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Author Topic: H2&P45+ or H4d-40?  (Read 9945 times)
John.Williams
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« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2011, 11:18:01 AM »
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We have a feature story where the entire shoot was in studio tethered using Phocus; see the front page for details.

It is significantly misleading to broad swipe the capture application from an opinion of personal viewpoint, so it is good to get information from a portfolio of experience on the board.

I have experienced Phocus crashes with under-powered laptops using video cards that cannot process the graphics processing, loose FireWire cables that cause data stream interruption, and the occasional who-knows-what-just-happened. Like design freak, all code will give fits at some point.

Most of my experience with Phocus is trouble-free. How?

Implement best practices, use a good computer, use a good FireWire cable that is secured from movement especially at the computer FireWire interface, and when a reboot is necessary, confirm the camera reboots as well by removing the cable and power cycle.

Then shoot!

You can see the Phocus application in several videos, like the Ferrari shoot in Victor magazine, and our live-video demonstration by AKEL Studios as a reference.

John
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« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2011, 11:56:29 AM »
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I'm sorry but I do not believe in such fairy tales. Each program crashes, sooner or later. The question of how often it does.
+1 From experience I can say that "Sinar Captureshop" is the most unstable, otherwise Sinar has the best backs around (best construction, cooling, interchangeability etc.)... a pitty. If they will resolve the problem I will be their most dedicated customer.... Com'n you guys in Sinar. Cheers Theodoros, www.fotometria.gr
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Nick-T
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« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2011, 02:40:52 PM »
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Nick,

how should I interpret these 2 stops?  Does it mean that up till 1600 ISO is usable on the H4D-40 compared to 400 ISO for the P30+/H3D-31?  

Thanks, Joris.

Yes that was pretty much my take, the H4D40 has a 2 stop advantage (Maybe 1.5 if being cautious) over the 31 products (H3d31/P30+).
Nick-T
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« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2011, 03:16:32 PM »
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Yes that was pretty much my take, the H4D40 has a 2 stop advantage (Maybe 1.5 if being cautious) over the 31 products (H3d31/P30+).
Nick-T

Those iso results are extremely impressive! Do the larger backs in the hassy line have the same specs?

It's a pity you are stuck with a hassy system with this back- I don't like the lenses, and you have to use theirs.

Paul
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fotometria gr
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« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2011, 04:13:44 PM »
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Yes that was pretty much my take, the H4D40 has a 2 stop advantage (Maybe 1.5 if being cautious) over the 31 products (H3d31/P30+).
Nick-T
OTH I feel that MF Iso advantage has never been an attraction for MF users (traditionally), personally I never liked the P31+ because its base Iso is starting from 100, I always preferred the P25+ which other than its 50 Iso had a nearly FF sensor. IMO and traditionally, low light photography is best done with a DSLR or 35mm in the past and the same applies to action. There, the considerably faster lenses helps even more by another couple of stops and even more so because of lower size/weight. After all, the idea behind MF is its extreme IQ when it performs at its best which of course is its lowest Iso. Most of the times the cost of purchasing a MFDB that performs well at higher ISOs, is more than to purchase an equally impressive back at base iso AND a DSLR that will at higher ISOs perform much better and do even more tasks than any MFDB! Now if somebody just adds the flexibility of having two systems... QED! In my approach to photography I always bought equipment that "absolutely perform" than "absolute performance", ....but thats only me. Regards Theodoros, www.fotometria.gr
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Bernhard
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« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2011, 05:03:23 PM »
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Stay away from Hassy and P1. the H1 and H2 bodies in the used marked are getting old and will start to fail on you. I've had my H2 body sent so many time to Sweden I can't even count. It's now in repair for a new mirror motor drive. I also had a local repair store replace the shutter button with a Canon one

But... P45+ is really good and capture one is the best tool to work with, and combined with Media pro it will be better once P1 makes a better integration with these 2 programs.

The Fuji Lenses are very good, not as sharp as the new schneider lenses for P1 though!

Happy shopping

best

Bernhard Kristinn
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John.Williams
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« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2011, 09:14:00 PM »
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The service life on the H-system is around 100,000 captures; then it needs servicing. The moving parts are the mirror and the rear curtain. Rest of it is solid state electronics, so if kept with the same care as a mobile phone, will last for another round before servicing again.

The eyecup also needs the occasional replacement but that is something I consider to be within the aspect of normal wear and tear. The Hasselblad body is made from durable materials (body stainless steel, outer shells aluminum) and designed to last.

So I professionally disagree with Bernhard, who is entitled to his personal opinion from his experience, I would not "stay away from used H1 and H2", but I would recommend sending the body to a local Hasselblad service center for check-to-spec service (about $150 here in US.)

The Hasselblad H1 and H2 systems receive firmware upgrades that update with modern features to make your investment last...whether you are the first owner or a new owner of a used system.

I suggest these to be important points that should be considered along with the subjective opinions of peers, because these affect your personal budget and your personal brand when you walk into the view of your clients. The brand Hasselblad is powerful and pervasive. The equipment represents quality.

Look for yourself, this is one tough cookie:




John

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jay_dub@mac.com
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« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2011, 02:47:58 AM »
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The service life on the H-system is around 100,000 captures; then it needs servicing. The moving parts are the mirror and the rear curtain. Rest of it is solid state electronics, so if kept with the same care as a mobile phone, will last for another round before servicing again.

The eyecup also needs the occasional replacement but that is something I consider to be within the aspect of normal wear and tear. The Hasselblad body is made from durable materials (body stainless steel, outer shells aluminum) and designed to last.

So I professionally disagree with Bernhard, who is entitled to his personal opinion from his experience, I would not "stay away from used H1 and H2", but I would recommend sending the body to a local Hasselblad service center for check-to-spec service (about $150 here in US.)

The Hasselblad H1 and H2 systems receive firmware upgrades that update with modern features to make your investment last...whether you are the first owner or a new owner of a used system.

I suggest these to be important points that should be considered along with the subjective opinions of peers, because these affect your personal budget and your personal brand when you walk into the view of your clients. The brand Hasselblad is powerful and pervasive. The equipment represents quality.

Look for yourself, this is one tough cookie:




John



The photo appears the car body. Very modern design, very robust, modern materials. If we visit a scrap yard, we realize that this element is not that we decide to give our vehicle to the scrap yard Wink

Joke
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DF

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JV
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« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2011, 12:16:37 PM »
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Yes that was pretty much my take, the H4D40 has a 2 stop advantage (Maybe 1.5 if being cautious) over the 31 products (H3d31/P30+).
Nick-T

Impressive.  I mostly shoot indoors but natural light.  Perhaps not important for other people but for me the two additional stops would be a big thing. 
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design_freak
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« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2011, 03:31:40 AM »
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We have a feature story where the entire shoot was in studio tethered using Phocus; see the front page for details.

It is significantly misleading to broad swipe the capture application from an opinion of personal viewpoint, so it is good to get information from a portfolio of experience on the board.

I have experienced Phocus crashes with under-powered laptops using video cards that cannot process the graphics processing, loose FireWire cables that cause data stream interruption, and the occasional who-knows-what-just-happened. Like design freak, all code will give fits at some point.

Most of my experience with Phocus is trouble-free. How?

Implement best practices, use a good computer, use a good FireWire cable that is secured from movement especially at the computer FireWire interface, and when a reboot is necessary, confirm the camera reboots as well by removing the cable and power cycle.

Then shoot!

You can see the Phocus application in several videos, like the Ferrari shoot in Victor magazine, and our live-video demonstration by AKEL Studios as a reference.

John

I have a few observations:
1st If the camera was well designed (FW port is the weakest link of this design - its location, execute) the user does not have to buy additional accessories such thetherlock
2nd I do not like when someone tries to explain that it was certainly your fault (hardware, bad practice). Of course I agree that in many cases is the fault of the user (the reasons you mentioned), but unfortunately a large fault lies with the same hardware and software. If someone tried to use the SDK (Phocus) knows what I say.

H4D40 - this is a good camera, even very good. But as the system creates more problems than PhaseOne system. Just hire more high-end programmers. If this element is fixed, it will be a good piece of equipment. As we know, each system is as strong as the weakest link.




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gigdagefg
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« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2011, 09:25:28 AM »
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Phocus does not crash.I use it extensively on a daily basis.

Stanley
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fotometria gr
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« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2011, 10:21:47 AM »
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Phocus does not crash.I use it extensively on a daily basis.

Stanley
It hasn't crash on me either, but "Design Freak" is right, every program crashes sooner or later.... (sooner THAN later if its Sinar Captureshop). Cheers, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2011, 04:06:06 PM »
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Phocus does not crash.I use it extensively on a daily basis.

Stanley

Pure statistics, the more you work the more times you're exposed to it. Little work, you can never experience it  Roll Eyes
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John.Williams
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« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2011, 01:52:10 PM »
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over 40 hours shooting last month; various Hasselblad cameras 2005 to 2011, no crashes...the devil you know is better than the devil you don't...

The message for photographers who are shooting with Phocus:
  • Use it on an appropriate computer with minimum (or better) specifications; pay special attention to the VRAM on the video card since Phocus uses OpenGL commands for display.
  • Use common sense to keep cable secure on computer end, the camera end is fairly tight and secure - much more so than the Firewire port on the computer.
  • Finish shoot and process

Bringing the conversation back to the initial question of H2 + P45+ or H4D-40; the Hasselblad magazine has a Firewire 800 connector for cable planning purposes...

Stay Creative! Challenge the status quo & question everything...

John
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« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2011, 04:58:28 PM »
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Bringing the conversation back to the initial question of H2 + P45+ or H4D-40; the Hasselblad magazine has a Firewire 800 connector for cable planning purposes...

Stay Creative! Challenge the status quo & question everything...

John
Well John... you know my opinion on "closed systems" from the other thread we both participated (the one with the ....Elephant). This is the only reason I would suggest "not a MF DSLR"! Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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design_freak
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« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2011, 06:43:18 PM »
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over 40 hours shooting last month; various Hasselblad cameras 2005 to 2011, no crashes...the devil you know is better than the devil you don't...

The message for photographers who are shooting with Phocus:
  • Use it on an appropriate computer with minimum (or better) specifications; pay special attention to the VRAM on the video card since Phocus uses OpenGL commands for display.
  • Use common sense to keep cable secure on computer end, the camera end is fairly tight and secure - much more so than the Firewire port on the computer.
  • Finish shoot and process

Bringing the conversation back to the initial question of H2 + P45+ or H4D-40; the Hasselblad magazine has a Firewire 800 connector for cable planning purposes...

Stay Creative! Challenge the status quo & question everything...

John


I also possessed multiple cameras, in the fall after my grandmother got a model 500 - neither my grandmother nor I - nothing ever crashed. My X-pan as well. Everything works stable Cheesy
But now seriously: 40 hours a month, what for me is 4 sessions (4 days). I worked very hard over the past 5 years. This is what I write is backed by extensive experience I have gained in previous jobs. I know this stuff inside out. I know the pros and cons of this equipment. I'll write it again - the biggest drawback of this camera is a firewire port. Without theterlock - can not work hard. (After intensive work without theterlock - you land in the service) When it comes to cables, you can check out my recommendations on this board for just the selection of high quality cables. (I tested all possible cables) I am a person with high technical culture. So you do not need me as a layman to explain what to do. If only we all wanted to take pictures on the CF card - it would be perfect. Unfortunately, we all want to connect a cable to your computer. And in my opinion in this area P1 beats Hasselblad. P1/C1 is much more resistant to extreme situations. (With the same equipment - P1 works with almost no problem for the whole day, while the Hasselblad is suspended 5 times)  Although the equipment meets all requirements (desktop) , we can say is that even well above those requirements. If the OP will be photographed reproductions - I recommend him Hasselblad equipment. But for intensive work -  I recommended P1 system.

Ps.
I have read about Thunderbolt on Hot Wire. I am impressed. After a time someone woke up, that is the technology. And I wrote about it to them long before this technology came to light ...

Greetings
DF

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« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2011, 10:28:11 PM »
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Contrary to the experience that DF had, a few months ago I put together a clothing catalog with over 1500 items and at least 4 colors (usually more) on each item. The total number  of images published was over 7,000 images, and some images were shot  over and over until the art director approved of the lighting and composition of each item. We were thrilled that Phocus never crashed; we used the standard cables that I think were delivered with the camera. The latest version of Phocus does not crash

Stanley
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« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2011, 11:22:25 AM »
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Well, when you know the history about DF and Hasselblad, you will read his posts about Hasselblad with that in mind .-).

Maybe, I say maybe, he is a little biased ( in a negative way )

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Willow Photography
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« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2011, 12:14:49 PM »
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javascript:void(0);
Well, when you know the history about DF and Hasselblad, you will read his posts about Hasselblad with that in mind .-).

Maybe, I say maybe, he is a little biased ( in a negative way )


I'm not DF but I got really upset from your provocative quote. Shocked DF has NEVER EVER said that phocus crashes! Huh You've put that on his mouth! Angry He only said that ANY PROGRAM CRASHES SOONER OR LATER! Tongue That action (with no motive whatsoever) of yours AND OF "gigdagefg" (where do you people find those.... names(?)) Roll Eyes, demands an apology! Lips sealed Cheers (well.. not really), Mr. (for you and gigdagefg only) Theodoros, Kiss www.fotometria.gr
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« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2011, 12:54:53 PM »
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How can facts be biased?  Huh
 But the post of OP is a kind of provocation. I am quite confident about the next person that is substituted by Hasselblad to use the free advertising. Besides, there are many people who practically did not exist in this forum.  I believe that this is not the way to success. It should just start producing more and better equipment, marketing is not everything. Why did he ask what to choose, since he already has chosen equipment? (OP) What was revealed at the beginning of this thread. And who is biased here.

Best regards,
DF
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Best regards,
DF

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