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Question: Why do you own a digital M Leica?  (Voting closed: October 30, 2011, 07:03:58 AM)
Because I prefer shooting with a rangefinder. - 9 (45%)
Because I want to use Leica and other M lenses. - 11 (55%)
Total Voters: 20

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Author Topic: M Leica – Camera or Lenses?  (Read 91118 times)
darylgo
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« Reply #100 on: April 04, 2012, 11:21:14 PM »
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Better late than never.  The M9 is the perfect digital camera, I pick the aperture, focus and if I don't like the shutter speed I spin either the aperture or shoot manual shutter speed.  Simplicity.  Less is more.  The only cameras I enjoy as much is a Nikon F3 and Contax 645. 
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Rob C
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« Reply #101 on: April 15, 2012, 03:49:10 AM »
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Better late than never.  The M9 is the perfect digital camera, I pick the aperture, focus and if I don't like the shutter speed I spin either the aperture or shoot manual shutter speed.  Simplicity.  Less is more.  The only cameras I enjoy as much is a Nikon F3 and Contax 645. 


Still have one of those, but unfortunately it flourished on a diet of Kodachrome...

Rob C
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Christoph C. Feldhaim
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« Reply #102 on: April 15, 2012, 01:49:47 PM »
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Still have one of those, but unfortunately it flourished on a diet of Kodachrome...

Rob C

Rob - get some Tri-X! Seeing this book of Jean Loup Sief made pretty clear we don't need no stupid megapixels ...
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stevesanacore
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« Reply #103 on: April 15, 2012, 02:43:18 PM »
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A 36MP Leica M would be a fabulous gift for the photographic community - but how in the world could Leica get that past the board of directors when they have a $23K 36MP camera already? It's sad to see when companies intentionally cripple their new products so as not to compete with other poorly planned older products.

Well I'd be very eager to order a 24MP Leica M with a CMOS sensor and live view. Add a cheap built in digital viewfinder, like the Sony Nex7, and they can dump their complex focusing system and hopefully lower the price too.

The two biggest things holding me back from buying into the M system is the weight of the M9 body and the rangefinder optical system with no live view as an option.

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Rob C
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« Reply #104 on: April 16, 2012, 03:17:26 AM »
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Rob - get some Tri-X! Seeing this book of Jean Loup Sief made pretty clear we don't need no stupid megapixels ...



Yes, he's an inspiration. But then, I worked through much of the same period and already know all any practical photographer needs to know about 35mm films and what they can do; the problem today is that analogue stuff has become the new luxury. I'm retired, money no longer hangs for the plucking from the tree of life and the sweet fruits of my labours are dying, rotting from lack of interest as they lie in the bank. I hope they still lie in the bank.

I share Slobodan's predicament and understand too well the anxieties therefrom, to which I can add: will I outlive my bank statement? Will my eyes deteriorate until I can no longer drive? Will governments screw my kids? Those are the real worries, not friggin' megapixels dancing on the nose of an invisible fantasy at 100%!

As with so much, we gain some and lose a hell of a lot more.

I envy you that Mamiya 67 ll!

Rob C
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 03:30:44 AM by Rob C » Logged

Rob C
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« Reply #105 on: April 16, 2012, 03:28:33 AM »
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Well I'd be very eager to order a 24MP Leica M with a CMOS sensor and live view. Add a cheap built in digital viewfinder, like the Sony Nex7, and they can dump their complex focusing system and hopefully lower the price too.

The two biggest things holding me back from buying into the M system is the weight of the M9 body and the rangefinder optical system with no live view as an option.



Well, I can confidently say that the single thing holding me back is the price of the damned thing. It's sad to read people feeling turned off because a camera, designed to follow in the path of its very successful forebears is castigated for doing just that. A pox on new viewing systems; people made beautiful pictures with the cameras exactly as they were. It smells of standard excuses for less than great visions. If I had this, then I could do that, blah, blah, blah. IMO. Heysoos! the majority of the world's greates images was made long before digital (and its marketing games) was even a wet nightmare in Kodak's lap.

Rob C
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 03:32:16 AM by Rob C » Logged

KLaban
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« Reply #106 on: April 16, 2012, 07:01:48 AM »
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A pox on new viewing systems; people made beautiful pictures with the cameras exactly as they were. It smells of standard excuses for less than great visions. If I had this, then I could do that, blah, blah, blah.

Rob, I now realise my concerns about the M9 were mere excuses. I feel suitably castigated and downcast.
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Christoph C. Feldhaim
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« Reply #107 on: April 16, 2012, 07:10:57 AM »
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Yes, he's an inspiration. But then, I worked through much of the same period and already know all any practical photographer needs to know about 35mm films and what they can do; the problem today is that analogue stuff has become the new luxury. I'm retired, money no longer hangs for the plucking from the tree of life and the sweet fruits of my labours are dying, rotting from lack of interest as they lie in the bank. I hope they still lie in the bank.

I share Slobodan's predicament and understand too well the anxieties therefrom, to which I can add: will I outlive my bank statement? Will my eyes deteriorate until I can no longer drive? Will governments screw my kids? Those are the real worries, not friggin' megapixels dancing on the nose of an invisible fantasy at 100%!

As with so much, we gain some and lose a hell of a lot more.

I envy you that Mamiya 67 ll!

Rob C

Honestly - I'm considering doing some street photography with Tri-X (for the look of it) with the old Minolta SRT 101b I inherited from my late stepfather. Some might call it retro - I just wouldn''t care ...
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Rob C
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« Reply #108 on: April 16, 2012, 08:31:46 AM »
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Honestly - I'm considering doing some street photography with Tri-X (for the look of it) with the old Minolta SRT 101b I inherited from my late stepfather. Some might call it retro - I just wouldn''t care ...


Hey, retro is chic!

Rob C
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KLaban
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« Reply #109 on: April 16, 2012, 11:29:58 AM »
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Some might call it retro - I just wouldn''t care ...

...and why on earth should you?
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Rob C
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« Reply #110 on: April 16, 2012, 12:44:45 PM »
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Keith -

Now this is retro: shot on the 'phone whilst coveting Christoph's Mamiload of Velvia a couple of days ago.

In my own best Velvia simulation, and with Eats Shoots And Leaves in mind.

Rob C

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KLaban
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« Reply #111 on: April 16, 2012, 12:59:54 PM »
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Rob, the colour certainly looks to be in Velvia mode but the DR looks to be a liitle more forgiving.

It'll be interesting to hear how Christop got on with the 'Saturated One'.
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TMARK
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« Reply #112 on: April 16, 2012, 01:55:53 PM »
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The M9 is almost perfect, save the (over) price of the body and lenses.  I've had a raft of M cameras, the M6 being the best of the bunch.  What I eventually realized is that the Fuji X100 suits me just fine, and the extra features, which I never thought I'd use, are really welcome.  It has roughly 90% of the IQ of an M8, but with a (much) broader DR, and quality ISO up to, really, 3200 with a bit of work.  The in camera JPEGS are really very good, as is the color and auto WB.  Really amazing.  I've never used JPEGS straight from the camera, but the little Fuji makes that possible.  I use the Fuji just like I used my M8 and M9:  as B camera on editorial shoots and for street shooting, as well as shots of the kids etc. 

The problem with Leica, in my mind, is that the cameras and lenses are too expensive for their limited usability in either a professional or personal context.  They are ideal for street shooting and any situation where their small size and low key presence is needed, but other cameras can do this as well, for far less capital.  And in a JPEG digital world, the M9 files are overkill in most situations. 

The major technical issue, to me, are the fixed, inaccurate framelines.  I'm sure this was an issue with the film cameras, but with digital and instant review, the issue is immediatly brought to your attention, causing you to reshoot and reshoot and reshoot until what you saw through teh VF shows up on the screen.  I think I never noticed this with film because the lag time between pressing the buton and seeing the contacts made fuzzy the memory of what you were trying to shoot.  Otherwise, the VF of the M cameras is fine with me. 

I hope they keep making them, and I hope they don't fool around too much with the VF.  Maybe make the frame lines truly variable, and cut the cost of them to something that a professional would really use, not just a novelty or fetish item.
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KLaban
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« Reply #113 on: April 16, 2012, 04:03:27 PM »
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The major technical issue, to me, are the fixed, inaccurate framelines.  I'm sure this was an issue with the film cameras, but with digital and instant review, the issue is immediatly brought to your attention, causing you to reshoot and reshoot and reshoot until what you saw through teh VF shows up on the screen.

Precisely.

I live in hope that the M10 has the means to check critical framing and focus pre-capture but I won't be holding my breath.
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erickb
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« Reply #114 on: April 17, 2012, 01:16:01 AM »
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I live in hope that the M10 has the means to check critical framing and focus pre-capture but I won't be holding my breath.
if not I could at once sell all my Leica M gear , I don't like the M9 but I'd like to keep on using the lenses
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shadowblade
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« Reply #115 on: April 17, 2012, 07:14:56 PM »
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I hope the M10 has a CMOS-based sensor with live view, with at least 36MP, maybe even 54MP, like a scaled-up NEX-7 (some rumours say it will use a Sony sensor, so that's not out of the question).

The Leica lenses are spectacular, as are some of the other M-mount-compatible lenses (Zeiss Distagon 15mm, Voigtlander 12mm). But, when shooting UWAs, you are often very close to foreground subjects and parallax error becomes significant in the absence of through-the-lens composition and focusing.

If the M10 has a high-resolution sensor and live view, I'll be buying one as my 'daytime' kit for hiking/trekking/climbing (with the Tri-Elmar 16-18-21, Distagon 15 and Voigtlander 12mm, and maybe a telephoto), leaving my heavy gear with the porters, mules or camels for shooting in the 'golden hours' and at night around camp.

Also, I wouldn't mind a Leica 14mm lens or tilt-shift...
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erickb
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« Reply #116 on: April 17, 2012, 09:39:34 PM »
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I wouldn't mind a Leica 14mm lens or tilt-shift...
I need a TS lens too, if a Leica is M and R mount it will be possible  a 28mm shift Super Angulon
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shadowblade
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« Reply #117 on: April 17, 2012, 09:55:13 PM »
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I need a TS lens too, if a Leica is M and R mount it will be possible  a 28mm shift Super Angulon

A tilt-shift lens would only make sense if the M10 has live view. Without live view or another kind of TTL focusing and composition tool, you couldn't focus a tilt-shift lens.

I'd like to see 14mm, 24mm and 100mm versions.

I also wouldn't mind a version with a tiltable sensor (similar technology to the rotating sensors seen on the current Olympus models) to allow us to control the plane of focus with current lenses. With increasing megapixel counts and diffraction becoming an issue at wider and wider f-stops, this is something which all manufacturers should consider - with a dense enough sensor, diffraction may kick in at f/5.6, but, by tilting the sensor, f/5.6 could cover everything from close-up all the way to infinity.
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erickb
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« Reply #118 on: April 17, 2012, 09:59:39 PM »
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without liveview or evf or any of this kind I'll sell all, for me the M9 sucks


I hope the M10 ...., with at least 36MP, maybe even 54MP
18 mp are enough   and 36 mp  is a no way on 24x36  for 99% of M users   
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shadowblade
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« Reply #119 on: April 17, 2012, 10:16:37 PM »
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without liveview or evf or any of this kind I'll sell all, for me the M9 sucks

18 mp are enough   and 36 mp  is a no way on 24x36  for 99% of M users   

But 54MP doesn't hurt (particularly with the ultra-sharp Leica and Zeiss lenses which can take advantage of the resolution), and they can always implement a sRAW format for those who don't want huge files.
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