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Author Topic: H2&P45+ or H4d-40?  (Read 8926 times)
jduncan
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« Reply #80 on: October 05, 2011, 06:41:54 AM »
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I can believe that a corporation could have that bad communication skills.  The note borders the lack of respect for users.
This leave the user speculating about what is going on. The new group the owns hasselblad has not release a format letter of commitment. Looks like hassyusa.com is dead, and there is the new partnership with adobe (good by itself).

Maybe is really a patent dispute, or a cost optimizing measure or other. I don't know, but they need to improve the communication skills.

Best regards,

J. Duncan
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ondebanks
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« Reply #81 on: October 05, 2011, 09:38:18 AM »
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Sensor first. The Kodak 39 chip is a good chip and with Phase's implementation you can shoot up to an hour, but do note you will then need to shoot another one hour exposure for a black frame to calculate out noise specific to that exposure.

The 40 is also a Kodak but microlensed, this means you get better ISO performance than the 39 but may cause problems on tech cameras (not that the OP asked about that)

The 40 is a much newer generation chip I would guess 5 years newer than the 39 (Steve is this right?)

I have compared the 40 with the 31 and it is much better (I own a 31) apparently the 40 has better dies making for better colours.

I think the Kodak KAF-40000 is about 4 years newer than the KAF-39000, but who's quibbling. Wink

The great pity is that while Hasselblad has the better sensor in the KAF-40000 (higher signal Q.E., lower readnoise, and in particular, 4-5 times lower darknoise), they are not fully exploiting it. Limiting the longest exposure to 256 seconds is a mistake (and why is it even necessary to have this limit?). If this sensor was in the hands of PhaseOne, their Xpose+ long exposure technology would make multi-hour exposures possible.

Great pity #2 is that PhaseOne, like Leaf and Sinar, now seem wedded to Dalsa; and I fear there won't ever be a KAF-40000 (or better) long-exposure capable MF sensor that I can put behind my Mamiya 645 glass.

From what I've seen and read, Pentax have delivered the ability to take clean, arbitrarily long exposures with the KAF-40000 in their 645D - well done Pentax! But M645 lenses can't be adapted to the P645 and still focus to infinity.

What's so great about Mamiya lenses? Can't I just switch platform to get the sensor I want? Well, I don't think it was mentioned in this thread, but for some shooters the big downside of the Hasselblad system is the limited range and speed of the lenses. There's no full-frame 645 fisheye, no f2.8 wideangles, no f2.8 APO teles, no lens longer than 300mm, no zoom beyond 110mm, no soft focus. Adaptable lenses are limited to Hasselblad V ones with leaf shutter; they are even slower than the H lenses, but they do at least extend the range to 500mm and 30mm (fisheye on 6x6).  Pentax also falls short in the lens stakes, but much less so. Many ranges of lenses can be adapted to the Pentax, but even more can be adapted to the Mamiya (including, indeed, the Pentax ones!)

Right, mission accomplished - I've sent this thread into a "Who's going to give Mamiya users a 6-micron long exposure DB?" direction.   Cool

Ray
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fotometria gr
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« Reply #82 on: October 05, 2011, 12:08:36 PM »
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I can believe that a corporation could have that bad communication skills.  The note borders the lack of respect for users.
This leave the user speculating about what is going on. The new group the owns hasselblad has not release a format letter of commitment. Looks like hassyusa.com is dead, and there is the new partnership with adobe (good by itself).

Maybe is really a patent dispute, or a cost optimizing measure or other. I don't know, but they need to improve the communication skills.

Best regards,

J. Duncan

+1. I'm sure they will..., nobody buys something to lose money... does he? Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
 P.S. "Listen to the customers" has been to proved to be the only safe way for every company...
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Nick-T
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« Reply #83 on: October 05, 2011, 04:39:22 PM »
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I think the Kodak KAF-40000 is about 4 years newer than the KAF-39000, but who's quibbling. Wink


Thanks for the correction.

Quote
The great pity is that while Hasselblad has the better sensor in the KAF-40000 (higher signal Q.E., lower readnoise, and in particular, 4-5 times lower darknoise), they are not fully exploiting it. Limiting the longest exposure to 256 seconds is a mistake (and why is it even necessary to have this limit?).

I agree Hasselblad are very conservative in this area. Their mantra is "we will not enable ISO/ long exposure beyond point 'X' because it is not up to quality 'Y' " I have told them on several occasions that users would rather be the judge of what quality 'X' is..

Nick-T
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John.Williams
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« Reply #84 on: October 05, 2011, 08:29:57 PM »
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+1. I'm sure they will..., nobody buys something to lose money... does he? Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
 P.S. "Listen to the customers" has been to proved to be the only safe way for every company...

My mentors have brought me to the front of the room when I have been willing to stand on my position as passionately as you Fotometria.

I pause to wonder, what is your purpose here? I hope it is to bring your collective experience, but perhaps I am the optimist. It is my personal duty to extend my mentors lessons to any who will listen.

If one previals to cast the solution to all that ails, then he must accept the responsibility of knowing the way and providing the solution. There will be roughly 500 families counting on your leadership skills - are you willing to accept that burden in your remedy? To have all the answers to all the questions that may arise?

Many hard working people are bringing their best effort to a set of tools that bring unprecedented opportunities for creative minds and hands; I personally know many of these people and their craftsmanship that brings the best to market (not just Hasselblad, but also PhaseOne, Alpa, Leaf, and Sinar.)

Please consider your comments carefully and not in haste; I believe you may feel differently if you knew the "Company" was not some imaginary callous team of raiders that your commentary suggests. The "Company" as the subject of your visceral challenges on a daily basis is comprised of people and creatives that you would most likely enjoy a cold beverage, talk of family, and debate topics of photography in a relaxed manner beyond the characters of the distant text in your posts.

If you feel that you have been wronged, then state it and be done with it.

Life is way too short to carry that much vinegar. Look to the bigger picture if happiness is a goal.

John

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jay_dub@mac.com
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« Reply #85 on: October 06, 2011, 05:35:20 AM »
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John,
You're a virtuoso of the pen  Smiley
I am very curious whether you are more of a journalist, a PR specialist or engineer. Anyway I am very impressed with your work.

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DF

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design_freak
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« Reply #86 on: October 06, 2011, 06:25:41 AM »
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To answer the original post, I feel the H system offers far more options than the P45 combo, such as True Focus and the HTS, among other features. I like an integrated system, Hasselblad support has been there for me, including Steve when he was an H-man. I will also add that the H lens line up is superb. You can't go wrong. In fact, if you went with an H2 and a film back, as I did for a number of years, you'd be able to produce incredible results, trust me. Good luck.

Kind regards,
Derek Jecxz
www.jecxz.com


Do you have a company logo tattooed on your arm?  Grin
Do you think, if a manufacturer batch "kindybal" to your camera it will mean that this camera will be better than another?
 

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DF

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David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #87 on: October 06, 2011, 07:09:05 AM »
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Do you have a company logo tattooed on your arm?  Grin
Do you think, if a manufacturer batch "kindybal" to your camera it will mean that this camera will be better than another?


Anyone else not know what a Kindybal is?  Huh
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David Grover
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fotometria gr
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« Reply #88 on: October 06, 2011, 07:24:15 AM »
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My mentors have brought me to the front of the room when I have been willing to stand on my position as passionately as you Fotometria.

I pause to wonder, what is your purpose here? I hope it is to bring your collective experience, but perhaps I am the optimist. It is my personal duty to extend my mentors lessons to any who will listen.

If one previals to cast the solution to all that ails, then he must accept the responsibility of knowing the way and providing the solution. There will be roughly 500 families counting on your leadership skills - are you willing to accept that burden in your remedy? To have all the answers to all the questions that may arise?

Many hard working people are bringing their best effort to a set of tools that bring unprecedented opportunities for creative minds and hands; I personally know many of these people and their craftsmanship that brings the best to market (not just Hasselblad, but also PhaseOne, Alpa, Leaf, and Sinar.)

Please consider your comments carefully and not in haste; I believe you may feel differently if you knew the "Company" was not some imaginary callous team of raiders that your commentary suggests. The "Company" as the subject of your visceral challenges on a daily basis is comprised of people and creatives that you would most likely enjoy a cold beverage, talk of family, and debate topics of photography in a relaxed manner beyond the characters of the distant text in your posts.

If you feel that you have been wronged, then state it and be done with it.

Life is way too short to carry that much vinegar. Look to the bigger picture if happiness is a goal.

John


I feel that I've been misunderstood by you, I love Hass, I really do! Its among "myths" of photography and is justified to be so..., there is nobody that wouldn't recognize its contribution to photography. My opinion on "closed systems" is not against Hass, it would still be my opinion about "closed systems" if Sinar would do the same or Mamyia or anybody else and IS MY OPINION.... It is clearly stated and my everyday communication with others shows that the majority shares it! Its good that we now know that its been heard up to decision makers of Hass... its still their investment and responsibility against the shareholders, customers and reputation! Careful... I'm not saying I'm right in my opinion (and others) about closed systems, I'm only saying is my opinion and I don't feel I would apologize to anybody for having one! There is certainly no vinegar justified on this conversation and no empathy either I assure you. Thanks for paying attention..., Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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design_freak
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« Reply #89 on: October 06, 2011, 07:29:22 AM »
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Anyone else not know what a Kindybal is?  Huh


It's good point David  Roll Eyes

This is what I meant.
After all, the camera that does not have certain functions is not necessarily worse. In particular, when these functions are completely unnecessary. But I know it always looks better.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 07:31:20 AM by design_freak » Logged

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DF

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David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #90 on: October 06, 2011, 09:41:54 AM »
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It's good point David  Roll Eyes

This is what I meant.
After all, the camera that does not have certain functions is not necessarily worse. In particular, when these functions are completely unnecessary. But I know it always looks better.


I don't believe Derek pointed out any unnecessary functions.
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David Grover
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michael
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« Reply #91 on: October 06, 2011, 09:56:46 AM »
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Regarding the discontinuation of the HTS adaptor in the US, the reason is due to a patent infringement suit. The patent in question is US # 5,592,331.

Michael
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design_freak
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« Reply #92 on: October 06, 2011, 10:09:19 AM »
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I don't believe Derek pointed out any unnecessary functions.

I allow myself to think differently  Smiley
OP stated that he is not interested in using the Technical Camera.So HTS 1.5  it probably will not be needed. Ture Focus - I dare to doubt whether it is a necessary function. Nice but not necessary. Manufacturer support - well, you tell me that you have something that distinguished you from others in this regard? Also, I doubt. Derek mentioned something about a great lens - if you claim that the new LS glasses are much worse?  Is that the camera is integrated means that it is better? (You can take pictures better), I know what I mean this integration, also know its advantages and disadvantages. But this is not a function that determines that this camera is better. For one it is unquestionable advantage for another big drawback. It's my 2 cents.


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DF

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jecxz
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« Reply #93 on: October 07, 2011, 11:01:03 AM »
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Another reason why you'd want to select the H4D is the larger LCD on the H back and the single battery source - when you're out and about you just have to carry one extra battery - a feature that I like. I also really like the color from Hasselblad and Phocus. Above all of the nonsense on this thread, focus on the photograph, that's what matters most.

Kind regards,
Derek Jecxz
www.jecxz.com

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JV
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« Reply #94 on: October 07, 2011, 11:34:51 AM »
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Above all of the nonsense on this thread, focus on the photograph, that's what matters most.

Amen!  Both systems will allow you to take great shots.  The greatest limitation is likely to be the photographer.
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design_freak
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« Reply #95 on: October 07, 2011, 11:41:52 AM »
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Another reason why you'd want to select the H4D is the larger LCD on the H back and the single battery source - when you're out and about you just have to carry one extra battery - a feature that I like. I also really like the color from Hasselblad and Phocus. Above all of the nonsense on this thread, focus on the photograph, that's what matters most.

Kind regards,
Derek Jecxz
www.jecxz.com



And here we finally agree. Let's focus on photography.
Derek, I understand that you got the camera and now you have to praise the Hasselblad. But with all due respect to your person and your photos: the display and battery decides that this camera is better? I practically do not use the display. For me, it could not be display on the camera. Let's focus on photography!
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DF

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« Reply #96 on: October 07, 2011, 11:53:04 AM »
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And here we finally agree. Let's focus on photography.

Perhaps we could focus on yours?

Care to share?
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design_freak
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« Reply #97 on: October 07, 2011, 04:45:42 PM »
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Perhaps we could focus on yours?

Care to share?

You're sweet  Smiley
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DF

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jduncan
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« Reply #98 on: October 08, 2011, 04:30:36 PM »
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Regarding the discontinuation of the HTS adaptor in the US, the reason is due to a patent infringement suit. The patent in question is US # 5,592,331.

Michael


Thanks Michael for the information.
I am mesmerized for three reasons:

1. The patent is very old. It's and odd time for a law suit, unless the patent changed hands recently.
2. Can't understand why Hasselblad did not told user so.
3. This is more for David: Does support continues?
Best regards,

James
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