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Author Topic: Where does Hasselblad sell all their traded-in gear?  (Read 11493 times)
John.Williams
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« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2011, 10:50:51 PM »
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Just had to provide another chuckle at the elephant - poor fellow is just looking for a few peanuts...

The used market really gets down to moving the equipment into the hands of a different economic layer; there are many more photographers who would like to shoot medium-format in the sub-$6000 range than sub-$10000 range. For all the same reasons - better color, better detail, better first-appearances with better camera, etc. They are willing to tolerate the few nicks and scratches and not the largest file size and will often trade-up within 12-24 months.

Where there are buyers, there are sellers.

When we execute a trade-in, in some cases, we can help the seller obtain a greater price for their equipment than the standard trade-in credit direct from Hasselblad; in other cases the trade-in credit is greater and it makes sense to take advantage of the trade-in offer.

Hasselblad then cleans and refurbishes those trade-in units that are feasible reconditioned models. Some units are beat up so badly, they are not suitable for re-release.

I'm not complaining, just reporting Smiley

John
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« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2011, 12:08:39 PM »
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Hi Nick, thought I'll jump in to say hi.

So you mean to say that the elephant actually can get it destroyed?

I can recall some other manufacturer trying hard to do this without much success.

 Wink

Best regards
Thierry

That other manufacturer, it doesn't start with an "S" or does it? Wink If it does, it better work a bit more with the software stability, if it wasn't for that I would STILL use it's products (they are better but....) Cry Cheers Theodoros.
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fotometria gr
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« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2011, 12:23:11 PM »
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Just had to provide another chuckle at the elephant - poor fellow is just looking for a few peanuts...

The used market really gets down to moving the equipment into the hands of a different economic layer; there are many more photographers who would like to shoot medium-format in the sub-$6000 range than sub-$10000 range. For all the same reasons - better color, better detail, better first-appearances with better camera, etc. They are willing to tolerate the few nicks and scratches and not the largest file size and will often trade-up within 12-24 months.

Where there are buyers, there are sellers.

When we execute a trade-in, in some cases, we can help the seller obtain a greater price for their equipment than the standard trade-in credit direct from Hasselblad; in other cases the trade-in credit is greater and it makes sense to take advantage of the trade-in offer.

Hasselblad then cleans and refurbishes those trade-in units that are feasible reconditioned models. Some units are beat up so badly, they are not suitable for re-release.

I'm not complaining, just reporting Smiley

John
I suppose that there is always an excuse behind a policy, I just hope that the new owners of the company will change that (IMO wrong) policy and: a)Offer the opportunity to more photographers to get to know the benefits of MF, by buying even cheaper than you state b)Open the system (as far as DB is concerned) to people that own different cameras. Cheers, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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TH_Alpa
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« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2011, 02:09:43 PM »
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Nope, it doens't start with an "S", Theodoros.

 Wink

But you probably know that I am not longer in this "S"-shaped boat since over 2 years. So I can't comment on the rest of your comment.

 Grin

Best regards
Thierry

That other manufacturer, it doesn't start with an "S" or does it? Wink If it does, it better work a bit more with the software stability, if it wasn't for that I would STILL use it's products (they are better but....) Cry Cheers Theodoros.
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Graham Welland
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« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2011, 03:02:22 PM »
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Rightly or wrongly I've been under the impression that the manufacturers had a vested interest in keeping the secondhand market relatively 'thin' by offering attractive trade-ins. By taking trade-in's out of the secondhand market they are able to keep residuals high and continue to generate new sales. The last thing you want when you introduce a new model is to flood the market with attractively priced secondhand gear that might take away from new sales - for example the latest Phase One IQ series has opened up the market for a reasonably large number of extremely good current specification backs (e.g. P+ series, Leaf II series etc etc) and you'd think that they have to be careful not to erode the new models with, say, an influx of lot's of pre-own P40+'s, P45+, P65+ backs. I'm sure the same is true with Hasselblad.

If I were the manufacturer, I might look very closely at culling the older backs. You have to wonder where all those earlier generation Phase, Hasselblad, Sinar, Kodak backs have gone because you certainly don't see many for sale any more.

Am I missing the plot?
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Graham
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« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2011, 04:57:25 PM »
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Nope, it doens't start with an "S", Theodoros.

 Wink

But you probably know that I am not longer in this "S"-shaped boat since over 2 years. So I can't comment on the rest of your comment.

 Grin

Best regards
Thierry

It must be really hard to have to try and defend a wrong policy...., I really understand and excuse David (and you ...in the past). Its something I feel I would never do....(defend a wrong policy...), ......not at the same parking where the elephant is in anyway. Lips sealed Best regards, Theodoros  www.fotometria.gr
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 05:01:43 PM by fotometria gr » Logged
JV
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« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2011, 05:53:50 PM »
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Rightly or wrongly I've been under the impression that the manufacturers had a vested interest in keeping the secondhand market relatively 'thin' by offering attractive trade-ins. By taking trade-in's out of the secondhand market they are able to keep residuals high and continue to generate new sales. The last thing you want when you introduce a new model is to flood the market with attractively priced secondhand gear that might take away from new sales - for example the latest Phase One IQ series has opened up the market for a reasonably large number of extremely good current specification backs (e.g. P+ series, Leaf II series etc etc) and you'd think that they have to be careful not to erode the new models with, say, an influx of lot's of pre-own P40+'s, P45+, P65+ backs. I'm sure the same is true with Hasselblad.

If I were the manufacturer, I might look very closely at culling the older backs. You have to wonder where all those earlier generation Phase, Hasselblad, Sinar, Kodak backs have gone because you certainly don't see many for sale any more.

Am I missing the plot?

Graham,

When you trade in a P30+ you get about $6.5K.  That same P30+ was until recently sold for about $10K.  Not too bad of a margin...

Joris.
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John.Williams
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« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2011, 03:08:05 AM »
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I suppose that there is always an excuse behind a policy, I just hope that the new owners of the company will change that (IMO wrong) policy and: a)Offer the opportunity to more photographers to get to know the benefits of MF, by buying even cheaper than you state b)Open the system (as far as DB is concerned) to people that own different cameras. Cheers, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr

Theodoros - not quite sure what you are asking/stating in a.), but I agree with get MF in more hands...

b.) open the system as far as DB is concerned;

I am amazed at how many photographers (including readers of this forum) who do not know Hasselblad continues to make digital backs.

The current series (CF) uses i-Adaptor plates to very quickly switch between Hasselblad H, Hasselblad V, Mamiya RZ, Mamiya RB, Fuji GX680, Contax 645, and Rollei 6008. I simply do not know a more "open system" than that - yet, despite all this openness, the buyers (read: the people who vote with their money) choose to purchase the integrated systems by an overwhelming percentage over digital backs.

Hasselblad is making a product (H2D/H3D/H4D) that photographers want to own much like Apple makes their products that consumers want to own for valid reasons; a smart manufacturer is going to make what people want to buy. That makes sense, right? We can see the results when companies ignore the buyers preferences, even in our own industry.

If you like the Hasselblad feel in your hands and happen to need an H-system that will support your brand of digital back, we have an H1 kit ready for purchase in stock & ready to go (including several other sources to readily obtain H1 and H2 bodies.)

I appreciate every opportunity to address the truth of the open system argument, it helps to educate everyone who cares to ask.

John
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John.Williams
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« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2011, 06:00:34 AM »
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The current series (CF) uses i-Adaptor plates to very quickly switch between Hasselblad H, Hasselblad V, Mamiya RZ, Mamiya RB, Fuji GX680, Contax 645, and Rollei 6008. I simply do not know a more "open system" than that - yet, despite all this openness, the buyers (read: the people who vote with their money) choose to purchase the integrated systems by an overwhelming percentage over digital backs.

Thanks to a good eye by a reader, I have been reminded that the CF digital backs were discontinued last month (August 1, 2011) with the CFV digital backs still in production.

Perhaps further evidence of where development effort is concentrated...

John
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« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2011, 12:42:51 PM »
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"a smart manufacturer is going to make what people want to buy. That makes sense, right?"

in a thread about digital backs i find that quite funny. Roll Eyes
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fotometria gr
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« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2011, 04:42:09 PM »
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Theodoros - not quite sure what you are asking/stating in a.), but I agree with get MF in more hands...

b.) open the system as far as DB is concerned;

I am amazed at how many photographers (including readers of this forum) who do not know Hasselblad continues to make digital backs.

The current series (CF) uses i-Adaptor plates to very quickly switch between Hasselblad H, Hasselblad V, Mamiya RZ, Mamiya RB, Fuji GX680, Contax 645, and Rollei 6008. I simply do not know a more "open system" than that - yet, despite all this openness, the buyers (read: the people who vote with their money) choose to purchase the integrated systems by an overwhelming percentage over digital backs.

Hasselblad is making a product (H2D/H3D/H4D) that photographers want to own much like Apple makes their products that consumers want to own for valid reasons; a smart manufacturer is going to make what people want to buy. That makes sense, right? We can see the results when companies ignore the buyers preferences, even in our own industry.

If you like the Hasselblad feel in your hands and happen to need an H-system that will support your brand of digital back, we have an H1 kit ready for purchase in stock & ready to go (including several other sources to readily obtain H1 and H2 bodies.)

I appreciate every opportunity to address the truth of the open system argument, it helps to educate everyone who cares to ask.

John
On a), I simply protest to the ....."destruction by an elephant" policy for older backs that are still worthwhile today, specially for the large frame 22mpx ones, that as you surely know, if you excuse resolution, can compete (at 50-100 iso) with todays ultra expensive backs in any other aspect of photography. I'm sure that the only reason they "buy" them back without returning them to the S/H market is to keep prices up! Take for instance my 528c, it would shell s/h for less than $5000 or 4000euro in europe, while it can give me a true color 88mpx image and I can copy a really large painting with it! On the other hand, I can use it on my Contax on 22mpx and do fashion or studio or landscape or anything else that with any of todays back, of any resolution, I wouldn't have more than 10% improvement! I'm sure that they try to fade them out of the market to force the photographers that need multishot to invest in a new zillion dollar system (you can imagine what it would cost to replace my back and my 3 bodies, screens, finders, backs -i still use some film- 11 lenses, -4 with adapter- ext.rings, etc.), that will never justify the investment.
 I won't comment on the second part of your quote, I saw on your next quote that you didn't know that they closed the system completely, so let's hope that the new owners will change that false and annoying to many customers policy. Cheers, Theodoros www.fotometria.gr
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fotometria gr
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« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2011, 05:06:01 PM »
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"a smart manufacturer is going to make what people want to buy. That makes sense, right?"

in a thread about digital backs i find that quite funny. Roll Eyes
Don't... There are many people that want a DB, but can't afford one! In fact that is (has turned to be) the subject in the thread, why do the manufacturers try to faze out the older backs from the S/H market, thus eliminating (IMO) MF completely. I think that their policy is SUICIDAL, because it's breaking newcomers from DSLRs to advance to MF, it's shrinking advanced technique and "photo-knowledge" and destroys the already existing huge base of MF photography (I mean older but very capable gear). Regards, Theodoros www.fotometria.gr
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 05:10:25 PM by fotometria gr » Logged
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« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2011, 05:30:02 PM »
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On a), I simply protest to the ....."destruction by an elephant" policy for older backs that are still worthwhile today, specially for the large frame 22mpx ones, that as you surely know, if you excuse resolution, can compete (at 50-100 iso) with todays ultra expensive backs in any other aspect of photography. I'm sure that the only reason they "buy" them back without returning them to the S/H market is to keep prices up! Take for instance my 528c, it would shell s/h for less than $5000 or 4000euro in europe, while it can give me a true color 88mpx image and I can copy a really large painting with it! On the other hand, I can use it on my Contax on 22mpx and do fashion or studio or landscape or anything else that with any of todays back, of any resolution, I wouldn't have more than 10% improvement! I'm sure that they try to fade them out of the market to force the photographers that need multishot to invest in a new zillion dollar system (you can imagine what it would cost to replace my back and my 3 bodies, screens, finders, backs -i still use some film- 11 lenses, -4 with adapter- ext.rings, etc.), that will never justify the investment.
 I won't comment on the second part of your quote, I saw on your next quote that you didn't know that they closed the system completely, so let's hope that the new owners will change that false and annoying to many customers policy. Cheers, Theodoros www.fotometria.gr

As a mentally unbalanced person totally, I think it was the only way for the Hasselblad. And I think That this road is correct. I'm talking of course about the integrated system.
When it comes to your DB, do not sell it, it is really very good equipment. Well unless you have a lot of money. But in this case, better to donate the equipment to some students, and the poor elephant will be free: P
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DF

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fotometria gr
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« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2011, 05:36:39 PM »
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As a mentally unbalanced person totally, I think it was the only way for the Hasselblad. And I think That this road is correct. I'm talking of course about the integrated system.
When it comes to your DB, do not sell it, it is really very good equipment. Well unless you have a lot of money. But in this case, better to donate the equipment to some students, and the poor elephant will be free: P
Why do you think it was the only way? and why do you agree? Please don't answer "to keep the Elephant buzzy".
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 05:43:01 PM by fotometria gr » Logged
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« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2011, 06:07:00 PM »
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Why do you think it was the only way? and why do you agree? Please don't answer "to keep the Elephant buzzy".

In my opinion, they would no longer exist today. Previous CEO was a genius. Arranged at a time: cutting off competition from his body and the brilliant conception of the equipment which has set the direction of development of this market. As you can see all the rest also walks this path. From the user at first glance, this seems a stupid idea - closed system - but the benefits are considerable. Better integration of hardware at the level of the lens - body - DB. Hence - the equipment is easier to use, gives better quality -  frontfocus and BACKFOCUS virtually non existent. (calibrated body and DB), DAC. It's really a big quantum leap. And I mean not only the quality of the image itself. When it comes to trade-in policy. Well it is not well conceived. It is not clear to me, inconsistent. In some cases, contradicts the idea of ​​this program.
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DF

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« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2011, 08:00:51 PM »
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Hasselblad, Leica and Pentax are all closed systems.  Phase is in theory open but the reality is that everybody uses Phase or Leaf backs... The market for standalone digital backs will shrink.  Hasselblad H1/H2 and Contax 645 backs will eventually go away.  Hy6 is a question mark.  For standalone digital back manufacturers that leaves long term only a very small niche market consisting of Hasselblad V and tech cameras...  Given that Hasselblad already addresses those with their CFV backs it is no wonder that they discontinued the CF backs.  Unfortunate but understandable.
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2011, 10:19:19 PM »
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Graham,

When you trade in a P30+ you get about $6.5K.  That same P30+ was until recently sold for about $10K.  Not too bad of a margin...

Joris.


Well, depends on what you trade up to.

$13,637 - P30+ credit towards IQ180
$11,467 - P30+ credit towards IQ160
$6,817 - P30+ credit towards IQ140
$9,917 - P30+ credit towards Aptus-II 80
$8,057 - P30+ credit towards Aptus-II 56


Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
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MFDB: Phase One/Leaf-Mamiya/Hasselblad/Leica/Sinar
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« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2011, 10:20:55 PM »
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Finally!   Grin


I didn't find this snippy at all, and in fact I laughed my ass off!


Steve Hendrix
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fotometria gr
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« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2011, 02:34:09 AM »
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In my opinion, they would no longer exist today. Previous CEO was a genius. Arranged at a time: cutting off competition from his body and the brilliant conception of the equipment which has set the direction of development of this market. As you can see all the rest also walks this path. From the user at first glance, this seems a stupid idea - closed system - but the benefits are considerable. Better integration of hardware at the level of the lens - body - DB. Hence - the equipment is easier to use, gives better quality -  frontfocus and BACKFOCUS virtually non existent. (calibrated body and DB), DAC. It's really a big quantum leap. And I mean not only the quality of the image itself. When it comes to trade-in policy. Well it is not well conceived. It is not clear to me, inconsistent. In some cases, contradicts the idea of ​​this program.
In my view a MF system is all about interchangeability and flexibility that results from such an approach, I feel that this has been the traditional value (along with image size) that gave MF the status it had until it started fading with the rise of the digital age. I clearly don't see the competition following the same path with Has, they offer the same backs for all  cameras, doing the same things as their own cameras. I feel that even the V system is on a different path than the H system and that this shows confusion of company policy. I know many users of the V system that are using different maker backs on their system and most of them despise the H system. In fact I feel that their decision to stop supporting the rest of the cameras with the CFs is an unexplainable decision that can be of only harm to the company. I also feel that if Nikon will come up with the interchangeable sensor D3 replacement that is rumored, MF (starting with Has) is in real trouble. This can be avoided if they would give customers the opportunity to purchase a cheep, older S/H back ....instead of providing to the Elephant a new toy to make the poor animal happy!  Regards Theodoros www.fotometria.gr
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John R Smith
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« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2011, 02:54:50 AM »
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The strength of MF cameras has always been that they are part of a system - with the notable exception of the Rolleiflex TLRs. But the others - Hasselblad, Mamiya, Bronica, Contax and the later Rolleis - started with the cube that is the camera. You then had a case of lenses, finders, magazines, bellows and so forth from which you built the camera you needed for that day's particular task. The size of your case of bits was limited only by desire, need and the size of your wallet.

This concept was, and is, a brilliant one. Hasselblad were the first and most accomplished exponents of the system camera, but others soon followed. In recent years we have seen the gradual erosion and abandonment of these principles, which is why a lot of folks hang on to their old Hasselblad V-system or Contax gear. Closed digital systems and cameras (which can no longer shoot film) with only a prism finder are yet another nail in the coffin for MF in general, or at least MF as I understand it. Because very soon 35mm format DSLRs will be just as competent in terms of image quality, and the advantages which MF truly had will have been pissed away in the wind.

John
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