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Author Topic: Epson ABW selection grayed out (CS5)  (Read 19716 times)
madmanchan
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« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2011, 03:02:42 PM »
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If using Photoshop, will it work if you convert to the desired ABW profile just before printing?

I am not sure, but I don't think so.  I made the ABW profiles when printing targets in "No Color Management" mode (different driver path).  When using "Printer Manages Color" one is then using a different driver path from the one I used to build the profiles.  So the baseline is different, and the results will likely be different.  I would have to do some testing to be sure, though.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2011, 03:34:41 PM »
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If using Photoshop, will it work if you convert to the desired ABW profile just before printing?

In that case: Convert in PS P2P to the B&W printer profile and assign after that sRGB or AdobeRGB, whatever profile ABW would expect or assign itself.  More or less how I used QTR custom made B&W profiles in Qimage for HP's B&W mode on the Z models (printer CM on like HP recommends) when Qimage could not be trusted with QTR profiles. Give it a try. An HP Z model may act different with printer CM on.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst

330+ paper white spectral plots including the Canon US catalog:

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm


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Farmer
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« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2011, 03:38:56 PM »
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Alan - the Windows driver already does this (changes to match settings based on the application settings), but Windows, as an OS, doesn't lock you out from then changing it whereas OS X does.  So, unless Microsoft change the process in Windows, you'll be able to continue to override the settings made by the application.

In both cases, the driver is respecting the paradigm set by the OS.
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #43 on: November 03, 2011, 04:11:07 PM »
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Alan - the Windows driver already does this (changes to match settings based on the application settings), but Windows, as an OS, doesn't lock you out from then changing it whereas OS X does.  So, unless Microsoft change the process in Windows, you'll be able to continue to override the settings made by the application.

In both cases, the driver is respecting the paradigm set by the OS.
Thanks for the comment and I understand this.  What I don't know is when Epson made the change to the driver.  They have posted an updated Windows driver in mid-September which I've not downloaded.  I'm still printing from the original driver that came with the 3880 (don't know the version number of the driver as I've tried finding it but with little luck so far since it doesn't have a straight forward name.  I'm in the same camp with Eric on this as it is certainly convenient to be able to soft proof and linearize the gray scale when using the ABW driver.  The alternative of course would be to create some profiles with lots of B/W patches for printing out using the normal Epson driver with the traditional color manged work flow (one can do this easily enough using ArgylCMS) but then one doesn't get some of the advantages of using the ABW driver (greater Dmax and an easy to use toning wheel).  Life is full of tradeoffs as we all know.
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Farmer
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« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2011, 04:33:05 PM »
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Printer Properties, then click on the Version Information tab - should tell you the version.

I'd suggest looking to udpate your driver - it won't stop you doing what you're doing on Windows.  If you don't like it, you can always uninstall and reinstall from the CD but it shouldn't present you with any problems.
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #45 on: November 03, 2011, 05:20:23 PM »
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Printer Properties, then click on the Version Information tab - should tell you the version.

I'd suggest looking to udpate your driver - it won't stop you doing what you're doing on Windows.  If you don't like it, you can always uninstall and reinstall from the CD but it shouldn't present you with any problems.
Silly me, I was checking it without the printer being turned on (big duh moment)!  Got the driver number now.  I'll give the new driver a tryout and see what happens.  I do like the ability to use the ABW feature with the profiles.

thanks,

Alan
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abiggs
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« Reply #46 on: March 29, 2012, 07:28:18 AM »
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What's the latest on this situation? I dove into the issue yesterday, and no matter which path I take (Printer manages colors or Photoshop manages colors) the ABW option is *not* available in the printer driver. I am using the latest drivers for OSX 10.7.x for all of my Epson printers (9900, 2880, 3880, 4900, R3000) and I simply cannot locate any ABW functionality no matter what I do.

It's not that big of a deal, since I don't like the 'normal' ABW methodology, but I am trying to update my knowledge on what the latest scenario looks like.

Huh?
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Andy Biggs
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2012, 10:04:29 AM »
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The latest scenario is purchasing a PC till M$ gives way to A$ CM dominance too.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
Shareware too:
330+ paper white spectral plots:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
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abiggs
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« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2012, 01:46:25 PM »
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I was having a whole bunch of issues with my Mac Pro after my OSX Lion upgrade, so I decided to install Lion from scratch. Well, amazingly, all issues have been resolved. Sucks that something so simple, like an OS upgrade, can wreak so much havoc on my machine that I have to reinstall the OS.

Oh well, at least I have some Rolling Stones playing loudly in the background.
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Andy Biggs
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« Reply #49 on: March 30, 2012, 02:02:35 AM »
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Andy - which main black do you currently have active in your printer?
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mlecler
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« Reply #50 on: March 30, 2012, 04:06:36 AM »
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Hello,

After installing 10.6.8, i had the bug, i wasn't able to use profiles with ABW. I fixed the bug by installing the driver version 6.11 for my 3800 and it is working properly. I don't know if it will be the same with Lion. Before you install 6.11, remove your printer from the printer's list in Prefs. Now i have access to ABW both ways.
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #51 on: March 30, 2012, 08:01:52 AM »
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Hello,

After installing 10.6.8, i had the bug, i wasn't able to use profiles with ABW. I fixed the bug by installing the driver version 6.11 for my 3800 and it is working properly. I don't know if it will be the same with Lion. Before you install 6.11, remove your printer from the printer's list in Prefs. Now i have access to ABW both ways.
Please go back and read this thread.  This is not a "bug" but the way the Apple OS and the Epson driver are supposed to work (Win7 implementation still allows one to use ABW profiles but that could change).
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Farmer
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« Reply #52 on: March 30, 2012, 04:25:50 PM »
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The latest scenario is purchasing a PC till M$ gives way to A$ CM dominance too.

Hmm, thought I had replied earlier but can't see it - I must have closed the window or something :-)

Anyway, this seems like a strange response from you, Ernst.

Adobe didn't set this new paradigm.  Apple started and Adobe complied.  Microsoft also implimented a change but just not as restrictive as Apple (which is probably par for the course, really).  This is not an Adobe initiative - Adobe had to spend resources on developing the Colour Print Utility which is given away to help to deal with these changes, and they've had to spend time redesigning the printing workflow in CS6 (if you haven't had a look already, you should - that's a general "you" not just to Ernst).

This is mostly the result of Apple trying to force colour management on the masses who have no idea it even exists, let alone how to use it.
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2012, 10:54:04 PM »
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Ernst's post makes perfect sense to me, if you read A$ as referring to Apple rather than Adobe. My Windows machines have no problems with color management so far. That is, until M$...
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Farmer
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« Reply #54 on: March 31, 2012, 02:24:37 AM »
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Ernst's post makes perfect sense to me, if you read A$ as referring to Apple rather than Adobe. My Windows machines have no problems with color management so far. That is, until M$...

Maybe - but why would Microsoft give way to Apple and in what way are Apple the dominant CM provider?  /shrug

Microsoft already allows apps to set the driver correctly, they just don't lock you out from changing it yourself (whereas Apple does).
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #55 on: March 31, 2012, 03:03:36 AM »
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Anyway, this seems like a strange response from you, Ernst.


The risk of abbreviations. Eric guessed right. I thought that Apple being the largest company of the world (in shares) and squeezing every cent from its customers and Foxconn employees, could be represented with an A$. I'm aware the name is not Applesoft. Like Microsoft in the past it now tries to dictate what standards should be. The Flash controversy and now the new SIM standard, there are more. The Safari CM oddity in assigning monitor profiles to untagged images is considered stupid even by Colorsync gurus. Mac Safari users do not represent more than 10% of the web population, any other browser with CM running assigns sRGB to untagged images.

Rumor has it that Microsoft could switch to a similar OS CM policy, the day the only transparent CM in an OS is found in a Linux distribution like Ubuntu is not far away. That Adobe removed the "No-CM" option in Windows versions of its applications is the result of Apple's obstinate CM policies, not a result of a flaw in Windows CM.

Right now the masses use Windows on their PCs and they could get their CM perfect, now and in the past, in a transparent system that hardly changed over the last 5 years. The minority that has Macs have struggled with all kinds of CM changes, flaws, bugs over the last 5 years. Mac experts and the user "masses" alike. Just check the CM threads on many forums. The mobile masses did not get CM at all whether running Symbian, iOS, Android, though the last has more CM fundamentals aboard than the other two. Not really a problem till printers are hooked up, image editing is already happening on tablets and alike. Soon we will get another nice task on the forums and in the print shops, educate the mobile masses :-)


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
Shareware too:
330+ paper white spectral plots:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
soon Harman by Hahnemühle papers included + some new Innovas.
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FrankG
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« Reply #56 on: November 28, 2014, 06:40:57 PM »
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I posted a new thread as the forum suggested I do since this one is more than 6 months old, but I was referred back to this thread by a member, so.....

It is well established that profiles (Eric Chan's) cannot be used with ABW.

As an alternative route, is it a good practice to print out of photoshop using Eric Chan's ABW profiles?
(seems they should be called something else as it's misleading to think you can use them in ABW)

I know many people have RIPs but I'm not inquiring about that at the moment
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TylerB
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« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2014, 12:20:39 PM »
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...
As an alternative route, is it a good practice to print out of photoshop using Eric Chan's ABW profiles?
(seems they should be called something else as it's misleading to think you can use them in ABW)
...

They were made using ABW so in fact their names are correct. If they are relevant to your printer model (he stopped making them at some point I believe) then of course using them could be worthwhile. The workaround for the Adobe/Epson/OS evolution away from having them available in the print dialogs is to preconvert your file to that profile before printing, then continuing on through with printer color management and the appropriate print settings. Just don't hit save, an output profile is not the best space for an archived final. It's a simple one step workaround.
Whether or not one can softproof has to do with the availability of the appropriate profile, not how you will eventually print it (ABW, RGB, whatever).

I have no personal experience with Eric's profiles, but they addressed so many people's needs when the options were more straightforward, and knowing his expertise,  I must assume they were good. I have made ABW profiles for others to use as well, and the above workaround works fine, as well as softproofing.

Some 3rd party print applications like QTR Print Tool gives you back all those options without workarounds and are worth considering.
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FrankG
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« Reply #58 on: November 29, 2014, 04:01:39 PM »
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preconvert your file to that profile before printing, then continuing on through with printer color management and the appropriate print settings.

Thanks Tyler. 
I have an Epson 3880/inks, OSX 10.6.8, PS CS6.
Just to be clear on the above - are you saying instead of going directly to ABW settings/Printer Manages Colors, whilst still in PS to convert the file to a ABW profile, and then to print with Printer manages Colors/ABW?
If so, any special considerations in the printer dialog settings?
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TylerB
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« Reply #59 on: November 29, 2014, 04:41:55 PM »
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Thanks Tyler. 
I have an Epson 3880/inks, OSX 10.6.8, PS CS6.
Just to be clear on the above - are you saying instead of going directly to ABW settings/Printer Manages Colors, whilst still in PS to convert the file to a ABW profile, and then to print with Printer manages Colors/ABW?
If so, any special considerations in the printer dialog settings?

So I assume he made profiles for the 3880 before stopping? Yes, convert using PS tools, before invoking print commands. Be sure and double check his driver settings to use with the profile for printer settings.. things like 1440 vs 2880, media selection, and darkness settings. Any of that must be specific to the profile made, and any profile provider would have those instructions available. Of course he did all this work while more straightforward ABW/icc print workflow was still available, but assuming printer/paper match, it should all work.
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