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Author Topic: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion  (Read 7943 times)
Farmer
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« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2011, 03:50:51 PM »
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A few things that might help here, guys:

1. Common Updater is of no use with driver 8.64 or higher.  It was designed to download and update to the latest version for previous series drivers for OS X, but it is no longer applicable since the release of drivers to support Lion.  For consumer printers, a new app called Download Navigator will be installed with Epson drivers that does much the same thing (but direct from Epson, not via Apple).  For the large format / pro printers, this isn't available and updates are via the various Epson websites.  You can run Common Updater, but it won't do anything.

2. The control over the driver is as designed - Adobe is using the feature both under OS X and Windows to set the driver correctly based on your choice of whether the app is colour managing or whether the printer is doing it.  Under OS X, though, it's quite forceful and you actually get the alternatives greyed out.  Windows just sets it but doesn't lock the user out from changing it.

If you want access to the colour settings, you need to choose to let the printer manage colour in the app - if you want a colour managed workflow controlled by the app (recommended) then you shouldn't be changing the colour controls in the driver.  If you need to make a profile, you should use the Adobe Color Print Utility.

Perhaps Eric or someone similar will pop by to clarify further, but that's my understanding of it all.
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Schewe
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« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2011, 04:17:36 PM »
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1. Common Updater is of no use with driver 8.64 or higher.  It was designed to download and update to the latest version for previous series drivers for OS X, but it is no longer applicable since the release of drivers to support Lion.

But the OP is trying to print using a 3800, not  3880 and as far as I can tell, the most recent driver for the 3800 is version 6.11 which WILL need to have the Common Updater v7.0 installed AFTER the 6.11 driver is installed, which should be done after wiping all the CUPS stuff out of the printers...

If/when Epson releases a new Lion (10.7) drivers, this may change. But as far as I can tell the current 6.11 plus the Common Updater should work in Lion.
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Farmer
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« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2011, 04:30:16 PM »
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There's some confusion which we probably need the OP to clarify.  8.64 for the 3800 (not 3880) is available (check the UK or Australian sites - it's just not up on the US site), and at least one person on this thread has it installed and it's likely in my mind that the OP does, too, given the behaviour of the driver.

It's not that the driver isn't working so far as I can tell, it's that it's following the new paradigm of interactivity between the app and the driver and setting itself based on the settings in the application.

If the OP is still running 6.11 then the Common Updater can be run, of course.
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greyscale
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« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2011, 04:40:28 PM »
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Jeff,
 according to the Epson d/l page, the common updater is not required for this driver.

John
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Schewe
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« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2011, 04:52:55 PM »
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according to the Epson d/l page, the common updater is not required for this driver.

Which driver? 6.11 or 8.64? Common Updater v7 is needed for 6.11 and not for 8.64. So the main question is what driver version is the OP using? This can be discovered by going to System Prefs, Print & Fax, click on the printer in question and Open Print Queue then in the next dialog, click on Printer Setup. This will show the exact version of the driver.
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Jim-St
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« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2011, 05:24:04 PM »
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Hi all-

The driver I've installed and am trying to get working is v8.64, the one available from Epson UK. As I said previously (Reply 11 above), the UK site also has "Mac OS X Common Updater  {v.5.0:} 28-Dec-2010, 35.0MBs", while USA site has "Common Updater v7.0 posted on 05/13/10 13.6MB"

I downloaded and installed the UK version, as the posting date was later, and I'm not sure a US and UK version numbers necessarily follow the same sequence

Hope this clarifies, and thanks for all your interest

Jim
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Jim-St
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« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2011, 05:41:18 PM »
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2. The control over the driver is as designed - Adobe is using the feature both under OS X and Windows to set the driver correctly based on your choice of whether the app is colour managing or whether the printer is doing it.  Under OS X, though, it's quite forceful and you actually get the alternatives greyed out.  Windows just sets it but doesn't lock the user out from changing it.

If you want access to the colour settings, you need to choose to let the printer manage colour in the app - if you want a colour managed workflow controlled by the app (recommended) then you shouldn't be changing the colour controls in the driver.  If you need to make a profile, you should use the Adobe Color Print Utility.

Perhaps Eric or someone similar will pop by to clarify further, but that's my understanding of it all.

This is new to me, and I'm not sure I understand all the implications for print workflow. I always use app managed colour for printing, but Farmer is right: if I set Profile to Managed by Printer in LR's Print Job tab, then I do get options for "Color" and "Color Settings" in the driver. And that mirrors back to LR's left panel Print Settings (which seems a bit counter-intuitive, as I usually work left>right in LR), where again, their absence or presence is conditional on how colour management is set in the Print Job tab!

So if Farmer is right, then my driver is working as intended (?)

And if so, yes, I can only hope Eric, or Jeff,can provide some fresh guidance on colour-managed print workflow in this brave new world!

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digitaldog
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« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2011, 05:58:17 PM »
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Some software products are using a private (undocumented) SPI called kPMApplicationColorMatching which you see in Photoshop and Lightroom. When you set Application Manages Color, the area of the driver that controls Colorsync will alter the radio buttons such they are grayed out.

This has been a behavior for awhile. I don’t have Lion running (nor intent to for awhile), I doubt the grayed out behavior the OP shows in the original post is based on this SPI nor is it normal or expected. The ColorSync radio buttons, yes. 

I don’t have a clue about Windows...
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Andrew Rodney
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Farmer
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« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2011, 09:43:07 PM »
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Andrew - from my discussions with Dave P. (and if there's any error here, it's mine and not his!) is that this is working as intended.  The buttons greyed out in the screenshot supplied by the OP relate to settings that should not be changed when using application colour management, and so Apple locks (greys) them out.

Windows respects the request for settings from the app, but it does not lock out changes in the way that OS X does.
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2011, 10:09:46 PM »
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So if Farmer is right, then my driver is working as intended (?)

Yes, he is right as I mentioned in an earlier post ...  the driver is working as intended.  sorry but you've been trying to fix something that isn't broken ... a change that doesn't seem to be documented but is logical.

  Were those boxes enabled, there would be nothing you would want to choose from them if letting PS or LR manage the color, so the new driver and Lion are communicating well enough to know that and it disables them. In previous versions they were selectable, but you would never select them.

 If you choose printer manages color, they will become available because there are settings there applicable to telling the printer what to do when it is managing color.

NOTHING new here it doesn't change the workflow at all, it just disables options that aren't applicable anyway which makes the interface more logical.
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greyscale
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« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2011, 10:13:55 PM »
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Jeff,
you of course are correct the OP is using a 3800.
My mistake, having my own problems with the Lion driver on a 3880.
Sorry,
John
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Photo Op
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« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2011, 10:56:56 PM »
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OK, let's look at it from this perspective. The OP IS using a 3800, but with a driver he downloaded from Epson EUROPE that is v8.64 dated 8/2011. Some of us are replying referring to the 3880 with a driver from Epson USA that is v8.64. So we are seeing the same options. SOME others are referring to the 3800 Epson USA driver which HAS NOT been updated to the (Lion) v8.64, and that's the confusion. My contention is that the v8.64 driver (3800 from Epson EUROPE AND 3880 from Epson USA) are working similarly AND CORRECTLY under LION (and probably SL) by having options greyed out when choosing LR or PS manages color in the print selection section.

And so my hope and contention IS that with the "new" v8.64 drivers, Epson FINALLY has adopted Apples "new" (Snow Leopard and Lion) APIs for printing with Colorsync that NO LONGER results in double profiling and the dreaded DARK PRINT problems!
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 11:03:20 PM by Photo Op » Logged

David
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« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2011, 08:23:09 AM »
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Wow!

So it's meant to be like this! I woke this morning thinking I'd move to my backup drive which still has Snow Leopard, and leave Lion til these issues are sorted out. But if it meant to be like that!!

Hmm... not sure how to proceed now. This driver is different in a number of ways and my workflow will have to change to reflect these differences...

Examples:

1. There's no Standard setting in the Presets menu - just Default and Last Used. I'll assume Default is the new Standard

2. I've spent the morning reconstructing my User Templates panel, the contents of which were completely hosed. In the course of doing that, the following has become apparent...

3. It's not just the "Color" and "Color Settings" menus that are greyed/locked out. Under "Print Settings" in the driver, only the 3 Photo papers (Lustre, Gloss and Semigloss) and 2 of the Matte papers (Archival & Enhanced) are available. All other paper types (inc all the Fine Art ones) are greyed out. Since Epson provides ICC profiles for some at least of these, I'm not sure how to proceed here. Should I need to use e.g. Velvet Fine Art, I can't see any way of selecting it the Media Type menu.


The last is the biggest residual issue here, I think. If my User Templates get hosed again the next 24 hours then it's back to Snow Leopard. Otherwise I expect I'll get on ok with Lion, if I can find a way of accessing the full range of paper types...

That's where I'm up to for now - thanks for all your help guys, I expect I'll have more to post yet before I get this thing settled!


Jim
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Photo Op
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« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2011, 09:03:56 AM »
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I always use app managed colour for printing


Here's a guess so take it for what it's worth. I've understood that by having LR manage color and by selecting an Epson icc profile in LR for a specific paper, then the driver (especially now with v8.64) should give you the proper paper options in the settings whether Glossy, Matte or "other". If you use the proper icc profile for the paper your using then the options should be available to you in the driver called from LR. If I'm wrong in my understanding, then maybe Jeff, Andrew or Wayne may wish to comment.
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David
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« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2011, 09:11:24 AM »
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Andrew - from my discussions with Dave P. (and if there's any error here, it's mine and not his!) is that this is working as intended.  The buttons greyed out in the screenshot supplied by the OP relate to settings that should not be changed when using application colour management, and so Apple locks (greys) them out.

In ColorSync (Color Matching) yes, but for the popup for Color, ABW? That doesn’t sound kosher. But not being on Lion, I’m not sure. It seems strange.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2011, 09:41:02 AM »
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Here's a guess so take it for what it's worth. I've understood that by having LR manage color and by selecting an Epson icc profile in LR for a specific paper, then the driver (especially now with v8.64) should give you the proper paper options in the settings whether Glossy, Matte or "other". If you use the proper icc profile for the paper your using then the options should be available to you in the driver called from LR. If I'm wrong in my understanding, then maybe Jeff, Andrew or Wayne may wish to comment.

I can see the logic of hat you're saying, Dave, but it just doesn't seem  to work like that. I just tried going into Print module, selecting the Pr038 VFAP profile (an Epson profile, IIRC), then going into LR's Print Settings (i.e. the driver). Again, I just got the 3 Photo papers and 2 Matte ones available.

Under Color Matching, however, I did find this (see screenshot): new to me, but I'm not sure if this stuff was there in earlier versions of the driver

Tried selecting the Pro38 VFAP profile, but again it didn't make the Velvet Fine Art paper available. So I'm stumped on how to access a whole range of papers (though I'm ok to use my normal Epson Trad Photo and Ilford GFS, so it's liveable with short term)



Jim
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2011, 04:26:13 PM »
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In ColorSync (Color Matching) yes, but for the popup for Color, ABW? That doesn’t sound kosher. But not being on Lion, I’m not sure. It seems strange.
ABW mode with the new driver is only available when you let the printer manage color, but the menu is greyed out when the application is managing color.  I don't use ABW but it seems logical to me ... isn't ABW a printer driver managed setting?  I'm curious if this is a "lion" thing ... it very may work the same way with Snow Leopard since this is an Epson driver change.  I don't think Apple changed much in the printer pipeline from SL to Lion.


I can see the logic of hat you're saying, Dave, but it just doesn't seem  to work like that. I just tried going into Print module, selecting the Pr038 VFAP profile (an Epson profile, IIRC), then going into LR's Print Settings (i.e. the driver). Again, I just got the 3 Photo papers and 2 Matte ones available.

Under Color Matching, however, I did find this (see screenshot): new to me, but I'm not sure if this stuff was there in earlier versions of the driver

Tried selecting the Pro38 VFAP profile, but again it didn't make the Velvet Fine Art paper available. So I'm stumped on how to access a whole range of papers (though I'm ok to use my normal Epson Trad Photo and Ilford GFS, so it's liveable with short term)

Jim

I"m not near my 4900, but the pop  you mention is when you let the "printer" manage color, and then in the printer dialog you then allow colorsync to manage color.  The OS can manage the color and beginning with Snow Leopard does allow you to select a profile (meaning you can use profiles in programs like iPhoto, something which was very challenging to do before).

As far as your other problems, normally when a paper is unavailable it is because you have chosen a paper path which isn't compatible with the paper type, perhaps the new driver is trying to enforce that more aggressively?  Many fine art papers are not supposed to be fed through the normal top slot, but require the rear manual feed or the front manual feed slot.  Any chance that's your problem?

As far as workflow, I believe "default" is the same as standard, and yes it's unfortunate that the new drivers will probably wipe out LR presets since those profiles are deleted and replaced with new profiles and the LR presets also remember which printer preset you use which are also lost. I've had the same issue.  After I correct the problem when using a preset I can right click on it and update it to current settings, so I haven't had to make them all from scratch.  Many of the preset settings are still valid.
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« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2011, 04:27:54 PM »
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I'm curious if this is a "lion" thing ... it very may work the same way with Snow Leopard since this is an Epson driver change.

Its not how any of my Epson printers behave in Snow Leopard so I just don’t know.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2011, 04:35:30 PM »
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I agree with what Wayne has said (I was about to say basically the same thing but got the "two more replies have been made" warning :-) ).

The other thing for the OP to check is which black ink is selected - PK or MK?  That will restrict the choice of media available as well under OS X.

Andrew - There are changes in the OS, the driver and the apps.  Again, this also happens under Windows, but it just doesn't lock you out.  I don't have a machine to check, but under SL it should be making the appropriate driver settings but perhaps is not locking them out?  ABW is designed as a "printer manages" workflow so that makes sense.  If you're using an application managed colour workflow with ICC profiles then there shouldn't be a problem with the items that are greyed out as there should be no need to change them.
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« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2011, 05:05:12 PM »
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Andrew - There are changes in the OS, the driver and the apps.

Correct...with the 8.xx series drivers for Mac, if an application is set to handle color management, the driver locks out any color settings. This is the new Apple Colorsync compatible Mac driver standard. And yes, if you set LR to handle color management you can't select ABW in the driver. You must set LR to Printer Manages Color in order to use ABW...
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