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Author Topic: Develop step "editing"?  (Read 2652 times)
dreed
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« on: September 18, 2011, 05:44:56 PM »
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Is it possible to edit the order in which the develop steps are listed on the left?

Or to delete individual steps that are in the middle of the "develop order"?
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Schewe
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« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2011, 05:47:36 PM »
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No...why would you want to?
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dreed
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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2011, 07:35:45 AM »
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For example ...

If I apply a bunch of develop settings on import, after doing later edits, I may wish to see the photo without the template changes but with the later work on it that I've done.

To be more concrete, I often use "Auto Tone" to get a feel for the photo, then start adjusting but the catch is that undoing what the "Auto Tone" does isn't trivial, I'd prefer to just remove it ... why do I want to remove the "Auto Tone"? Because I don't know exactly what it's done...

In other situations, sometimes I'll forget to add "Lens Adjustment" until late and then decide that I want to remove a colour adjustment that I applied before the "Lens Adjustment" (or similar.) I want to keep the profile or manual lens adjustment but just remove the saturation/hue change that I made early on. In this case, doing the inverse of the earlier adjustment works but it clutters up the "develop history" (or steps.)
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Schewe
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« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2011, 11:33:14 AM »
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If I apply a bunch of develop settings on import, after doing later edits, I may wish to see the photo without the template changes but with the later work on it that I've done.

And that's not the way Lightroom's history was designed. It's designed to literally track each and every step that was done to an image.
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dreed
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« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2011, 05:25:16 PM »
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And that's not the way Lightroom's history was designed. It's designed to literally track each and every step that was done to an image.

During the develop process, I view the history as something more akin to a recipe, albeit that I can also later record when a photograph is imported, exported, etc (whichI'll admit is kind of odd for a recipe.)

I can see that the purpose of the history could be ... diminished if (for example), you removed a step after doing a export because it would no longer reflect the steps taken to do the export... it would be nice if the recipe could be recorded in the jpeg!

But with the way it currently works, I can export a file and then select (click on) any previous step in the history and then "save", at which point every step after the one I selected is lost (including the export.) So whilst I can't currently delete a specific step from the history, I can effect a permanent "unwind" to any specific point. So my view on being able to rearrange the ordering of steps or delete a particular step isn't a big leap from that... or at least not in my mind :*)
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Schewe
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« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2011, 05:38:36 PM »
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So my view on being able to rearrange the ordering of steps or delete a particular step isn't a big leap from that... or at least not in my mind :*)

Actually, it's a huge leap...it's flies directly in the face of the way history was designed. It's not a "recipe" by any stretch of the imagination...LR already has multiple ways of storing and applying presets and you can always use snapshots to create alternative renderings. You can even make a virtual copy which when done will spawn of it's own history separate from the original file (at least to changes made after the creation of the VC).

But going into an images history and combining or editing history steps just ain't gonna happen.
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aduke
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« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2011, 06:12:51 PM »
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If the definition of "recipe" is the list of currently used settings, this can be obtained by saving metadata to file, then examining the .xmp file with a text editor. There a number of ways to transfer a recipe from one file to other files, if that has some purpose.

Alan
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Rusty
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« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2011, 09:51:29 PM »
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It sounds to me that the OP wants to be able to drag edits up or down the history pile or pull one out and delete it. There are workarounds, virtual copies being one, possibly snapshots another, but other than "auto" adjustments what's the issue? Almost any adjustment of a raw file can be edited after the fact.
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pflower
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« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2011, 05:15:08 AM »
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It is a little annoying that you can't delete a single history state without deleting all states subsequent to it.  But there is a clumsy way around it - make a virtual copy at the state prior to the state you want to delete and then copy all the other settings from the original and paste into the virtual copy.  It isn't perfect since what appears in the history states is simply "copy settings" and not the discrete steps.

It would be nice to be able to delete single states or turn them off without affecting the other states, but I have no idea if that would be possible to implement.
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2011, 07:49:23 AM »
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If the definition of "recipe" is the list of currently used settings, this can be obtained by saving metadata to file, then examining the .xmp file with a text editor. There a number of ways to transfer a recipe from one file to other files, if that has some purpose.

Alan
Quite right.  Just open an .xmp file in Notepad (for Win users) and scroll down and you will see all of your edits in order.  I would presume that it would be easy enough for Adobe to implement a way to delete just one edit direction rather than the current method that erases every direction subsequent.  It may be that the user community has found no real need for such a tool and as noted, there are a number of other tools that allow one to do different changes to the same RAW image for comparison purposes.  Perhaps Eric Chan will see this thread and provide some thoughts of his own.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2011, 09:47:38 AM »
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It is a little annoying that you can't delete a single history state without deleting all states subsequent to it...

Seems to me that you guys would walk into a vegetarian restaurant and complain about... lack of meat on the menu? Wink
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Slobodan

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stamper
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« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2011, 10:53:20 AM »
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Seems to me that you guys would walk into a vegetarian restaurant and complain about... lack of meat on the menu? Wink

Is that what you call a verbal hand grenade?  Wink
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meyerweb
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« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2011, 11:49:17 AM »
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It is a little annoying that you can't delete a single history state without deleting all states subsequent to it. 

It would be nice to be able to delete single states or turn them off without affecting the other states, but I have no idea if that would be possible to implement.

I don't generally spend a lot of time at DPR, but I'm trying to learn about LR everywhere I can, so I've been scanning over there, too, and ran across an interesting and similar thread. Assuming this is correct:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1006&message=39390998

there's no need to delete anything from the history, unless you just want the history list to be smaller.  For example, say you apply +10 to Exposure, do a bunch of other edits, and then decide you want to "delete" the exposure change.  Just grab the slider and drag it back to where it started (or to any other setting you want). LR applies the FINAL exposure setting, the end result of however many times you adjust it. The history will show both the +10 and the later -10, but the net effect is the same as if you had never made the change, or made it and deleted it.

Quote
LR doesn't apply edits in your order - it merges all the edits and applies them in an unspecified order. Increasing a control and then reducing it repeatedly isn't applying multiple changes, which might reduce image quality. LR simply works out the end effect and applies that.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2011, 12:49:34 PM »
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... the catch is that undoing what the "Auto Tone" does isn't trivial... Because I don't know exactly what it's done...

How about hitting the option key (on a Mac), which turns the "Tone" button into a "Reset Tone" one, and clicking on it? Sounds pretty trivial to me.

Besides, there is nothing secret what "Auto Tone" does: it affects only the tone panel, i.e., Exposure, Recovery, Fill Light, Blacks, Brightness, and Contrast. If you want to reset only one or two of those sliders, just double-click on the slider (triangle). Again, pretty trivial.
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Slobodan

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madmanchan
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« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2011, 01:02:01 PM »
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As noted earlier, the best way to "undo" a step in the middle is to reset or adjust the relevant slider. For example, if somewhere in the middle of your edit history you decided to apply a post crop vignette and then later decide you don't want it, just visit the Effects panel and turn off post crop vignette. Your other edits won't be affected.
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dreed
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« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2011, 01:49:08 PM »
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How about hitting the option key (on a Mac), which turns the "Tone" button into a "Reset Tone" one, and clicking on it? Sounds pretty trivial to me.

Because that resets everything, not just tone. Try it out.

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Besides, there is nothing secret what "Auto Tone" does: it affects only the tone panel, i.e., Exposure, Recovery, Fill Light, Blacks, Brightness, and Contrast. If you want to reset only one or two of those sliders, just double-click on the slider (triangle). Again, pretty trivial.

The "double click" on the slider also undoes any other change that has been made to it.

Then there's the fact that there's nothing in the History that connects the "Contrast -28" to the "Auto Tone" below it.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2011, 01:58:55 PM »
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The "double click" on the slider also undoes any other change that has been made to it.

As did the last setting you made there prior to this double click. There is only one setting in effect at anytime. You have a slider set for -28, then set it for -15, the -28 setting is long gone. Double click just sets it to the zero/default (+25 for Contrast).
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Andrew Rodney
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2011, 02:42:43 PM »
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Because that resets everything, not just tone. Try it out...

Please. Do your homework and see what LR considers as "Tone".

Hint: "Tone" is a panel, comprising six parameters (I guess that would be what you consider "everything"... there is no such thing as a "Tone" slider). Of course resetting it resets "everything" (i.e., the six parameters). That is the idea. One click to set it ALL to "Auto", one click to reset it ALL.
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Slobodan

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dreed
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« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2011, 08:12:23 PM »
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Please. Do your homework and see what LR considers as "Tone".

Hint: "Tone" is a panel, comprising six parameters (I guess that would be what you consider "everything"... there is no such thing as a "Tone" slider). Of course resetting it resets "everything" (i.e., the six parameters). That is the idea. One click to set it ALL to "Auto", one click to reset it ALL.

Ok, since you insist...

I tried it out and it doesn't matter what the double click does or doesn't do as it doesn't do what I want and nor is it the means to achieve what I'm looking for.
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stamper
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« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2011, 04:45:34 AM »
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Do you have any books on LR? Personally I am an ACR user which is basically the same. A good book will start you on the right road to a good workflow and a positive way of thinking.

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I tried it out and it doesn't matter what the double click does or doesn't do as it doesn't do what I want and nor is it the means to achieve what I'm looking for.

unquote

You will have to adjust to what the program does because it won't do what you want it to do. Possibly the worst thing you can do is to stop using LR and try another program because none of them are perfect. I don't find your problem a problem because if I find that a an adjustment isn't right I start over again with a fresh mind. Same in PS. I don't save images with layers so that I can tweak them later, I just start over again.
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