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Author Topic: Canon IPF8300 and 6300 Reliability Issues (2F44 + other issues)  (Read 16391 times)
enduser
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« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2011, 08:56:07 PM »
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Shewhorn, your canon experience is completely opposite to ours and that of several business contacts of ours.  We have and own several Canon cameras, printers, lenses etc, and not one has given any trouble.  Are you buying grey imports, on eBay or some other chanel not directly from a manufacturers agent perhaps?

Indeed, after over 60+ years in the photo business I've never come across a single brand disaster story like yours.  You troubles seem so far off our experience that I'm having difficulty with it.
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Shark_II
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« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2011, 09:45:31 AM »
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Shewhorn, your canon experience is completely opposite to ours and that of several business contacts of ours.  We have and own several Canon cameras, printers, lenses etc, and not one has given any trouble.  Are you buying grey imports, on eBay or some other chanel not directly from a manufacturers agent perhaps?

Indeed, after over 60+ years in the photo business I've never come across a single brand disaster story like yours.  You troubles seem so far off our experience that I'm having difficulty with it.

Joe has posted this litany of "problems" on other forums too.  Seems a certain hard-on toward Canon is directing all this.

Also, there was no mention of him contacting Canon re: the heads in the first place.  Canon warranties the heads for a certain amount of ink.  They will replace those heads for free if that usage has not been met.  I know this for a fact because I have done it, not because I am passing on "Internet Expertise".  The head warranty is separate from the printer warranty and starts with the purchase of every head, or the purchase of the printer if you have never replaced the heads.

Call Canon support, they will ask you for the head codes and if the heads have not used the warrantied amount of ink, they send you another one overnight and you send the bad head back to them with the pre-paid mailer they enclose.

We run three ipf printers here every day.  I have four Canon 5D cameras (the Mk I versions), the Canon Holy Trinity of L zooms plus an extra 24-70 2.8L, assorted other glass including the fish, the cheapo 50, cheapo 80, the outrageously overpriced 50mm 1.2 (which is not really all that great by the way) and six 580 Flashes... and I have NEVER had one percent of the problems with that gear as related in his post.

Very strange stuff here.


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shewhorn
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« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2011, 11:42:56 AM »
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Joe has posted this litany of "problems" on other forums too.  Seems a certain hard-on toward Canon is directing all this.

Tom,

If I hadn't had considerable problems with them I wouldn't be saying anything. As for other forums, I've posted this list of disaster after disaster on only one other private forum (at least I can't remember posting it anywhere else) which is not visible to non-paying members. Your implication that I've been going around and posting this list to multiple forums is exaggerated. I did mention on the ipf wiki that I've had issues with their reliability, but I didn't post this list. This is the first time (at least that I can remember) that I've posted it to a public forum.

As for a "hard on" toward Canon, if I were making stuff up then perhaps you'd have a point, but these are facts. If I had a "hard-on" (which makes absolutely no sense at all... in this scenario Canon has made me completely limp  Cheesy ) for Canon as you claim I wouldn't have started a thread on another forum praising them for NOT playing the megapixel game with their latest camera. A bold move in a world of measurebators and people who buy based on specs. They seem to have listened to the professionals this time around and that is quite encouraging.

Quote
Also, there was no mention of him contacting Canon re: the heads in the first place.  Canon warranties the heads for a certain amount of ink.  They will replace those heads for free if that usage has not been met.  I know this for a fact because I have done it, not because I am passing on "Internet Expertise".  

You are partially correct on the ink limit however you didn't get all of the facts right. They warranty the heads for 4000 ml, or 1 year, whichever comes first. If it was 4000 ml then they would have replaced my heads (which still wouldn't have fixed the problem unfortunately). If you have used 0 ml of ink, and 1 year from the purchase date elapses, they will not replace the heads. The tech I spoke with actually had incorrect information on their warranty claiming it was just 1 year and that they weren't warrantied for any specific quantity. Perhaps they've changed the policy, but it wouldn't make a lot of sense to do so from their standpoint.

Quote
The head warranty is separate from the printer warranty and starts with the purchase of every head, or the purchase of the printer if you have never replaced the heads.

Call Canon support, they will ask you for the head codes and if the heads have not used the warrantied amount of ink, they send you another one overnight and you send the bad head back to them with the pre-paid mailer they enclose.

Again, some of your information is incorrect regarding their head warranty. Of course I called them, they got the lot number on the heads, blah blah blah. The tech support folks were excellent as usual but they couldn't help. The issue was escalated to customer relations and they were polite but useless, and just not really interested in helping at all as made obvious by their claim that the machine's warranty started on the date I pre-ordered the machine which was before a single IPF8300 had been shipped to the retail channel. This is a little bit of a tangent to the subject at hand but I find that enforcing a warranty based on a purchase date that preceeded the shipping of the machine to be a little ridiculous.

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Very strange stuff here.

Perhaps the number of failures I've had are a little outside the bell curve but they are not by any means, strange. Issues with focusing, soft lenses, and the IS failing are common (although it's were instead of are in the case of the IS, that seems to have been taken care of, the number of reports of this dropped dramatically around 2007 and I can't remember seeing anyone post about this in the past 2 years) and well documented. If they didn't have problems then we wouldn't have seen as many people switch over to Nikon as soon as Nikon came out with a viable full frame option.

Cheers, Joe
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 01:21:28 PM by shewhorn » Logged
shewhorn
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« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2011, 11:49:13 AM »
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Are you buying grey imports, on eBay or some other chanel not directly from a manufacturers agent perhaps?

Most of my Canon camera gear was purchased through a local (at the time) store, Bear Images Photographic in Palo Alto, CA (awesome service BTW). A few pieces came from Keeble and Schuchat (another formerly local store in Palo Alto), and a few pieces were from reputable dealers (B&H, Canoga Camera, and a really popular store in Pennsylvania, the name of which I can't recall at the moment). All of my gear (with the exception of the D30 which I bought used in 2002, and which worked great) was new, with US warranties.

Cheers, Joe
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shewhorn
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« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2011, 12:52:45 PM »
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Back to the printer... I bought two new heads and replaced them which rules out the heads as the problem. I got a hold of the repair manual. Since the heads aren't the issue, this leaves (according to the manual based upon the error code) two possibilities, a malfunctioning head management sensor (which detects whether or not ink is firing from the nozzles) or a malfunctioning motherboard. I've never ever seen a motherboard fail in such a consistent and calculated manner. I've seen some crazy things before so I won't say it's impossible but, a malfunctioning head management sensor would certainly be consistent with the symptoms I'm seeing.

When speaking to support the week prior, after receiving a quote of $1400 to fix it (as mentioned before, Canon charges a flat rate, so it's $1400 for a $50 part or $1400 for $900 worth of heads, a $1k motherboard, and other assorted parts exceeding $1400 so it can go either way but I suspect most repairs won't even come close to being worth $1400) the tech mentioned "it could be anything from a $50 sensor to a $1000 motherboard". While it's not a guarantee that the head management sensor is the issue, that would appear to be the case so... $50 part = $1400 to fix. I tried to purchase the part and after getting bounced around I was told that they only sell parts to service contractors.

Out of curiosity I called Epson and asked them how they provide service after the warranty expires. They contract the work out to Precision One. It's $100 to go out to a location, and $175 per hour of work so basically a service call is a minimum of $275 + parts. When Canon sends out a contractor (in this area it's Pitney Bowes) they have to come out twice, once to diagnose, and then the following day to install parts. I asked how Precision One handled things. Epson said that they stock parts in the truck when they go on a service run and in addition, Epson gives them a list of potential parts that they think might be involved in the problem so in most cases, one visit should take care of the problem. In the past when I've had Canon come out for warranty service they were usually there for an hour but never more than 2.

Replacing the head management sensor looks fairly straight forward. With the speed that an experienced tech can get the skin off of the machine I'm pretty certain that this would be less than an hour so if this machine were an Epson, the cost to repair this would be $325 to $500.

Now, I attempted to buy the head management sensor from Canon but they won't sell it to me. I asked Epson about purchasing parts. They're not really any different there, they said the only part that the end user can purchase is the heads. Other parts would have to be purchased through a 3rd party.

Extended warranties - Epson charges $725 for an additional year (2 years total), or $1286.50 for 2 years (3 years total). Canon's extended warranties are $1225 (looks like it came down by $25 since I last checked), and $2350 respectively.

I wouldn't be quite so infuriated if Canon's repair costs weren't so unreasonable (at least in my view, am I alone in thinking that $1400 for a $50 part which would probably take less than an hour to swap out is a bit unreasonable). The fact that the machine is still so new, doesn't have a lot of heavy use, and the failure in question has cost me at least $1100 in ink only makes it that much more frustrating.

Lesson learned in terms of researching the cost of repairs. I won't say I'll never buy a Canon again but when considering the costs of repairs, consumables (ink on both of them and heads on the Canon), extended warranties, etc. the cost of ownership for Epson's printers appears to be lower over time.

For the time being, I'm waiting for a phone call. If it goes well, Canon will be doing the repair. If not I'll see if I can get the part through a 3rd party and I'll replace it myself.

Cheers, Joe



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shewhorn
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« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2011, 05:06:07 AM »
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Found a source to order parts from. If anyone else runs into this issue and is competent with mechanical devices as well as working with computer assembly... the Head Management Sensor is a whopping $34 bucks and I found a source to buy it from (Canon will not sell it to you).

Cheers, Joe
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Light Seeker
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« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2011, 02:17:13 PM »
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Found a source to order parts from. If anyone else runs into this issue and is competent with mechanical devices as well as working with computer assembly... the Head Management Sensor is a whopping $34 bucks and I found a source to buy it from (Canon will not sell it to you).

Cheers, Joe

Joe, would you mind sending me a PM with your parts source and where you were able to find the manual? I am getting a 2F42 error on my 8300. I have logged a ticket with Canon, so I should be fine on this one, but I would feel better having the manual and parts source for down the road (just in case).

Thanks.

Terry.
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shewhorn
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« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2011, 02:54:04 AM »
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Here's the link for the manual:

http://www.service-manual.net/ashop/search.php?searchstring=ipf8300&showresult=true&exp=0&resultpage=&categories=&msg=&search=search.php&shop=1

Will send you a PM with the parts source.

Cheers, Joe
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Light Seeker
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« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2011, 11:34:21 AM »
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Thanks Joe, for everything.

Terry.
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Jim Pascoe
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« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2011, 05:54:11 AM »
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Just to counter some of the other experience here - after advocating what a fantastic printer my IPF6100 has been for three years, I had my first problem this week.  The printer started banding and dumping globs of purple ink though it did a clear nozzle check.  Panic, because we are at our busiest time.  I called Condor who are a local Canon dealer and service centre in Southampton (UK).  The service engineer called today (24 hours after my first contact) for a quoted call out charge of 88 for the first half an hour and 22 per 15 minutes after.  He quickly stripped the covers, found the purge unit was a bit contaminated and cleaned it.  This had allowed the heads to become fouled with ink and had been causing the trouble.  He removed the heads without needing to empty the system and so avoiding wasting any ink.  The printer then gave a completely clear nozzle check and now seems to be working flawlessly.  It may be the purge unit will need to be replaced if the problem recurs.  The engineer was probably here for 45 minutes.  My faith in the printer is restored! And I have discovers a great local company in Condor.  The printer gets quite a bit of use and at the latest count I have used over 90 cartridges (130ml).

Regarding other Canon products.  I have completely the opposite experience to Joe.  We have used Canon DSLR's for ten years now - D30, 10D, 1Ds, 1Ds mk3, 5D, and 5D mk2 and a whole load of Canon lenses, many of them L series.  Not one of the bodies has ever had a single fault and we shoot 40-50,000 pictures a year.  They are all still in regular use except the D30 and 10D.  The L lenses have performed very well with two being repaired due to being dropped.  Two of the cheaper lenses, 50mm 1.4 and 28mm 1.8 have both had problems and seem poorly built.  Because I have had so few problem I have little experience of Canon service, so am not really qualified to comment.  The bottom line for me is that I have mad most of my living for ten years using Canon products and they have performed almost flawlessly.  If I need to replace the 6100 it will probably be with a 6300.

Jim
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Czornyj
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« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2012, 05:54:30 AM »
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Joe, would you mind sending me a PM with your parts source and where you were able to find the manual? I am getting a 2F42 error on my 8300. I have logged a ticket with Canon, so I should be fine on this one, but I would feel better having the manual and parts source for down the road (just in case).

Thanks.

Terry.

Terry - by any chance, did you figure out what does that freaking 2F42 code mean? One channel in PBK stopped printing in my 6350, cleaning doesn't help, it ends up with 2F42 error and I'm getting out of my mind...
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Mike Raub
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« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2012, 01:39:28 PM »
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It seems most owners are reasonably happy with their IPF 6300/8300 printers and with the current rebates and trade-in deals I'm thinking of replacing my DesignJet 130 with an IPF 6300. I can get it for about a grand less than a HP Z series, which I also have been considering. The DJ130 still works fine, but the dye inks severely limit your media choices.

I downloaded the 6300 users manual and it is comprehensive in the extreme. I'm a hobbyist photographer and make very few prints compared to many users. From a cost prespective, I'd probably be better off sending my images out to be printed. However, it seems like every print I make needs some tweaking to make it look like I want it to, so I like to keep everything in house.

Being a very low volume printer, I'm interested in any tips to avoid head clogs. Is just leaving the printer on all the time enough or should I try to come up with some simple AppleScript program to make the printer print a few lines of each color a couple of times a week?

I've used Canon camera gear regularily for the last 25 years and have never had a camera or lens require repair.

Any tips for a new user would be appreciated.
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Light Seeker
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« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2012, 06:07:30 PM »
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Terry - by any chance, did you figure out what does that freaking 2F42 code mean? One channel in PBK stopped printing in my 6350, cleaning doesn't help, it ends up with 2F42 error and I'm getting out of my mind...

I've had 2F50, 2F42, 2F43 and 2F44 errors. Both heads have been replaced, the 2nd one a few days ago, and I'm still getting 2F44 and 2F43 errors. I will be calling Canon tomorrow and I suspect someone will be coming out with circuit boards.

I lost my gloss black channel somewhere in the middle of all this, and unfortunately I'm not sure which error(s) were coming up in and around that time. I did all the required cleanings and the problem persisted. The first replacement head I received addressed the lost channel. Perhaps your head is gone, and the 2F42 error relates to that. I'm sorry, but I don't know exactly what that code means.

Terry.

Terry.
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vindog
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« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2012, 06:49:56 PM »
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Lemon IPF8300....I had five service calls in the first month of ownership; it did not function when it was installed and was unreliable after that.  I did not buy the extended warranty opting to take their second set of ink instead, thinking as a low volume printer I could get buy once the thing was fixed (an anomaly, not typical).   It is the second year, and the thing is throwing head error codes.  I am thoroughly disgusted with this printer and won't buy another Canon large format.    When it worked it was beautiful.   It wound up with problems with the ethernet (would only print half a page), the software is crappy on a Mac...just an overall bad experience.

Now I can't get rid of the thing.  It is too heavy to move.  What a waste.  I would like to know if anyone has had any luck with Canon on their lemon large format printers getting them to fix it.  I have only had one set of ink run through, and most of that is with the ridiculous cleaning cycles squirting money away.

I shoot Canon, and have been happy with their cameras.  But a $4k printer that costs $100 a month for a warranty alone seems like I paid way too much.   
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r.schultz
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« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2012, 08:56:49 PM »
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Found a source to order parts from. If anyone else runs into this issue and is competent with mechanical devices as well as working with computer assembly... the Head Management Sensor is a whopping $34 bucks and I found a source to buy it from (Canon will not sell it to you).

Cheers, Joe

Hi to all,  I am having the same problems with my ipf8300 as many of the other members had posted, and was wondering if any of you that new, would be able to share the source of parts that Joe had mentioned in his quote.  If so a PM would be appreciated!

R. Schultz
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kers
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« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2012, 11:03:30 AM »
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Interesting to read about the problems with the IPF 8300 printers.. I always thought they worked without any problems and did not spill so much ink on cleaning...

I am on a HP z3100 and have it for 6 years now- did some little repair on it mself ( also HP charges a lot of money) and soon have to replace the transporterbelt..that starts flaking rubber..
But must say it did not spill any ink on cleaning and the heads are always clean... I had one head replaced in 6 years ( I am not a big printer).
It was a gamble when i bought it (first league) but it turned out a good one- very reliable and uniform colours from day one.
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Pieter Kers
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« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2012, 07:28:00 AM »
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Hi Mike
Not done this before but here is a link to my previous post.

Re: outstanding Canon support
Reply #5 on: September 15, 2012, 03:41:16 AM

If you are like me and print very little try using a roll of proofing paper, or that roll of rubbish you tried but don't use to print out a nozzle check directly from the printer menu. I do this every 4 or so days to cycle the nozzles.

I have been very happy with this printer as a first LFP.
The printer calibration works well and for profiles use the free services that suppliers provide when you but the media, well here in the UK anyway.

I am a long term Canon user of cameras and lenses.
The only fault I have to report is L or not lenses sometimes don't auto focus unless the focus is moved manually first. It only happens on lenses that I have not used for a while. Once in action they perform as per normal, so motor replacement as advised CPS not really an option on the two lenses, 300 F4 L IS/100 macro 2.8 that slap me for not using them enough.

Regards
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Clearair
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« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2012, 07:37:32 AM »
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The link didn't work so heres a copy.

Ha here in good old blighty where we pay through every orifice (almost a per yer $) THERE are no offers to buy new at rates that make me look at the costs of keeping my 3.5 year old iPF6100 running.
Consider yourselves lucky to have the options in your throw away culture. Well, that almost made me feel better.

So all of a sudden my uber reliable iPF went rogue on me with a hardware error, L printhead. Filled the maintenance tank and reduced ink levels by 20% trying to clean my way out of this problem. So details, it's 3.5 years old, no maintenance contract (too expensive) has only needed ink and paper so far. I print just for myself, photo artist.
Ink head about 350 & M cart 50. Also needed to get two ink carts as now down to 20% which may not be enough for the re prime. About 140.00.
There are slightly cheaper sources but I like to deal with a local supplier plus there have been duff products and fakes in the supply chain when sourced from outside the EU by some UK suppliers, apparently.
So we had a chat and I supplied an email to be forwarded to Canon UK large format. I will not take up your time with my arguments but these printers do run a maintenance schedual when not in use, so I leave it switched on 24/7 and it has yet to use 3 full ink replacement sets.
Low use over a long time.
I now have an accurate temp and hygrometer and run test prints on proofing paper to keep the heads eerrr fresh.
I have no option for de humidifier in the room I use, no door. We had a lot of rain early summer in the UK.
I waited some weeks and almost gave up when I got a call from my local guy who told me a new head was on it's way. Yippee.
Installed OK, used about 15% or more ink and took the new M cart to 80% available. Auto head aligment on my favourite paper and of couse a colour recalibrate.

I would add to the notion of pigment drying out and blocking, these heads sit on shelves with ink in them to stop them drying out. Yes there are seals in place but I think the problem is pigment settle in the lines suppling the head. The carts are rattled quite well by the printer and slop ink about inside.

Oh well I am happy that Canon saw fit to see my arguments and responded with a genuine good will gesture to a customer and that my faith in a local supplier is sound.
One day when I am rich enough I will have that 60 inch fine art printer ( need a bigger house)and it will be a Canon.............

Regards.

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KatManDEW
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« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2013, 08:16:32 PM »
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Started getting the 2F44 error myself about a month ago with my 6300. Printer is a little less than two years old and hasn't had a full set of replacement ink carts used.

Canon tech support says it's almost certainly a problem with the print heads because of infrequent use. I know a guy who works for a copier/printer service company and he agrees. Canon tech support says I need to run at least a nozzle check at least once a week.

Anyone come up with anything else on this issue?
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Mike Sellers
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« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2013, 04:40:47 AM »
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I have watched a video on YouTube where a clogged print head is placed in an ultrasonic machine with cleaning solution and this clears the clog. Has anyone tried this?
Mike
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