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Author Topic: Dead PhaseOne batteries...  (Read 1804 times)
amsp
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« on: November 02, 2011, 08:53:23 PM »
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So, I recently had both my PhaseOne batteries die on me within a two week period. No degradation in performance or any kind of warning, they just stopped working from one minute to another. At first I thought maybe I fried them by using them in the back and connecting the firewire cable at the same time. This wasn't a problem in the past but I'm now using a FW400/800 converter and thought maybe this had something to with it. However, PhaseOne support said there is no way to fry the batteries with the firewire cable, and even if there was it would kill the back first.

So, my question is has anyone else experienced this? Any suggestions what could be the cause? It seems highly unlikely they would both die completely within such a short time frame. In the meantime I've ordered two new ones, but I must say if this is to be expected from PhaseOne batteries I'm not sure it's worth paying the hefty premium compared to other third-party suppliers.

Cheers
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Paul2660
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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2011, 10:35:11 PM »
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I have never had one just totally die, but over a few years, they definitely don't hold anywhere as long a charge.

If you are in U.S. check out
http://http://www.captureintegration.com/store/phase-one-accessories/

About 1/2 way down, look for the Silver battery.  It's the same as Phase One in power and Millamp and $30.00 cheaper.
I have 4 of them now and the work actually just a tad better than the Phase One (Canon) branded batteries.  If you don't
mind the silver color.  

Paul Caldwell
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yaya
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« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2011, 02:54:49 AM »
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So, I recently had both my PhaseOne batteries die on me within a two week period. No degradation in performance or any kind of warning, they just stopped working from one minute to another. At first I thought maybe I fried them by using them in the back and connecting the firewire cable at the same time. This wasn't a problem in the past but I'm now using a FW400/800 converter and thought maybe this had something to with it. However, PhaseOne support said there is no way to fry the batteries with the firewire cable, and even if there was it would kill the back first.

So, my question is has anyone else experienced this? Any suggestions what could be the cause? It seems highly unlikely they would both die completely within such a short time frame. In the meantime I've ordered two new ones, but I must say if this is to be expected from PhaseOne batteries I'm not sure it's worth paying the hefty premium compared to other third-party suppliers.

Cheers

Might be your charger that has killed them, if this happens again I'd bin it and get another one
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amsp
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« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2011, 05:45:37 AM »
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@Paul2660
I'm afraid I live in the EU

@yaya
It's not the charger, I was using the original one when the first died and a Hahnel when the second one died.
Besides, they both died while in the camera, not while being charged.

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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2011, 11:47:11 AM »
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Likely it doesn't apply to you but as a general-information sort of thing. Things that kill (these kinds of) batteries faster than normal:
- Being left very empty for an extended period
- Being left in a very hot environment (e.g. dash of a car in summer sun)
- Being left very empty in a very hot environment

Bad electronics can also do it, and occasionally you just get a bad batch of batteries made (manufacturing defect).

I agree with Phase's support team that it seems strange that the back could have electronics screwed up enough to mess-up two batteries but not bad enough to create any issues in the back itself. However, I've learned to simply say "I've never seen it before" rather than "it's impossible" :-).

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Stefan.Steib
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« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2011, 03:52:21 PM »
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I suspect it´s the charger.
I did have now about 4 customers who all had the same thing happening - the Hähnel charger shows the batteries to be charged fully.
But they are not ! The loading electronics gets weaker and weaker with no real signs - only effect is that your worktime gets shorter and shorter.
So if you put load on the battery it can collaps if the voltage overall has become too weak/low.

This is why I researched this and have found a professional solution (made by an american company) for this with a four slot, pro grade charger which is normally used for high capacity video
batteries, we have arranged to make a special version with 3 low capacity (Phase size batteries 7,2 volts) and one high capacity (Quickcharge as we can use these on our HCam)
slots. The slots are electronically controlled, do uncharge, recharge, recover cycles on the batteries, do a permanent analysis of the load amount and the capacity available.
With this you can be sure to have sufficient power when you go on the job. This is not cheap we call 595,-€ for this + taxes and shipment.

I have always wondered why anybody buys a 20-30k back and uses a toy charger.

Greetings from Munich

Stefan
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amsp
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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2011, 08:27:36 PM »
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Like I said, the first battery died when I didn't even own the Hahnel yet, so it's not the charger.

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Stefan.Steib
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2011, 03:41:50 AM »
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What other charger did you use ? Are you sure the batteries were charged correctly ? As long as you do not have definite informations about the real power of your batteries it is just guesswork.
And even new ones do differ in their potential. Only a "battery training" can uncover their full capacity.
Why do you think Video professionals buy Anton Bauer Batteries for 700-1000 € (a piece!) and Chargers for 2500 € ? Because they want to make sure they do not run out of power during a shoot !
This is a lot of money and I have tried to find a solution that works with the existing systems and I think I found it with our charger.
You could of course buy a good multimeter and put consumption on all your existing batteries one  after the other and measure this to get the same information.
But I think this is highly uncomfortable and then you still have to charge them reliable.........

Greetings from Munich
Stefan
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Stefan.Steib
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« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2011, 02:28:08 AM »
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Found a link explaining the facts about battery discharge current:

http://batteryuniversity.com/print-partone-16.htm

and here something that shows the complexity about charging modern batteries

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a..._ion_batteries


Greetings from Munich
Stefan
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Bernhard
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« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2011, 06:48:48 AM »
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this has happened over 3 times over the last 5 years, all orginal batteries with orginal charger only

My dealer just told me it happened,

one battery died because I didn't charge it for few days, the others i have no idea

so you are not alone;)

best

Bernhard Kristinn
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amsp
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« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2011, 08:19:52 AM »
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this has happened over 3 times over the last 5 years, all orginal batteries with orginal charger only

My dealer just told me it happened,

one battery died because I didn't charge it for few days, the others i have no idea

so you are not alone;)

best

Bernhard Kristinn

That's good/bad to hear. I just got the bill for my new batteries and like last time I almost fainted,
Phase One charges an obscene premium for "their" batteries, that's for sure. When they actually
arrive (should be tomorrow) I will try connecting the firewire cable and just make sure once and
for all that this is not the reason. But I suspect it's just bad luck coupled with bad manufacturing.
Funny thing is that the batteries I got with the back when I bought it in 2005 are still alive
and kicking, although barely holding the charge anymore.

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amsp
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« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2011, 08:55:57 AM »
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Well, I can confirm that it is NOT the firewire cable that killed them. I guess I'm just really unlucky.
Let's hope the new ones last a little longer this time, for 170 euro they'd better  Roll Eyes
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Stefan.Steib
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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2011, 09:52:47 AM »
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Just to get some future perspective

http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2011/11/batteries-energy-kung.html

Greetings from Munich
Stefan
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