people can't take what they dish out ...

Thus, in closing, I will say I am sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings bad enough so that they had to tell Michael about it. I personally don't take these internet debates/wise-guy fests that seriously, but apparently individual sensitivities vary.




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Oh dear. I've just listened to an episode of Just A Minute in which Gyles Brandreth acted as you do, Jack, arguing on every occasion that he was right when he clearly wasn't. Of course, he was joking.
I've not "flip-flopped": I merely made a mistake in pointing out your error.



Gosh, this is just too funny. (If only I hadn't just been warned Wink )

Jeremy#2, I believe you are confusing a parenthetical expression, which (had Russ used parentheses) would have kept the verb tense singular ... with merely using commas, which is what Russ used, and commas do not isolate what's inside them from being included in the verb tense in the same way parentheses do.

As for myself, I am never wrong.
(Well, once I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.)




We must forgive Russ and let him retract: he allowed himself to be bullied into a Gallilean confession that he was wrong.

I did not bully Russ at all: I merely pointed out an error which he immediately acknowledged. However, since someone felt the need to "tell on me," then maybe I was being a bully without realizing it.




but he remains a better photographer and critic than either of us.
Jeremy

Please speak for yourself Jeremy. I have really enjoyed some of Russ' photos, within his comfortable genre and shooting style, but as a macro shooter I think I would compare favorably with either one of you, and by a pretty wide margin.

That said, I don't think there is much to be gained by spiralling downward and debating who is better than whom here; rather I thought this section of the forum was designed so that we can all enjoy what we each do best  ... and help each other on matters where we need work.

Don't you think that would be more positive?




[edit] PS: if anyone (yes Jack, anyone) wants to try this grammar quiz I'll happily let them know how they got on. It's from The Times, published quite recently.

Thanks for the challenge, but this will be my last post on this topic.

In closing, I would like to apologize to Riaan for my participation in this group-hijacking of his thread.

Hope everyone had a good weekend!

Jack



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« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 08:08:38 AM by John Koerner » Logged
RSL
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« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2011, 09:07:28 AM »
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Please speak for yourself Jeremy. I have really enjoyed some of Russ' photos, within his comfortable genre and shooting style, but as a macro shooter I think I would compare favorably with either one of you, and by a pretty wide margin.

You'll never compare favorably with me in microphotography, Jack, because I don't do microphotography. As far as I'm concerned, Microphotography is a commercial job for idiot savants -- people who are good at one thing and nothing else.

Everybody have a good week. I'm off to Taos for a few days.
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kikashi
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« Reply #55 on: October 04, 2011, 02:50:34 AM »
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Jeremy#2, I believe you are confusing a parenthetical expression, which (had Russ used parentheses) would have kept the verb tense singular ... with merely using commas, which is what Russ used, and commas do not isolate what's inside them from being included in the verb tense in the same way parentheses do.
Whatever your beliefs, you're a better microphotographer than you are a grammarian. Stick to your strengths.

Jeremy
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Justan
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« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2011, 10:01:32 AM »
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As far as I'm concerned, Microphotography is a commercial job for idiot savants -- people who are good at one thing and nothing else.


Russ,

This is the latest and most strident of a very long series of insults that you have unleashed on this forum. If one was to look, one would find dozens and dozens of people you have insulted. Not only did you start this engagement, but you have done nothing but escalate. I don’t know what your motivation is for this. At one point you were a very congenial and positive influence to this forum, but that time has long since past.

I strongly suggest you take some time and decide if this is truly how you wish to present yourself.

By the way, I reported not just your post above but noted your endless series of argumentative and insulting comments to the forum’s owner.

The type of discourse you in which you’ve chosen to engage has absolutely no place on this forum. Since you clearly have not read it recently, I urge you to note form’s title and guidelines. They are as follows:

“User Critiques”

“A place for reasoned and civilized discussion about user submitted photographs”


You have succeeded in making both this thread and this forum an inflammatory and hostile place. Way to go.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2011, 02:04:45 PM »
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Tracy,

The only part I would agree with is that the term "idiot savant" is perhaps too strong for everyone's taste. Everything else in your post is a gross overreaction, including your reporting to the forum owner. Sometimes debates do stray into, say, a macho territory, but most of us can take it... not sure about female sensitivities though.
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Slobodan

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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2011, 02:30:22 PM »
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Tracy,
The only part I would agree with is that the term "idiot savant" is perhaps too strong for everyone's taste. Everything else in your post is a gross overreaction, including your reporting to the forum owner. Sometimes debates do stray into, say, a macho territory, but most of us can take it... not sure about female sensitivities though.


Well the problem, Slobodan, is the issue of fairness.

I have a thousand things to say in response, to rip both Russ and Jeremy a new @$$**** each, that would be both factually-accurate as well as hilarious to read, but "I" get singled out and warned by Michael, when in fact it is Russ who is getting more and more insulting. There is nothing "macho" about running your mouth like Russ does, and then complaining to the moderator so that the person you're attacking cannot even respond back without being banned. That is cowardice.

Now then, you know as well as I do that I am game to enjoy wiseguy-fest with anyone, for as long as they want to take it, but when people start tattling like crybabies, but keep running their own mouths, it ceases to be a level playing field, especially with moderator favoritism. Why should one guy's lowdown personal attacks be overlooked, while his opponent gets his privileges threatened if he responds? That is bullship, if you ask me.

I agree with you, Slobodan, that people should be allowed to arm-punch each other as long as they want to, but I think Justan is justified in what he says too, because a person's style of photography should not be attacked. This is more bullship.

It is one thing to debate legitimate points, as well as divergent points of view; it is quite another just to call all practitioners of a particular genre "idiots" for what they do. That ceases to have any legitimate purpose other than to inflame and debase. And certainly there is nothing honorable about talking smack to someone whom you've made sure can't respond back to you. In point of fact, there is nothing weaker or lamer than that.

There is a fine line between having a rowdy discussion with a point to it ... and just getting into a mean-spirited, pointless insult-fest ... and I think Justan is right in calling Russ to task for crossing that line.

Jack

PS: I hope I don't get banned for stating my point of view


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« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 02:56:04 PM by John Koerner » Logged
Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2011, 05:53:49 PM »
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Not banned - just bored. Topic Closed.
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Christopher Sanderson
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