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Author Topic: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability  (Read 60408 times)
Doug Peterson
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« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2011, 08:20:33 AM »
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Just shows you that megapixels is not the only, or maybe even major qualifier for all camera buyers any more. The 1DX is very clearly targeted at those who need run-and-gun speed, fast-action-capture, or flexible field-reporting video and still capture in a body that will hold up to a lot of pro abuse. Most of those applications (wedding/sports/reportage/documentary/wild-life) does not require even 18mp (see also: success of reasonably contemporary Nikon D3).

As a related comparison: Pre-owned P21H with warranty: $3990 (back only)
Also 18mp. Larger sensor. Flexibility to use on a variety of cameras including tech cameras built exclusively for architecture/landscape (shift/rise/tilt on every lens), and bodies with leaf shutter lenses for sync with pro strobes/light-shapers at any shutter speed, and bodies with a waist-level viewfinder (RZ/H). Fast/reliable firewire tethering. Available today rather than 5-8 months (assuming slow/strained availability after launch). But with much lower ISO, much slower max frame rates, less speedy/accurate continuous autofocus, and no video.

Both tools will make instant sense to those who's needs align with the product's specs.


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torger
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« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2011, 08:35:13 AM »
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They have not announced any 5Dmk2 replacement yet. It is not unlikely that the 5Dmk3 or whatever will be a high resolution low speed camera, similar to the rumoured D800 from Nikon (possibly 36 mp). So those who wanted lots of megapixels, don't be disappointed just yet.

Anyway, higher pixel count than these 18 on the 1Dx is really only useful for tripod mounted still life photography with very detailed subjects, such as vast landscapes. Thus it is very logical to make a pro model with high ISO and high speed and keep down pixel count -- making the best out of the things the 135 format is good for. If you want high res and is a professional, go to medium format.

High resolution 135 is really only for people who cannot afford digital medium format, so it is more of a niche camera. I hope for it to come though, because I'm precisely one of those amateur photographers that love still life photography and wants but cannot afford medium format, so I want a cheaper alternative :-). And as said, I think 5Dmk3 may be such a product. We'll see.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 08:37:31 AM by torger » Logged
Hulyss
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« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2011, 08:41:07 AM »
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Isn't it overpriced, at roughly $7,000?

Great video specs (50Mbps is fantastic, with continuous recording) - but at a price point that is higher than an AF100 or FS100? Tough sell.

Don't speak about overpriced products !!!

Im using Sigma DSLR ... Angry Embarrassed
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2011, 08:42:08 AM »
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High resolution 135 is really only for people who cannot afford digital medium format, so it is more of a niche camera.

Interesting way to put it... a niche hosting 99% of the people needing high resolutions. :-)

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 09:24:31 AM by BernardLanguillier » Logged

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Ellis Vener
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« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2011, 09:05:31 AM »
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I'm with you on this. At first glance it seems to have the same specs as my T2i Rebel, albeit with more dynamic range and less noise which I could care less about. And for $6800? Does any 1D user need full frame? This is insulting to Canon 1Ds users who depend on our cameras for landscapes and architectural work. What are they thinking?

I had an extensive  press briefing about the EOS 1D X last week. It is indeed a replacement for both the 1Ds MArk III and 1D Mark IV. The thinking behind going to an 18mp CMOS instead of upping the pixel count above 21.x Mp of the 5D MArk II and 1Ds Mark III is that by  lowering the total number of pixels  the individual photo sites are "1.25 microns larger...  6.95 microns in the 1Dx" vs 5.7 microns in the 1Ds Mark III" the image quality will be improved -even at low ISO settings. At some point physics sticks its nose in and creates  limitations as to how small the individual photosites can be before image quality suffers beyond the ability of the in camera signal processors to rectify to Canon's satisfaction.

The improvements will be seen, according to Chuck Westfall of Canon who briefed me (and I suspect Rob Galbraith as well but he was not in on the briefing that I was) , in  the signal to noise ratio, and in a larger  dynamic range.


As someone who photographs architecture for clients (as well as industrial, corporate and advertising work) I am surprised to see someone else who shoots architecture complain about a camera which in theory will provide cleaner shadows and greater separation in bright highlights. According to Canon, if you are shooting JPEGs or movies the improvement is a full two stops. As to "raw" s/n differences they did not have specs for yet.

If you shoot portraits or fashion the 33% decrease in mirror black out time between frames (from 90 to 60 milliseconds ) will be welcome.

Auto-focus micro adjustment tool improvements: If you use zoom lenses you'll be able to register adjustments for both the long and wide ends of the zoom range and register  individual adjustment settings for different lenses of the same design ( i.e. if your studio has multiple 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II lenses you can fine tune AF  lens performance for each lens).

Something not many people are picking up on yet is that for tethered shooting - the choices are USB 2.0 or gigabyte LAN - no Firewire 800, USB 3.0 or even Thunderbolt.  The idea behind going with gigabyte Ethernet is faster throughput, it is more ubiquitous, and if you are shootign with multiple cameras makes it far easier (Apparently) to sync all of the cameras via .

As someone who regularly schlepps around hundreds of pounds of lighting and grip gear If I can also get "ISO 100 image quality" at ISO 400, 640 or 800  with lighter weight lighting gear - so much the better.
My take on it is that most of the features are indeed geared toward sports photographers and that wedding ( white dress next to black tux is horrible lighting)  and event photographers will also benefit.  

In a follow up email I asked about bottom of the camera dimensions which would be of interest to those of us who use body fitting quick release plates. As much as I like Really Right Stuff gear, I'd raqther not have to purchase a new set of plates. The  answer from Canon is that some will fit and some will not. Given that the 1Dx body dimesions are slightly taller  and the main part of the body slightly thicker (the battery appears to be the same physical size as the one used in the 1Ds MArk III and 1D Mark III & IV) I suspect that if use L shaped plates the ports on the left side of the 1D X body will not line up with the cut outs on an L plate designed for the 1D III/IV and 1DsMkIII.

If you have more questions, I'll try to answer them as I have several pages of notes.
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Ellis Vener
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Ellis Vener
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« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2011, 09:11:17 AM »
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Interesting way to put it... a nice hosting 99% of the people needing high resolutions. :-)

Cheers,
Bernard

A more polite way of looking at it is that with the 1D X Canon is targeting the vast majority of professional photographers. While for some of the things I use a camera for more pixels would be really nice, I think Canon is looking at how how 22-33mp MFD options are getting into the same price range as a 1Ds MArk III and D3x  and asking themselves why should they should spend millions competing for what really is a very small niche market?
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Ellis Vener
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Stefan.Steib
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« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2011, 09:22:36 AM »
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Ellis

in the pressrelease they state something about "seamless microlenses" - Id imagine this puts additional light to the sensors and enhances the sensitivty.
Is there any info about this new technology ?

Greetings from Munich
Stefan
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2011, 09:25:53 AM »
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A more polite way of looking at it is that with the 1D X Canon is targeting the vast majority of professional photographers. While for some of the things I use a camera for more pixels would be really nice, I think Canon is looking at how how 22-33mp MFD options are getting into the same price range as a 1Ds MArk III and D3x  and asking themselves why should they should spend millions competing for what really is a very small niche market?

Sure, no disagreement. I meant that within the photographers needing high resolutions 99% will be using DSLRs and 1% will be using a MFDB.

Cheers,
Bernard
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deejjjaaaa
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« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2011, 09:36:33 AM »
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=

in the pressrelease they state something about "seamless microlenses" - Id imagine this puts additional light to the sensors and enhances the sensitivty.
Is there any info about this new technology ?


apparently it is just a new marketing name for old gapless microlenses...

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Ellis Vener
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« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2011, 09:40:23 AM »
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Ellis

in the pressrelease they state something about "seamless microlenses" - Id imagine this puts additional light to the sensors and enhances the sensitivty.
Is there any info about this new technology ?

Greetings from Munich
Stefan
Stefan,
All (or almost all) modern DSLR cameras use Micro-lens arrays. The purpose is to increase light gathering and to correct for the increasingly oblique angles  light rays are coming at the off axis portions of the sensor. This is just Canon's newest iteration of that technology. In an ideal world the individual elements in a micro-lens array lenses would automatically reshape themselves based on the lens being used. I don't that is happening here.
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Ellis Vener
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JohnBrew
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« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2011, 10:06:14 AM »
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What makes you think that the D800 will be the only camera to be released by Nikon?

The rumored D4 should be exactly what you are looking for.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard, perhaps but I prefer the smaller body camera Smiley
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DanielStone
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« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2011, 10:23:31 AM »
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I like the ethernet port feature. Very nice compared to the old standard FW connection. I guess its for those "massive" video files generated by this new camera.

probably better for people who shoot tethered too, less chance of the cable coming out when moving around a lot

-Dan
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JohnTodd
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« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2011, 10:26:21 AM »
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Canon have already shown that they can step back from the megapixel race with the G series.
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Jan Morales
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« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2011, 10:29:15 AM »
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Different people have different needs and wants from a camera, but this is the kind of photography I do: I shoot 99% of the time at ISO 100. I don't need high ISOs. I shoot 99% of the time in single shot mode. I don't need high FPS. My goal is large prints (17" wide paper) at the highest possible resolution, ideally a minimum of 300 DPI. I would love to have an entire MF setup, but I just can't afford it. I can just about afford my 1DsIII and a couple of really good Canon lenses, and with that I almost reach my DPI goal on 17" paper. So while I have no doubt that the 1DX is a phenomenal camera which will make many photographers very happy, I don't think it's enough to get me to upgrade.

I'm really hoping Canon has something else up their sleeve coming up in the near future. But at the same time I'm very happy with my 1DsIII. My only serious complaint is that manual focus on the low resolution LCD in Live View is an exercise in frustration. Frankly, if Canon had come out with a 1DsIV with the high resolution LCD, HDMI output, and even a slight bump in resolution (24MP, say), that might have been enough for me. But for 18MP I just don't see the point.
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Stefan.Steib
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« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2011, 10:32:11 AM »
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Thanks for the graph- I did not know that one. So it seems this is just existing technology maybe a bit enhanced.
The shaping of the lenses to adopt for differing focal lenght would also make sense, maybe that could be achieved with a microstepping motor similar to the one which is used to shake the chip for cleaning, or on the Sonys the IS stabilization.
It will be interesting though to see if the HI mode (up to 204000 Asa) will be better as the older version with 100000  on the Mk4. I think most of it will come from the Pixel increase which is about 50 % more net coverage. This should be significant.

Greetings from Munich
Stefan
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erickb
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« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2011, 11:03:01 AM »
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Larger Pixels are great
pixel race sucks ,  well done Canon

if you want more pixel buy a  MF
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 11:21:01 AM by erickb » Logged
stevesanacore
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« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2011, 11:18:07 AM »
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A more polite way of looking at it is that with the 1D X Canon is targeting the vast majority of professional photographers. While for some of the things I use a camera for more pixels would be really nice, I think Canon is looking at how how 22-33mp MFD options are getting into the same price range as a 1Ds MArk III and D3x  and asking themselves why should they should spend millions competing for what really is a very small niche market?

Any pro knows that most of our work does not require more than 18MP - but - most of our clients and semi-pro-amateurs will never buy that. Then there are some of us that sell very large fine art prints where 36MP would be very welcome as an alternative to MF. But maybe Canon thinks that market just isn't big enough, I think they are wrong. Bottom line - i just don't get the price ..... a 1D mk4 replacement for $6800? I have purchased the latest Canon pro bodies every time they have released one since the original 1Ds - this is the first one I have no interest in.

I don't mean to rant, and this camera may be perfect for many pros, personally I am just very disappointed.



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ixania2
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« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2011, 11:56:22 AM »
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sports without 1.3 crop - not much gain compared to 1DM3.
Canon wants you to buy new longer expensive glass...
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Ellis Vener
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« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2011, 12:41:26 PM »
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Thanks for the graph- I did not know that one. So it seems this is just existing technology maybe a bit enhanced.
The shaping of the lenses to adopt for differing focal lenght would also make sense, maybe that could be achieved with a microstepping motor similar to the one which is used to shake the chip for cleaning, or on the Sonys the IS stabilization.

Greetings from Munich
Stefan
No you'd need lenses which change their shape which would mean liquid filled elements and some very clever electronics on a nanotube scale to make it work.
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Ellis Vener
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2011, 12:55:18 PM »
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Hej,

Perhaps Canon has invented a negative gap?

Best regards
Erik

apparently it is just a new marketing name for old gapless microlenses...


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