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Author Topic: The dreaded apostrophe...!  (Read 10850 times)
Bryan Conner
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« Reply #60 on: October 18, 2011, 12:35:02 PM »
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It must be SOOOO cool to know everything.

Haha. It probably is, but only Jack can inform us.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #61 on: October 18, 2011, 01:07:44 PM »
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It says something about the state of digital photography (or photography in general) when a post about a tiny typographical sign generates four pages of comments. Hopefully the brewing debate if 18 megapixels is barely enough or too much will soon bring us all back to the right track  Wink
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louoates
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« Reply #62 on: October 18, 2011, 01:25:38 PM »
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Good news! I have heard from impeccable sources that Photoshop CS6 will have an apostrophe repair tool. Problem solved. Now about those pesky semicolons...
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kikashi
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« Reply #63 on: October 18, 2011, 01:44:43 PM »
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But I'm not so sure about "the American dialect of English." Should it become "American English's dialect?" Sounds a bit awkward.
It could be "English's American dialect", I suppose, but it's still quite inelegant.

Now if I can find some photographs to illustrate the key photographic features of this thread (Oops: I mean, "this thread's photographic features"), then I will (or is it "shall?") try to post them.
It should be "I'll", of course! Then it doesn't matter whether it's will or shall.

Jeremy
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« Reply #64 on: October 18, 2011, 02:56:13 PM »
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Incidentally, as a parting shot but without breaking my self-imposed rule set out above, "There's a couple of things..." is correct. The word "couple" is singular. Its plural is "couples".

Well, no.  The 'There's (or There is) is in reference to 'things', not couple.  Remove 'couple' and There's things is incorrect.  Further, when speaking of multiple pairs of people (e.g., couples), then couples is the appropriate word.  However the word couple still refers to multiples - two to be exact and thus is, in itself, a plural.  But that's irrelevant because, as noted, the 'there's' refers to 'things'.
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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #65 on: October 19, 2011, 03:51:03 PM »
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I had never heard of The Elements of Style. I see now that it is a book on the American dialect of English and I propose to read it with relish. The example I gave was, I think, far too widely-known and well-used to be attributable.
Russ was right; you were wrong. The word you used was a gerund and your choosing to call it a participle does not alter its nature, any more than my choosing to describe either occurrence of the word "choosing" in this sentence as a participle would render it other than a gerund. As Lord Templeman rather beautifully put it some years ago, "[t]he manufacture of a five pronged instrument for manual digging results in a fork even if the manufacturer, unfamiliar with the English language, insists that he intended to make and has made a spade".
However, just as none is so blind as he who will not see, none is so ineducable as he who believes himself omniscient and infallible. Save when you wrongly "correct" others' perfectly correct grammar, I shall henceforth allow you to stew in the juices of your own ignorance.
Jeremy
Incidentally, as a parting shot but without breaking my self-imposed rule set out above, "There's a couple of things..." is correct. The word "couple" is singular. Its plural is "couples".

Hey Jeremy,

Just wanted to let you know that, aside from you being wrong in your "corrections," and aside from you trying to claim you weren't quoting text (when in fact you were), and aside from you trying to ignore the fact you misused an apostrophe on a thread about apostrophes (see Page 1, Replies #14 & 15), you now have committed a 4th grammatical blunder in your repeated pedantic attempts to "sound smart" ... which this time is misplacing a period outside a quotation.

You said,
"[t]he manufacture of a five pronged instrument for manual digging results in a fork even if the manufacturer, unfamiliar with the English language, insists that he intended to make and has made a spade".
(Note the red period.)

I will help you upgrade your English usage once again by reminding you that, when you utilize a quotation, the period goes inside the quotation marks not outside. Thus, the correct way to have displayed Lord Templeman's quote would be, "[t]he manufacture of a five pronged instrument for manual digging results in a fork even if the manufacturer, unfamiliar with the English language, insists that he intended to make and has made a spade."

So keep studying all those books, Jeremy, and maybe one day you will be able to get your grammar up to an acceptable level to where you don't make some total blunder of the English language each and every time you try to provide a "correction"

Cheers,

Jack




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jeremypayne
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« Reply #66 on: October 19, 2011, 04:13:55 PM »
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Blah Blah ... "I know everything"

You are wrong.  Jeremy was correct in placing his period outside the quotation marks as Jeremy is following the "logical" punctuation conventions our our British partners in the English language are wont to do.

Get over yourself, dude ... you just ain't as smart as you think you are ...
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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #67 on: October 19, 2011, 05:40:57 PM »
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You are wrong.  Jeremy was correct in placing his period outside the quotation marks as Jeremy is following the "logical" punctuation conventions our our British partners in the English language are wont to do.
Get over yourself, dude ... you just ain't as smart as you think you are ...

Again, we find another self-professed "grammarian" who is not only wrong in his "correction," but who commits a further blunder in his own attempt to correct.

As for British English, America rid itself of British rule centuries ago, and soundly defeated the British army (despite being vastly out-manned and vastly out-gunned), by using our superior wits. America then saved the British, not once, but twice, in WWI and WWII respectively. So pardon me if I dismiss what you said about where the period should be placed.

As for me "getting over myself," that will be pretty tough for me to do, since I am myself, and find myself afflicted with being myself every moment of every day.

Perhaps you could show me how this is done by getting over yourself. Wait. Before you try to master that hurdle, I honestly think you need first to get over me. I say that "you" need to get over "me" first, because it seems like you follow me around everywhere I go, and it seems like you attack me in every thread topic in which I participate. I don't know if this is some kind of "man crush" you have on me, or what, but your relentless badgering of me (unprovoked) on every thread topic in which I debate is approaching the point of pathology.

I would also like to point out that you likewise seem to have a fixation on "parsimony" ... or being brief, "short in length," etc.

Now, I was recently reprimanded by Michael again, for questioning your manhood, and for that I sincerely apologize. However, as one man to another, I strongly suggest you seek counsel to reveal the reasons 1) why you feel the need to follow another man {me} around all the time, launching unprovoked attacks, and 2) why you are obsessed with brevity and "shortness of length."

In closing, Jeremy, I will have to respectfully disagree with your opinion on period placement, and I feel my contributions to this thread topic have been made, so that no further comment is necessary.

Take care now,

Jack




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RSL
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« Reply #68 on: October 19, 2011, 05:49:42 PM »
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Jack, There's an old saying: "When you find yourself in a hole, better stop digging." I'd respectfully suggest you stop digging. Your misuse of "to lay" said it all. But you're far from unique. Most Americans in your age group don't understand the difference between those two verbs and can't conjugate either one. I'm sure you can't either. Don't despair. Just stop digging.
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #69 on: October 19, 2011, 06:03:14 PM »
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...
I agree that a corportation represents one or many people.
...
Dear Jack,

I appeal to you as the very embodiment of linguistic perfection: Can you explain to me exactly what a "corportation" is? Youth wants to know.  Undecided

Eric
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-Eric Myrvaagnes

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« Reply #70 on: October 19, 2011, 06:14:36 PM »
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Jeremy is correct, Jack.  In the UK, period use can fall outside the quoted material.  It depends on where it makes more logical sense to place it.  Most people in Canada adhere to the U.S. (aka Philistinian - yes, I made that word up) convention which is strictly that periods go inside the quoted material in all cases.  Damned lazy Americans.  Roll Eyes Tongue  You take out u's willy nilly, replace 's' with 'z' and perform numerous other abominations on the English language.  Kiss

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RSL
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« Reply #71 on: October 19, 2011, 06:16:21 PM »
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Dear Jack,

I appeal to you as the very embodiment of linguistic perfection: Can you explain to me exactly what a "corportation" is? Youth wants to know.  Undecided

Eric

Okay, Eric, I'll have to agree you're a "youth."

p.s. I'm doing this stuff from a motel in Amarillo.
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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #72 on: October 19, 2011, 06:25:43 PM »
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Jeremy is correct, Jack.  In the UK, period use can fall outside the quoted material.  It depends on where it makes more logical sense to place it.  Most people in Canada adhere to the U.S. (aka Philistinian - yes, I made that word up) convention which is strictly that periods go inside the quoted material in all cases.  Damned lazy Americans.  Roll Eyes Tongue  You take out u's willy nilly, replace 's' with 'z' and perform numerous other abominations on the English language.  Kiss


Sounds to me like the British are the lazy ones, who can't make up their minds "where" to put the period, while in fact it is the Americans who are vigilant enough to maintain strict adherence to a credo of placing the period inside the quotation mark at all times Wink

By what convoluted logic do you call strict adherence "lazy" and random placement "logical?"

Jack


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Trevor Murgatroyd
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« Reply #73 on: October 19, 2011, 06:28:21 PM »
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The following arrived today in my daily email from Wordsmith.org:

A THOUGHT FOR TODAY:
Pedantry and mastery are opposite attitudes toward rules. To apply a rule to the letter, rigidly, unquestioningly, in cases where it fits and in cases where it does not fit, is pedantry ... To apply a rule with natural ease, with judgment, noticing the cases where it fits, and without ever letting the words of the rule obscure the purpose of the action or the opportunities of the situation, is mastery. -George Polya, mathematician (1887-1985)


Cheers

Trevor
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #74 on: October 19, 2011, 07:44:05 PM »
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The following arrived today in my daily email from Wordsmith.org:

A THOUGHT FOR TODAY:
Pedantry and mastery are opposite attitudes toward rules. To apply a rule to the letter, rigidly, unquestioningly, in cases where it fits and in cases where it does not fit, is pedantry ... To apply a rule with natural ease, with judgment, noticing the cases where it fits, and without ever letting the words of the rule obscure the purpose of the action or the opportunities of the situation, is mastery. -George Polya, mathematician (1887-1985)


Cheers

Trevor
Thank you, Trevor.
That quote is probably the only post in this thread (including, or perhaps especially, my own) that is worth paying any attention to.

Eric
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Bryan Conner
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« Reply #75 on: October 20, 2011, 12:30:27 AM »
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Now, I was recently reprimanded by Michael again,
.

Again? This means that you have been reprimanded multiple times.  This is not hard to imagine at all.
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kikashi
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« Reply #76 on: October 20, 2011, 02:37:58 AM »
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I had never heard of The Elements of Style. I see now that it is a book on the American dialect of English and I propose to read it with relish. The example I gave was, I think, far too widely-known and well-used to be attributable.

Hey Jeremy,
... aside from you trying to claim you weren't quoting text (when in fact you were) ...

Jack,

Those of us who frequent these forums are used to your semi-coherent rants, with their droll non sequiturs and ludicrous generalisations. Some are upset by them; I treat them in general with simular amused weariness to that with which I treat the occasional (and, thankfully, much rarer) temper tantrums of my six-year-old daughter. Even your vague threats of physical violence (see the penultimate post here) carry a rather feeble, attention-seeking air.

Here, however, you have overstepped the bounds of decency. I will not tolerate your accusing me of lying. I have said that I had never heard of the book you mention: I meant exactly what I said. You have no grounds on which to accuse me of lying and I resent your unfounded accusation of dishonesty.

I insist that you withdraw the accusation as publicly as you made it. If you had any concept of decent behaviour, you would also apologise, but I shan't hold my breath awaiting that.

Jeremy

PS: your accusation should, of course, have read "aside from your trying to claim...".

PPS: Damn it - another self-imposed rule broken already.
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kikashi
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« Reply #77 on: October 20, 2011, 02:39:35 AM »
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That quote is probably the only post in this thread (including, or perhaps especially, my own) that is worth paying any attention to.

That's a little unkind to Lord Templeman, Eric.

Jeremy
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stamper
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« Reply #78 on: October 20, 2011, 03:07:10 AM »
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Good news! I have heard from impeccable sources that Photoshop CS6 will have an apostrophe repair tool. Problem solved. Now about those pesky semicolons...

Is that something to do with prostrate problems?
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kikashi
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« Reply #79 on: October 20, 2011, 03:17:54 AM »
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Is that something to do with prostrate problems?
Who mentioned Chinese emperors?

Jeremy
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