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Author Topic: Banding with Epson R3000 and Canson Baryta  (Read 4990 times)
MarkH2
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« on: October 15, 2011, 01:32:00 PM »
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I have head strikes and banding when printing on Canson Baryta Photographique 8.5 x 11 inch paper with an Epson Stylus Photo R3000.

I have changed Platen Gap to "Wide" and used Paper Thicknesses from 3 all the way to the max value of 13.  The banding problem decreases with increased thickness but is still very pronounced at max thickness.

The band is about 0.4 inches wide starting at 1 9/16 inch from the trailing edge.  It is more pronounced at the lower edge.

Canson tech support says they used gap set to Wide and Thickness of 5 when they tested the R3000.

I am not having banding problems with other thick/heavy media, such as Epson Exhibition Fiber and Epson Cold Press Bright.

Problem occurs with both the sheet feed (recommended for this media) and the front fine art feed.

Is anyone else having this problem with the R3000 and Canson Baryta?  Any recommended solutions?
Thanks
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MarkH2
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2011, 10:43:33 PM »
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Update:

The Canson tech who did the profiles for the Epson R3000 found the same problem I am having.  He was able to resolve it on his particular printer with the platen and paper thickness settings previously described.  Since there are no further adjustments possible with the R3000 I am out of luck for my particular unit.

He also noted that this paper swells at the time of printing, which may be the cause, but the banding problem did not appear on other printers they tested, just the R3000.

So I am still looking for a good Baryta to use with the R3000.  I have some Hahnemuhle Fineart Baryta 325 on order.
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MarkH2
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« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2011, 03:41:34 PM »
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Update #2, for anyone following this:

Success with Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta 325 gsm, 8.5 x 11 inch.  Sheet feed.  Media setting Ultra Premium Photo Paper Luster, as recommended by Hahnemule.  Platen gap standard.  Thickness 3.

I am liking the texture a lot more than the Canson, as well as the white.
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MarkH2
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« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2011, 01:39:37 PM »
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Update:

I asked Hahnemuhle what settings they use with the R3000 for their FineArt Baryta 325 gsm paper.  They replied that they determined a paper thickness setting of 3 works best "with all of our papers" on the R3000.

They also generally use the Front - Fine Art feed for printing on their papers. However, "a few Epson R3000 models tended to have striping using the front feed. If any problems appear with your R3000 please use the rear [sheet] feed."

With regard to platen gap: "The platen gap might be changed to 'wider' with our Baryta papers because it has a very sensitive surface. All the other pearl and matte papers deliver best results when using the standard setting."
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MrJPH
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« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2013, 05:28:31 PM »
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Hello Mark,

You don't know how glad I was to find this post of your's, as I recently got the R3000, and am wanting to use Canson's Baryta Photographique paper for my clients prints.

When I got the R3000, I also ordered multiple paper sample packs to find the paper I liked and wanted to use.  I used Canson, Hahnemühle, Epson's own papers, and Museo.  The two winners were Canson's Baryta Photographique, and Hahnemühle's Fine Art Baryta.  Because of the feel of Canson's Baryta, how it feels coated and smooth on both front and back, I am wanting to use that for my client's Portraiture Print orders, whereas Hahnemühle's Baryta back just feels like heavy paper stock in the hand... and since client's prints will be handled more by them, handing them out, showing, etc., why I prefer Canson's.  And will just leave Hahnemühle's for my Fine Art Prints that will just be hung and never handled, and most likely matted anyway prior to them getting them.  I also think Hahnemühle's Baryta is a little too textured than I like for client's prints, but is perfectly acceptable for hanging only purposes.

So, ordered a box of Canson's Baryta Photographique at 13" x 19", got it yesterday, and did some prints today, and very disappointingly and frustratingly got exactly what you described, the printer heads scraping the tops of the paper! 

First print (I was printing two different 8" images on the paper, one on top, one on the bottom), it started 2 7/8" down from the leading edge, about 5 3/4" in and continues for an 1 3/8", then nothing, but then got two more, starting again 10 7/8" down, 4" in and 6 3/4" in, and both continue for about an inch and half, and 2 inches, respectively.

I did the same thing and went in and increased the Platen Gap from 'Standard' to 'Wide', that helped a bit, it removed it completely from the top, but the two remained on the bottom. 

So, went back again and increased the Paper Depth, to from '3' to '4', and since I am wasting paper here, since I got a non-scraped image this time on the top image, I moved the bottom image to the top position, and added a couple smaller images to the bottom... the bottom images printed perfectly fine... but the same two scrape marks on the top image, in the same positions within the image.

I contacted Epson, and they just told me it must be the paper.  Great, gee thanks.

I will go at it again tomorrow, and try moving the depth up to '5', and hopefully I get the unproblematic results that Canson says they received at that setting, even though you said it never did for you... that really disappoints me, as well as you having completely dumped Canson and went with Hahnemühle's... I don't want to use Hahnemühle for my clients for the reason I cited, I just don't like the feel of the paper in my hand compared to Canson's, as well as the texture compared to Canson's smoother finish.

Nobody replied to Mark's post, has no one else encountered any issues with this printer / paper combination?  I know from watching the Camera to Print to Screen tutorials, that Mr. Reichmann likes also Canson' Baryta Photographique, and in the video, he sets up and uses the R3000, I wonder if he has encountered any issues with the two... sir, if you ever frequent these posts, I would certainly love to learn!  :-)  I want to use this paper!

Thanks for any help, or suggestions someone may offer.

All the best to you,
JPH
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mvsoske
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« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2013, 05:56:40 PM »
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I don't know if I can be of any help since I use the 3880, but does the driver in the 3000 allow you to increase the drying time between head passes and/or ink density?  I've had success with some problem surfaces by increasing the drying time to the max and decreasing the density to deal with surface swelling that sometimes causes problems.

Mark
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MrJPH
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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2013, 06:20:38 PM »
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Hi Mark,

Yeah, it does, and that was going to be my next thing I was going to try as a solution... which I hope it does, as I said ad nauseam - I really want to use this paper, and so hope that I can get the two to work together!

I have done four prints total, and all four have the same scrapes at the same locations in the print, and nowhere else... what's odd though, it isn't really a high density area in the image... well, the area of the second scrape may be, and maybe that is what is causing it all... will see...

Thank you for the suggestion, it is what I will do next!

All the best to you Mark,
Jeff
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MarkH2
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« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2013, 07:49:44 PM »
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... sir, if you ever frequent these posts, I would certainly love to learn!  


Mr. JPH,

I have no further update on my trials.  I did not try increasing the drying time as Mark V. has suggested and you are about to try.  The reasoning certainly makes sense.  I hope it works!  If so, I will have to give the Canson another try on my unit.

I too hope Michael or Jeff can add something here.

Good luck!
Mark

« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 07:55:23 PM by MarkH2 » Logged
KSonde
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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2013, 08:31:35 AM »
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I haven't used Canson Baryta with my R3000 but I have cured head strikes I was having with Ilford Gold Fibre Silk. The first thing I do is pre-bend the paper in the opposite direction it wants to buckle when printing. I do this by just rolling it back and forth with my hands before feeding it into the printer. Then I set a box of 8.5x11 printing paper in the outfeed tray so that the paper is supported by the box when it exits the printer and does not bend down under its own weight. This seems to work well for me and it's worth a try with the Canson paper. Here's hoping.

Kurt
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hanzo
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2013, 09:55:56 AM »
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If it can be any help.. I had the same problem with IGFS on large dark areas. I tried to widen the gap to no avail as well..
The solution is very simple.. just change the print speed to 'Quality'..
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MrJPH
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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2013, 04:45:14 PM »
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Here is all that was done by me to solve the issue of the printer heads on Epson's Stylus Photo R3000 scraping the top of Canson's Baryta Photographique paper:

- 1st, Platen Gap setting was changed from 'Standard' to 'Wide'  ...  Problem still continued
- 2nd, Paper Thickness setting was changed from '3' to '4'  ...  Problem still continued
- 3rd, Paper Thickness setting changed from '4' to '5' (.5mm) ... Problem still continued

At this point, heard back from very helpful, Gerard, at Canson...

- 4th, I went in Page Setup (Mac OS), and manually created a straight, basic 13" x 19" Paper Size  ...  Doing that allowed me to not be forced to front load the paper as my only option, but to now be able to top load it...
- 5th, then went in and changed the Drying Time per Print Head Pass to '10' (one second)  ...  During printing, still heard the slightest scraping of the print heads upon the paper, but upon completion, the print showed no visible signs of it
- 6th, To eliminate that slightest contact of print heads with the top of the paper, increased the Drying Time per Print Head Pass to '15' (one and a half seconds), so as to give the swelling of the paper just a hair extra time to go down before the next print head pass

And that did the trick!  I continued to do multiple prints after that, some with some heavy density portions in the images to really test it, and prints came out beautiful, without any scrapes at all, both audibly heard during printing, and naturally, visually upon completion.

So MarkH2, if you want to save the good chunk of change by being able to use Canson's Baryta Photographique again, and not just Hahnemühle's Fine Art Baryta for every print job, as well as anyone else coming to this thread with a similar issue, try the following settings and see if you get the same results:

- Platen Gap to 'Wide'
- Paper Thickness setting to '5'
- Top load the paper instead of front loading
- increase the Drying Time per Print Head Pass setting to '15', or somewhere between '10' and '15'

And hopefully you also get your images printed beautifully on the paper without incident. 

Yes, it does substantially increase the print time... I never did time the print job duration, but would say it was probably around 15 minutes to print a full 13" x 19" sheet.  For me, that is not an issue at all, as I am not printing in bulk quantities, but will average around 5 sheets an order, so I don't mind the waiting time, as long as the end result, is the wonderful looking prints that Canson's Baryta Photographique produces, without aberrations on it's surface from it's swelling during the printing process.

I for one am a very happy camper, for as I said - I wanted to use Canson's paper for my Portraiture Clients, and am very pleased that I will be able to... and not have to also use (and pay) to use the very same paper, that you ended up using MarkH2 - Hahnemühle's Fine Art Baryta (though I will still use it for my Fine Art print jobs).

All the best to you all, and happy shooting (and printing)!
Jeff
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MarkH2
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« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2013, 08:15:00 PM »
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Jeff,

Congratulations, your tenacity paid off!

I will definitely give your method a try.

Thank you for such a thorough report.  (One of the many reasons I like LULA folks.)

Mark
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afx
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« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2013, 04:00:21 AM »
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Quite interesting read, as I am lucky to not have that issue on my R3000 (using A3+) with the Canson paper.
Guess manufacturing tolerances are to blame here.

Thanks for the pointer to the custom paper definition. That could come in handy when experimenting with other paper.

cheers
afx
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