Apple 27" LED Cinema Display for main workstation?

[Mr. Rib]

(ok, I know this doesn't neccessarily belong to MF section, but I'd like to have the input from MFDB guys- I believe that's the group which pays attention to the colour consistency the most)

Hi,

I need some opinions on this monitor- how accurate is it after calibration? Do the LED backlit introduce color distortion (I know it has a very contrasty feeling to it, at least from what I can tell after 10 minutes spent in the ispot; I also heard that LED backlit is inconsistent in time)? I guess problems with callibrating a glossy display are a myth? The jeopardy of reflections is not a concern to me, the monitor would be used in an adequately lit workroom. Despite all the controversy, can it be used for pre-press (or should I say pre-print) work ?


Thanks!

[digitaldog]

Many Colorimeters will have issues with this backlight. And there’s nothing at all special about this or recent Apple displays in terms of being ideal for image processing. What instrument are you using?

[cng]

Many Colorimeters will have issues with this backlight. And there’s nothing at all special about this or recent Apple displays in terms of being ideal for image processing. What instrument are you using?

+1.  I've never been able to figure out how Apple displays obtained their high reputation among some users, other than the fact they look sleek.  I use all Apple hardware, but with a calibrated Eizo monitor.

Do this test:  Go into any Apple store or reseller and change the background color on the Apple monitors to a neutral solid color using the System Preferences utility > Desktop & Screensaver > Solid Colors.  The last time I did this all the monitors I looked at had inconsistent luminance and color.  Looked like a blotchiness / cloudiness across the entire panel with weird hue shifts thrown in.  Not sure how you'd correct this.  Note that ALL the Apple monitors regardless of size / model looked like this.

Depends how fussy you are and what you are willing to accept.  Personally, I would also avoid glossy monitors for color-critical work.

[Schewe]

+1.  I've never been able to figure out how Apple displays obtained their high reputation among some users, other than the fact they look sleek.

Just to be clear, the first post plastic Cinema Displays were excellent displays for the time...I use then for a while. But, after that first series, the subsequent series of Cinema displays dropped considerably in terms of quality. Seriously, the current Cinema displays ain't great anymore. Compared to others, I would say they are "crap".

[Steve Weldon]

Just to be clear, the first post plastic Cinema Displays were excellent displays for the time...I use then for a while. But, after that first series, the subsequent series of Cinema displays dropped considerably in terms of quality. Seriously, the current Cinema displays ain't great anymore. Compared to others, I would say they are "crap".

+1

[Mr. Rib]

Thanks for contributing.
I hear both great and terrible things about this display, all coming from experienced users (my colleague photogs, designers and dtp / pre-press guys). I hear that LED backlit is more uniform than how 30" ACD is lit and the other way around, I hear some good and bad things about the display being glossy (altough I think the fact that it's glossy can be ignored- in fact glossiness of the screen makes it a bit more accurate because the light is not distorted as on 'uneven' surface of a anti-glare finish). I get a negative feedback for the screen here and positive feedback from macworld from guys who have been working in publishing for 20-30 years.. To be honest, I'm confused and I don't know what to think about it.

[ctz]

Buy NEC.

[DeeJay]

Compared to others, I would say they are "crap".

Buy NEC.

I agree.

I am still using 2 NEC Spectraview 3090's and in 3 years of owning them and having work in print every week they have never once let me down and it looks on screen what its does in print.

I am yet to need to upgrade to the PA series which I hear are a bit better. The LCD3090 and 2690 Spectraviews can be found, comparably, at very reasonable prices now.

The Spectraview system is incredible. Plug in the meter, open the software, attach the meter, go make a coffee, come bad to a calibrated screen.

[rhsu]

Mr Rib,

Save your money and get 27" NEC PA series with the meter.  Although the ratio may be weird for photo-user compare to 30" but it is only one minus point - I think...

[Steve Weldon]

Just to be clear, the first post plastic Cinema Displays were excellent displays for the time...I use then for a while. But, after that first series, the subsequent series of Cinema displays dropped considerably in terms of quality. Seriously, the current Cinema displays ain't great anymore. Compared to others, I would say they are "crap".

+10

Don't discount this statement.  For games and general computer programs I'm sure the Cinema display is fine for most users.  But now you're going into a color managed workflow and a precise use.  In this regard "crap" is a conservative statement.  You're getting advice from several here who have literally written the book on color management.   If you think cruzing another forum to find other answers will serve you well, then by all means.. cruze.

And try to separate how people use these monitors.  Desktop publishing requires a lot of real estate and a 30 inch monitor provides a lot of real estate.  However, a color managed workflow requires very precise colors routed through the electronics in a very specific way.  Frankly, you're not going to understand this until you spend a lot more time reading, investigating, asking questions, and spending a lot of hands on.   Some of us here have done these things, and we're universally telling you to avoid the cinema displays in favor of something like the NEC Spectraviews.  Either the older LCD or the new PA series wills serve you very well.

It's your choice, but remember choosing the best monitor for your needs isn't about taking a poll.  It's about listening to the people performing the tasks you want to perform at the level you want to perform at.  OR putting in the time to book learn the entire process.

IF you process images and want a color managed workflow, the NEC's are very hard to beat.  And the Apple Cinema sucks big wind.  I can't make it more clear.

I wish you the best.

[Mr. Rib]

Thank you all for contributing. Well, I guess there's no choice but to go the Eizo / NEC route.. you've convinced me. By the way- can anyone tell me why I hear a lot from you about NEC but not that much about EIZO? I'm talking generally, a lot of times when it comes to colour management people suggest NEC over EIZO at LuLa.. Is it because of availability in USA? Or is there any substantial difference in Spectraview / Coloredge lineup?

[jduncan]

Thank you all for contributing. Well, I guess there's no choice but to go the Eizo / NEC route.. you've convinced me. By the way- can anyone tell me why I hear a lot from you about NEC but not that much about EIZO? I'm talking generally, a lot of times when it comes to colour management people suggest NEC over EIZO at LuLa.. Is it because of availability in USA? Or is there any substantial difference in Spectraview / Coloredge lineup?

You say, besides price?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/689880-REG/NEC_PA271W_BK_SV_MultiSync_PA271W_BK_SV_27_Widescreen.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/816468-REG/Eizo_CG275W_BK_ColorEdge_CG275W_27_Widescreen.html


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/758871-REG/NEC_PA301W_BK_SV_30_MultiSync_LCD_Monitor.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/706700-REG/Eizo_CG303W_BK_ColorEdge_CG303W_29_8_Widescreen.html

[Mr. Rib]

Yes, besides price - because I can get a new CG303W for $3100.

[design_freak]

Thank you all for contributing. Well, I guess there's no choice but to go the Eizo / NEC route.. you've convinced me. By the way- can anyone tell me why I hear a lot from you about NEC but not that much about EIZO? I'm talking generally, a lot of times when it comes to colour management people suggest NEC over EIZO at LuLa.. Is it because of availability in USA? Or is there any substantial difference in Spectraview / Coloredge lineup?

Because Nec is cheap 
Photographers hate to spend their money. Even if they bother with this trash. (Sync cables, fasteners, FW cables, monitors - cheap computers). As for the monitor, you really should give a lot more money. First, replace the camera twice, three times the computer, the monitor will remain on your desk. As for the NEC, Eizo once wrote firmware to Spectraview monitor . I do not know how it is now, but Eizo hardware is the best I've ever seen. The NEC has always had problems: it is the calibration matrix, matrices, matrix backlight. The Eizo's all very simple and most importantly works seamlessly.
Completely different quality. This is the Arca Swiss / Alpa among monitors. Once Barco was a determinant of quality in those days you could buy a Lacie monitors. NEC is just such a Lacie today.

 

[digitaldog]

Because Nec is cheap  

Less expensive, better bang for the buck. No question Eizo is a super high quality product. Its been a few years since I tested one (Hey Eizo, if you’re listening, I’m always open to more tests <g>). But my experience is that the large difference in price between their displays and NEC (I’m still comparing older non PA units) are not justified. So yes, NEC is cheaper and as yet, other than a logo, I can’t see the justification for the added money. But heck, if you have deep pockets and need a bigger tax write off, there is no question Eizo is a superb product line.

[design_freak]

When you count your lost time , frustration... it turns out that it is worthwhile to pay more.

[Steve Weldon]

Thank you all for contributing. Well, I guess there's no choice but to go the Eizo / NEC route.. you've convinced me. By the way- can anyone tell me why I hear a lot from you about NEC but not that much about EIZO? I'm talking generally, a lot of times when it comes to colour management people suggest NEC over EIZO at LuLa.. Is it because of availability in USA? Or is there any substantial difference in Spectraview / Coloredge lineup?

I'm not convinced the Eizo's are technically better than the new NEC PA series.. or for that matter the LCD series.  But what will really put things in perspective for you, is the Spectraview II software and puck.  These tools are designed and built around the NEC models and they'll make your color management very easy.  Be certain to order both of these items either as part of a package, or separately, whatever is the most cost effective.  The SVII software can be purchased directly from the NEC website I think for $80.. sometimes getting your hands on the SVII puck can be a bit elusive, but keep at it until you find one.   And if you want to open a bag of worms, start asking if there aren't better pucks than the SVII puck to use with the SVII software and NEC's.   The short answer is yes.  The longer answer is trying to figure out which one, as there's no shortage of opinions.. rather strong ones.   I can almost guarantee you, get the SVII software and puck and you'll be in heaven, no need to look for anything better..

[Mr. Rib]

Ok, I'm dropping my Apple LED Display plans.
I have some experience with Eizo, also in case of NEC I don't think they are that cheaper than Eizo, at least here in eastern Europe. Two Eizo models interest me the most- CG275W and CG303W. I'm wondering how the autocalibration feature of CG275W works- is it any good and can I rely solely on it or should I be getting a decent calibrator separately? CG275W seems to be a good alternative to CG303W, especially cost-wise. Any feedback on that particular monitor? As I understand, NEC alternative to CG275W would be a MultiSync PA271W w/Spectraview II ?

[Steve Weldon]

Shame the cost difference is less in the EU. At B&H the Eizo CG275W is $3300 and the NEC PA271W w/Spectraview II is $1649.

Does the duty/taxes eat up the difference if ordered through B&H?

A popular shipping forwarding service for those living in Thailand is www.shipito.com.  I wrote a short review about them here. Once the package is received at the shipito warehouse they'll follow your requests to remove receipts, tags, etc.. and then you fill out your own customs label on-line which they then professionally print and attach.  In over 100+ such shipments I've never had a shipment questioned.   I love their service, find them very fast and professional, and they've yet to make a single mistake.  I ship completed workstations to Thailand via this company often.

[Mr. Rib]

I simply got a great deal for CG303W, but normally CG275W is almost as much as I can get CG303W for- and in Europe it's not that CG's are cheaper- it's NECs which are more expensive Anyway, after browsing for a few hours you can find yourself a fair deal on Eizo / NEC monitor in Europe.

On more thing that bothers me- I own a 4.1 Mac (which I'm planning to hack and upgrade to 5.1) and an ATI Radeon 4870 which is capable of 10-bit output via mini displayport. From what I heard and read, 10-bit output on Mac OS X is still impossible due to drivers not up to the task (yes, Windows is ahead of Apple in this department as well, strange times we live in).
I just read an article at LuLa: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/accessories/10bit.shtml What's finally here? What is the author talking about? Unless the author changed system to Win on his Mac (with hacked drivers because at that time there were no drivers to support 10 bits) he wouldn't be able to see 10 bits... not only that- if one wants to use 10 bits in PS, you have to buy an I/O box device like Matrox MX02 since there is no support in Photoshop for real-time 10-bit colour. So.. what's up with 10 bits? Is there a way to get it on Mac / in Photoshop without costly I/O boxes and tricks?
If I'm not mistaken, the whole article at LuLa is a total misinformation / a joke or author didn't mention some crucial facts how he obtained 10-bit output. Of course he could omitt mentioning the I/O box (hey, it's only $1,5k after all;) ) but seeing how the author comments on a mouse jump issue and a cable adapter I think he would definitely mention it..plus what's the use of 10-bit if you can't use it in Photoshop? So.. did he just fell bewitched by '10 bits on paper' and what he actually was seeing was still 8 bit colour ?  I wonder