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Author Topic: The dreaded apostrophe...!  (Read 10071 times)
jeremypayne
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« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2011, 02:50:45 PM »
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...I disagree with this effort to categorize various forms of laziness.

To my way of thinking, there is a much simpler way to categorize speaking and writing than trying to divide-up everything into arbitrary groups. It basically boils down to this: some people make an effort to speak and write correctly, while most people don't, and that's pretty much it. "Informal speech" is merely a term we use to describe our own laziness when we don't try as hard to speak well as we would in a more formal setting. One should not try to dignify the sloppiness of informal speech by calling it "correct within its context"; rather, informal speech is merely the causal, sloppy speaking we do when we're not trying so hard to be formal...

That's so arbitrary.

Parsimony, especially with words, is a virtue.  I would rather read 'incorrect' text that gets to the point than 'correct' text that goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on ...
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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2011, 03:01:39 PM »
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That's so arbitrary.
Parsimony, especially with words, is a virtue.  I would rather read 'incorrect' text that gets to the point than 'correct' text that goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on ...


In keeping with your own adherence to parsimony, wouldn't "on and on" have sufficed?

What I said was not arbitrary either, it was accurate, and the rendering of the point was pretty brief actually. Are you so lazy that you can't read 3-4 lines of text without crying boo-hoo? (BTW, if you dislike reading wasted words, I suggest you avoid reading Descartes Grin ).

Cheers,

Jack


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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2011, 04:41:05 PM »
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Robert, I would say this "school of thought" needs to be educated
In the interests of terseness, perhaps you should have said "thought's school."   Cheesy

And let us not forget the wisdom of that great philosopher, Humpty Dumpty:
Quote
When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less. The question is, said Alice, whether you can make words mean so many different things. The question is, said Humpty Dumpty, which is to be master; thats all.

Eric
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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2011, 06:06:29 PM »
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Bravo Eric, a tip of the hat to you


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jeremypayne
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« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2011, 07:13:09 PM »
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>>> In keeping with your own adherence to parsimony, wouldn't "on and on" have sufficed?

Uh huh.  See what I mean? 

>> What I said was not arbitrary

Yes it was.
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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2011, 08:29:42 PM »
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Uh huh.  See what I mean? 
Yes it was.



(Was that parsimonious enough for you?)


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kikashi
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« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2011, 05:45:04 AM »
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Regarding this other matter, Jeremy, I do not believe the word "advertising" is a gerund in the sentence I used.
...
Therefore, the word "advertising" was a present participle in my sentence.
No, it wasn't. Still, as long as you believe that you're right, nothing else matters, does it?

Oh... you mean we were supposed to be taking this seriously?  Roll Eyes
Dear God, I hope not! Grammar's fun, that's all.

Jeremy
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2011, 07:22:23 AM »
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Bravo Eric, a tip of the hat to you


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The hat's tip?

And for Jeremy I was going to make a comment about my Grammar's, but both of them has been ded for menny year's.  Sad
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 07:24:10 AM by Eric Myrvaagnes » Logged

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ckimmerle
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« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2011, 09:57:49 AM »
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...Grammar's, but both of them has been ded for menny year's.  Sad

3y3 c4n't und3r5t4nd 4 w0rd U wr0t3
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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2011, 11:18:20 AM »
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The hat's tip?


Now look here, Eric: the first time you got me, no doubt, but I feel this second catch of yours was unfair because I was speaking "informally" using a colloquialism

Bravo again!

Jack


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PeterAit
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« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2011, 06:57:37 PM »
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Unrelated to photography (but still allowed in this section I read!) but It's important that I get this right.  I have a design that I'm doing currently and am unsure if I need an apostrophe or not in the text. 

I have a line which for example reads "Ikeas top of the line..."

Am I right in thinking I don't need an apostrophe anywhere in the word Ikea?


Many thanks!

You most certainly do need an apostrophe, Ikea's. It's a possessive, and the apostrophe is not optional. There's no room for debate on this one.
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Peter
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2011, 07:15:38 PM »
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... I have a line which for example reads "Ikeas top of the line..."

Am I right in thinking I don't need an apostrophe anywhere in the word Ikea?...

Well... Strictly speaking, you are right, you do not need an apostrophe "anywhere in the word Ikea"... but you do need it outside the word, i.e., Ikea's.

P.S. I assume the level of the debate so far allows me this level of pedantry? Wink
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2011, 07:46:16 PM »
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Well... Strictly speaking, you are right, you do not need an apostrophe "anywhere in the word Ikea"... but you do need it outside the word, i.e., Ikea's.

P.S. I assume the level of the debate so far allows me this level of pedantry? Wink
Absolutely!

Of course the line in question must now read, "Ikea's line's top" instead of "Ikeas top of the line." Or, of course, "Ikeas' lines' tops" in the case of multiple Ikeas with separate lines.   Roll Eyes
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kikashi
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« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2011, 02:37:46 AM »
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Well... Strictly speaking, you are right, you do not need an apostrophe "anywhere in the word Ikea"... but you do need it outside the word, i.e., Ikea's.

P.S. I assume the level of the debate so far allows me this level of pedantry? Wink
"allows"? It's mandatory! Congratulations.

Jeremy
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Mr_S
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« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2011, 03:33:00 AM »
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Wow - a mini debate...!  Interesting reading and thanks again. 

Just to add to one of the earlier comments about the degradation of language - I think one of the biggest offenders must surely be the humble sms text message.  It's far too easy to knock out an abomination of a sentence, and while I'm no master of the language, I'll always take the time to put a capital letter, space after a comma, capital I etc etc..   Grin

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Bryan Conner
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« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2011, 03:48:16 AM »
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Gerunds are verbs ening in "ing"

Misspelling, especially in light of the availability of a spell check function provided automatically in all posts, is very lazy.   Grin
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stamper
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« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2011, 04:19:55 AM »
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Jack would you describe yourself as an articulate troll or an articulated troll? Wink Grin
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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2011, 06:15:43 AM »
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Misspelling, especially in light of the availability of a spell check function provided automatically in all posts, is very lazy.   Grin

"Now that is the type of arrant pedantry up with which I shall not put."
~ Sir Winston Churchill
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2011, 07:39:32 AM »
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"Now that is the type of arrant pedantry up with which I shall not put."
~ Sir Winston Churchill

-In one of his famous drunken stupors?

But back to RR's point (I think it was RR) that only humans can possess things; I think the more accurate way of putting it would be that only live beings can possess.  Inanimate objects or things do not have the power of possession.  Hence, Ikea (or IKEA) cannot possess and using the possessive form would be incorrect.  Roll Eyes  Tongue  Grin

Here's another favourite (or favorite for the Philistines in the group):  Using 'that' to describe a person.  A person is a who, not a that.  That refers to things or objects or non-human live entities (e.g., dogs).  Who refers to people.  Conversely, using who to refer to things or objects (i.e., The company whose policies..... ) is equally incorrect and galling. Kiss  Shocked
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degrub
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« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2011, 08:49:45 AM »
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"Hence, Ikea (or IKEA) cannot possess and using the possessive form would be incorrect."

Oh ? Just try walking out of the store with one of their items and see how possessive they are.  Grin  
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