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Author Topic: Help needed, please  (Read 4665 times)
Tony Jay
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« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2011, 06:34:00 AM »
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Elena

I am somewhat new to the business of printing - a week to be precise!

However I carefully investigated the art (and science) of colour management for some months.
This was to allow me to use the printer first thing up.
It is true that my printing is still in the experimental phase with me taking an iterative approach with certain photographs through the process of soft proofing and printing on only two types of papers and then going back to the files and tweaking them in either CS5 or LR3. I have practiced printing through both LR3 and PS5.
Only one "disaster" so far that was easily fixed by carefully retweaking a raw file where an original post=processing was far too exuberant - gave a rainbow I photographed the wierdest colours.

The point I really want to make is that the business of colour management while really important is not impossible to understand. I am a newbie to printing yet successfully set and ran an Epson 7900 and am already in a position to be able to predict (to a point) what results I might get with the limited range of papers I am using.

I used two books: Martin Evening's Adobe Photoshop for Photographers, and the collabarative effort between Martin Evening and Jeff Schewe. I highly recommend both these titles.
In addition I also used the LuLa guide: Camera to Print and Screen, which is still incomplete however all the colour management segments have been covered (I think).
With the information gained from these sources as already stated I have been able get my printing into a functional state within a few days.
But this did not happen by accident:
I bought a high end NEC with built in hardware profiling (the same model demonstrated in one of the LuLa tutorials I think),
Months ago already I downloaded ICC profiles for a several papers I thought I might like to use for the printers I was contemplating (Epson 7900 and 4900) as well the printer drivers for these printers and practiced softproofing and printer setup to get familiar with the process. (By the way I also have QImage.)

I can only reiterate that the process is iterative, theory to practive, and back to theory.
The frustration I detect in certain senior members posts is due to the fact that the information is all out there and easily accessable.
I have to confess that even with my admittedly still limited knowledge of the whole printing process many of the options you allude to in your setup are decidedly illogical.

A quick and easy way forward would be be to buy Michael and Jeff's guide Camera to Print and Screen.
I heartily endorse this product and if you won't accept a plug from Jeff I hope you will accept a plug from me.
A couple of hours viewing will allow you to logically approach your colour management setup.

I promise you this is not particulary hard - especially as Michael and Jeff are exceptional, if somewhat wacky, teachers.

Good Luck!

Tony Jay
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bjanes
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« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2011, 08:44:28 AM »
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Something that is absolutely wrong is setting printer profile to Adobe RGB, printer profile must be a profile specific for Printer/Ink/Paper.

Erik,

What you say is normally true, but in his color management tutorial (C2PS_15_CM) Jeff Schewe uses a trick to sent data directly to the printer without color management for printer profiling. He assigns AdobeRGB to a file and then prints it with AdobeRGB selected as the printer profile. Since the source and destination profiles are the same, no change in the data numbers of the file is needed.

However, the OP is not doing proofing and this method would not be appropriate for her situation.

Regards,

Bill
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KeithR
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« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2011, 09:06:35 AM »
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What you say is normally true, but in his color management tutorial (C2PS_15_CM) Jeff Schewe uses a trick to sent data directly to the printer without color management for printer profiling. He assigns AdobeRGB to a file and then prints it with AdobeRGB selected as the printer profile. Since the source and destination profiles are the same, no change in the data numbers of the file is needed.

I may be wrong since it's been a while since I saw that video, but I believe Jeff was explaining how to send profile target patches to print through CS5(since Adobe took 2 steps back on this) in order to print the targets with no color management. I don't think he would recommend this for normal printing.
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The destination is our goal but it’s the journey that educates us.
bjanes
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« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2011, 07:25:01 AM »
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I may be wrong since it's been a while since I saw that video, but I believe Jeff was explaining how to send profile target patches to print through CS5(since Adobe took 2 steps back on this) in order to print the targets with no color management. I don't think he would recommend this for normal printing.

That is correct.

Regards,

Bill
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Elena
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« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2013, 10:40:50 PM »
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Hello,
thank you for all responses. We have found the answer! so, i write to those who are in trouble with printing and found this tread in hope for the answer. Maybe this will help you. Our problem was Photoshop CS3.

Here is our story: we bought Epson PRo 9800 and couldn't achieve good prints with good photos. The colours were darker, and 'dirtier'. Then my husband took private lessons . That didn't change printing results. (yes, our monitor was calibrated, yes, photos were good, yes, my husband understands color management)  After that i decided myself to see all those video lessons together with my husband, one by one, that didn't help us either! (no, we were not stupid, we were naive, because we believed( I believed) that we dont' know enough of color management, like many of you are saying here)
Since all the LL color management didn’t work for us,  i started to search internet about color managment on PS and follow all kinds of the advises, which didn't work either. That was the time when i posted my question here, where tread exploded with suggestions to learn color management!  Smiley
I read all your answers, thank you!

Remember, our problem was that our prints were dark, like with a grey tint on it. We could see it even on Photoshop when we were soft proofing the images.
I was already thinking to sell this printer, but then we decided to ‘get a grip’ and FIND what is wrong. 

We decided to eliminate every possibility than can cause the problem with printing, one by one.
1.Fist we checked how printer driver works, we printed colour table with only print driver involved. Colours were clean and saturated.
2.Second, to eliminate any possibility that our photos were not good, we started to print an image I made in PS with primary colours from photoshop palette. but they were dark again.
3.Next we decided to eliminate and possibility that Photoshop is at fault.(Remember, with color management we tried different theories including LL color management, none of the worked, so we were not paying attention to it at that moment, but we kept LL color management color settings). So, we printed from another computer with Photoshop CS6, and grey tint disappeared!
With right profile and color settings our prints are now clean and saturated and … happy

We are printing now from Photoshop CS6 and with soft proofing we can see almost exactly what is going to be printed.
Happy ending finally...
If you have problem with printing – eliminate every possibility that can cause a problem one by one, that could be your printer driver, quality of photos,  colour management, image software (driver/profiles/etc).

Don’t be stuck in color management for few years, like us!  Good luck!

And to Jeff :
I apologize for my harsh words – they came out of frustration, because we already knew all the color management by heart.

To Geraldo Garcia   for saying this: "I would say that nothing stated here or anywhere will help you as, most likely, it won´t be understood either"
You look at the problem with too shallow angle. You have to be higher to see deeper.
But thank you anyway.

And to everybody who replied -Thank you for your time and support!

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Tony Jay
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« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2013, 05:20:47 AM »
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Well I am glad that you sorted finally Elena!

Tony Jay
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