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Author Topic: New Red Canon mount  (Read 10365 times)
Graeme Nattress
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« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2011, 08:23:25 AM »
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I'd be slow in ordering an Epic.  Even the RED site says this camera is not ready for full production.

Batteries, the talks of overheating, too much too worry about in production.

I have no doubt Epic will get there, but all the parts need to be on the shelf, all the beta testing needs to be completed.

IMO

BC

Epic-M's are hand made cameras and we asked that those buying them provide feedback to help improve the camera. The newly released Epic-X is the same camera that has the benefit of that feedback and is in full production, not hand made. I'm not aware of any overheating issues, and have had reports of Epic's performing well in temperature extremes.

Graeme
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billy
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« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2011, 06:29:59 PM »
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"Epic-M's are hand made cameras and we asked that those buying them provide feedback to help improve the camera. The newly released Epic-X is the same camera that has the benefit of that feedback and is in full production, not hand made."

I called the red company the other day to try to figure out what the difference is with the epic x, m and s. I couldnt get any info. can you explain this graeme? how big are the sensors? how big is the epic s sensor supposed to be?

I also tried to get answers on the red forum but that site is unusable due to the amount of worthless replys from all the fanboys.

I want to buy a red, just want to see what the epic s is gonna be and how much it will cost. I was gonna wait for a canon video camera that shoots raw video but it doesnt seem like it will happen soon.
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Graeme Nattress
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« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2011, 08:42:57 PM »
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M & X are essentially the same camera, features and image-making wise, but M is machined, hand built, whereas X is production made, and a bit lighter. S specs have not been released - it's a cheaper Epic with less horse-power for it's featureset and we'll tell you more on that when we're ready.

Sensors are approx super-35mm size, 27.7mm x 14.6mm

At least you have the option to buy a raw shooting motion stills camera -  when we started such a thing just wasn't there so we had to do it ourselves :-) The Epic works great - it's quick to pick up and shoot with. Today the kids were in the pool so I grabbed the Epic, hit the power switch and grabbed some 120fps shots of them diving into the pool, and then pulled a still of the little one to send to the grandparents. It beats shooting test charts for me!! But seriously, it's that quick and easy to use and shoot and get some very nice shots, with a very wide range of lens compatibility.

Graeme
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2011, 02:31:40 AM »
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nice example of pulling stills

120 FPS shot at 250

stills are sharp

what would the stills have been like at 24?

Here is an idea..

could the HDRX channel be reprogrammed to be a second exposure time a shorter one making pullable stills actually realistic proposition

at loss of recoverable DR of course

--

any comment on canon lenses?
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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bcooter
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« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2011, 04:15:36 AM »
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Epic-M's are hand made cameras and we asked that those buying them provide feedback to help improve the camera. The newly released Epic-X is the same camera that has the benefit of that feedback and is in full production, not hand made. I'm not aware of any overheating issues, and have had reports of Epic's performing well in temperature extremes.

Graeme



Graeme,

Take this from someone that thinks a lot of RED and can prove it with written checks, uh actually cash.

In the last month we've shot with both our RED Ones completely around the world, over 12 terabytes of data, in 100f temperature in 100% humidity and not had a glitch.

We love the look of the file, have tested it against almost everything, shot it in real life productions next to the Canon and Sony FS100 and know how well the RED file stands up and more importantly how pretty it is, so I guess you can say we're a fan of RED.

Though today when shooting our Sound Tech who just came off a commercial shoot with two Epics said both went down (his words) multiple times during the day and he could hear the fans during shooting.  Now this could be user error, it could be a million things, but this is the third time I've heard it.

I want RED to more that prosper given the investment we have in their cameras and once I'm sure the Epic is safe and secure we'll go on the list, whatever that list is.

Now I will admit I'm not a fan of "the list" because I have never understood it and when you work in heavy production the last thing you want to do is wait for anything, much less go on a moving list that doesn't have a time/date stamp.

I'm glad Mr. Jannard just announced that RED would not prior announce anything until it's ready to sell, which I think is a great idea and keeps the negative buzz way down.

I'm also not a fan of RED requiring cash instead of a credit card.  Kind of silly given our studios credit line and the fact we get a lot of benifits and protection when buying by Amex.

Anyway.

I'd sure like to be able to buy or know when I can buy two bomb EVF's.

You know when?

Could we borrow a couple from Peter Jackson?

IMO

BC
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Graeme Nattress
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« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2011, 07:18:28 AM »
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nice example of pulling stills

120 FPS shot at 250

stills are sharp

what would the stills have been like at 24?

Here is an idea..

could the HDRX channel be reprogrammed to be a second exposure time a shorter one making pullable stills actually realistic proposition

at loss of recoverable DR of course

--

any comment on canon lenses?

Yes, HDRx works great for that. For me it was just too darn bright so setting it to 120fps gave me the shutter I needed anyhow!

Graeme
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2011, 08:54:50 AM »
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Yes, HDRx works great for that. For me it was just too darn bright so setting it to 120fps gave me the shutter I needed anyhow!

Graeme

You are talking Red Mumbo jumbo

1/250th is an acepptable shutter for both still images and motion 120FPS motion

 Shooting at lower shutters like 1/48 does not lead to grabbable stills

I asked if you could use the HDRx channel to shoot at 250 while the main channel is shooting 1/48

therefore leading to a true vid stream with grabbable sharp stills embedded

---

I also asked (as per the topic title)

If you could expand a little on the canon/red solution

-af - does it work
-canon lens motors - do they last when used for this application
-do they step small/smooth enough to do nice focus pulls

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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Graeme Nattress
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« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2011, 09:12:43 AM »
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So, say you have shutter at 1/48th. Setting HDRx to 1 stop will give you a second co-joined frame at 1/96th. HDRx+2 will make it 1/192 and HDRx+3 will make it 1/384th. So no, you can't set the x track to 1/250th - but I'll take that as a feature request to allow for more control over the second track shutter speed.

AF - yes it works. Necessarily it's contrast based rather than by using separate phase detectors though. IS works too, as does electronic control of aperture to the resolution the lens allows which I think is 1/4 stop.

Lens motors lasting is a Canon question.

For "nice focus pulls" are you meaning automated where you'd set two focus positions on the camera and ask it to move from one to the other, rather than manually adjusting the lens ring control yourself? Not sure on this - I don't have the Canon mount on the camera at the moment so that's something I'll investigate when I can. I'm not sure of the current firmware lens driving functionality so when I find out I'll report back.

Graeme
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2011, 09:25:33 AM »
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Nice focus pulls - Im talking manual

THe Okii canon controller (in a different class I know)

The motion is either steppy or slow - rendering the device IMO unusable

(the designer of that system blames the canon cameras ability to feed info to the lens)

I just wondered how the system 'feels'

--

As for the HDRx channel - very interesting

I would not need 1/250 - specifically - Im just saying for natural light stills 1/48 is generally fuzzy and getting a secondary stream a couple of stops faster than that would make the 'grabable stills' dream apparently viable

Interesting stuff thanks

SMM







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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2011, 09:28:22 AM »
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As for wearing out canon lenses internals I can understand that in terms of a $100k camera package that could be considered a legitimate running cost .. and that you would not want to say that in public Smiley

S
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Graeme Nattress
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« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2011, 09:37:05 AM »
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Manual focus pulls are as smooth as the mechanics of the Canon lenses allow. I think you'd want a geared bit of focus pulling hardware to assist with that as the rotational range of the lenses as still lenses is a fraction of what is used on cinema lenses. I don't think we're giving manual control via the electronics for focus pulling - that's something I'll have to check into. I've only used the lenses with "push to focus" and lens manual focussing.

Graeme
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ChristopherBarrett
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« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2011, 11:25:34 AM »
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Graeme,

Ted showed us a programmed focus pull at Reducation using the Canon mount.  He set two points on the touchscreen and set the duration of the pull.  It was cool as Hell!  I believe that was a beta firmware and not currently enabled.

Or I was totally hallucinating, because who would believe a camera would be capable of this?

Canon focus motors?  I don't hear about the sports shooters wearing out motors and their lenses would be worked harder than cine applications.  

Manual focus pulls on Canon glass?  Meh, I've tried it on my 5d2 and the lens mechanics are just ok, zooming is unusable.  A Zeiss ZE would be a far better solution as those have buttery mechanisms.

And OH.... I do believe there will be manual control via electronic motors.... RedMote Pro  Smiley
« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 11:30:39 AM by CBarrett » Logged
Graeme Nattress
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« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2011, 12:22:30 PM »
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You could know more than me about it at this point!! I know I'm not up-to-date on the firmware, but the one I was testing the Canon mount on worked very well with the wide variety of lenses I could throw at it.

Graeme
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Bern Caughey
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« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2011, 01:19:03 PM »
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Manual focus pulls on Canon glass?  Meh, I've tried it on my 5d2 and the lens mechanics are just ok, zooming is unusable.  A Zeiss ZE would be a far better solution as those have buttery mechanisms.

These would require a 15mm rod, but should provide a smoother zoom. The Chroszeil even claims a fluid adjustment.

http://jag35.com/store.php/products/dzoom.html

www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/666195-REG/Chrosziel_AC_102_13_AC_102_13_DSLR_Fluid_Zoom.html

Alternatively Birns & Sawyer sell this Jar Opener for use as a zoom lever.

www.internetkitchenstore.com/zylissstrongboy.jpg
« Last Edit: September 20, 2011, 01:08:23 PM by Bern Caughey » Logged
fredjeang
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« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2011, 02:13:39 PM »
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Manual focus pulls on Canon glass?  Meh, I've tried it on my 5d2 and the lens mechanics are just ok,

A very diplomatic way Chris to not say "crap"


..., zooming is unusable.  A Zeiss ZE would be a far better solution as those have buttery mechanisms.

Couldn't agree more.

And OH.... I do believe there will be manual control via electronic motors.... RedMote Pro  Smiley

...and...very soon it will be remote controled via the I.phone  Roll Eyes you'll see.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 02:17:40 PM by fredjeang » Logged
ChristopherBarrett
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« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2011, 03:09:29 PM »
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You could know more than me about it at this point!!

We can excuse that, Graeme, given that you spend your days writing the best Raw code on the planet.
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Graeme Nattress
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« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2011, 03:25:01 PM »
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Come on, I took out the Epic and shot a mushroom today. If that's not using the full features of an Epic to it's full potential, I dunno what is :-)

Graeme
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bcooter
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« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2011, 03:48:22 PM »
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Graeme,

We've used our RED One's to great effect for stills, as long as the subject is waist up or closer and the shutter is 100th or faster.

(in fact we have about 20 retouched RED stills going into public release next month, all from the REd One mx).

Full length subjects in a horizontal frame then it becomes challanged, though useable, but I guess that should be expected given that's a leap for any small frame sensor in horizontal and given the fact the RED puts out a trillion bytes a second.

My first question, does the epic work better for pulling stills than a RED mx, given the fact the Epic is native 2:1 vs. the RED 16x9?

My second question.  Will any of the auto focus capabilities of the Canon mount transfer over to the RED One?

My third question.   When will the Epic have a Nikon mount?

Thx.

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 03:51:08 PM by bcooter » Logged
Graeme Nattress
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« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2011, 04:15:05 PM »
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Epic is more pixels all-round, so it's better for stills indeed, and the lower compression options can help for stills too, as does the HDRx mode. I don't think the R1 has the other hardware needed for us to run the Canon mount on it, and indeed the Epic was designed in mind for various mounts rather than the PL on the R1. When for the Nikon mount - not sure.

Graeme
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ChristopherBarrett
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« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2011, 04:35:04 PM »
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Nikon mount (electronic) ie predicted by Red (via RedUser) to ship in October.  Optitek offers a non-electronic Epic Nikon mount that has just begun shipping.  AllStar (who's mount I use on my R1) is supposed to be done with their Epic mount this month and will allow adapting glass from Nikon (including G Mount), Leica R, Contax Yashica and Mamiya + PL.

Electronic shutter / focus control of Canon lenses on the R1 have been done with the Birger mount with a wireless follow focus system.  Using this adapter, however, voids the Red warranty and I'm not sure if Birger is even producing them anymore.  I kinda doubt Red will offer one for the R1 with everything else they have on their plate.

Yeah, I spend too much time on RedUser.

Graeme, if I was going on a shroom trip I'd want it documented in 5k too!!!
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