Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Scarlet  (Read 47713 times)
Morgan_Moore
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2215


WWW
« Reply #180 on: February 07, 2012, 05:22:15 PM »
ReplyReply

All broadcast TVs are working here with Avid, included national tv

Avid used to be the Tape based editing ??

My local beeb has just chucked that out and gone to FCP7 .. about three days before they launched X  ! !

S
Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
fredjeang
Guest
« Reply #181 on: February 07, 2012, 05:36:50 PM »
ReplyReply

Avid runs all the national broadcast tv for ex and the major cine houses, Grass Valley completly runs Eurosport wich isn't a little client.

for ex: http://www.avid.com/LA/about-avid/customer-stories/RTVE

Recently Grass Valley gained major market-clients worldwide and it seems that they're growing.

All tv productions included movies where tv is partner is edited within Avid systems. And without counting on the incredible number of first class movies all over the world edited in Avid.

I'm not at all against Apple (although it is true I don't like the FCP software), just that this is a vast world.

Remember also that Edius is the Grass Valley editor. It's not a generalist like Sony, Apple or Adobe. It's an editor made by and for professional of motion, just that it's not Apple based so you don't really see it everywhere. You ingest whatever inside it would cut it real time, up to 4k. The editing codecs are awesome. http://www.grassvalley.com/products/edius_6/features

« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 06:02:09 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Bern Caughey
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 179



WWW
« Reply #182 on: February 07, 2012, 06:31:37 PM »
ReplyReply

Fred,

FYI the same production company just added an Avid station for one of their shows, & will likely add others as the shooting schedule picks up.

And on another note, I wouldn't doubt that Avid, & Premiere, have as many legal licenses as FCP. Seems most just stole Apple's.

Perhaps Apple didn't/doesn't mind, as every editor knows FCP, & needs a workstation, but most would need time to learn Avid, or...

Best,
B
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 08:09:51 PM by Bern Caughey » Logged
bcooter
Guest
« Reply #183 on: February 07, 2012, 07:54:51 PM »
ReplyReply

Avid runs all the national broadcast tv for ex and the major cine houses, Grass Valley completly runs Eurosport wich isn't a little client.
snip



Fred,

I have no dog in this hunt and I am just as confused with Apple's change to fcpX as anyone

I do know business and I know that Apple won't abandon the communications industry, it's just too important for them to keep up the buzz.

I also know that if they want, they can tear up fdpx and start again in a week and not break a sweat.

IMO

BC
Logged
ftbt
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


« Reply #184 on: February 07, 2012, 09:55:10 PM »
ReplyReply

... I'm not selling RED, heck I hope everyone uses the Canon, it makes it better for me,  ...

Me, too! First off, congrats. on your Scarlet. I am waiting for my camera and side handle. All the other bits n' pieces have materialized.

Secondly, no camera, or camera system, is perfect. There will always be competing factors, pluses and minuses, and cost-benefit analyses that are run. What works for someone or one type of production, may not work for another or for a different production use. For instance, I would think twice about using an Epic or a Scarlet for ENG work. At the end of the day, it is a matter of using whatever tool that will help you to best tell your story, convey your message, sell the product, or whatever. When all is said and done, there is no perfect camera. Red included.

However, the encouraging thing about RED is that they appear to listen to their users and I think they are honestly trying to provide cinematic value for money. Yes, it can get expensive when you add-up the storage and start thinking about things like Red Rocket Cards. But, how many Panasonic, Sony, JVC, and Canon cameras have been retrofitted by the factory when technology advances or a new sensor is available? Not many. Those cameras quickly become obsolete and we are "encouraged" to buy the newest replacement model. RED, on the other hand, seems willing to keep its camera products current by offering technology upgrades, e.g. the MX sensor and the soon-to-be-released Dragon sensor. The same is true of their software. Graeme Nattress, (RED's color science guru ... who also hangs out here), has come up with REDcolor3 and REDgamma3 that will be incorporated into new camera firmware for all cameras and into REDCINE-X Pro. Supposedly it will make a major improvement in the camera monitoring path for color space and gamma, even with old footage. The cost: Free. Jarred Land, RED's President, has recently hinted that RED will offer an outboard module, (presumably for Pro Res and/or DNxHD), which would allow Epics and Scarlets to  record to those types of formats. That would allow them to go head-to-head with Arri Alexas for producers who want or need those HD formats for quick editing turn-arounds or their particular production pipelines, while at the same time still maintaining a RAW file work-flow.

So ... use whatever tool that works for you, and/or makes economic sense, and/or makes you money.

Logged
bcooter
Guest
« Reply #185 on: February 08, 2012, 01:53:48 AM »
ReplyReply

Red's a funny company.

When they first came out with no dealers, working direct, I thought good, finally we get direct support from the maker.

Then I went through RED's process with is something like the moose clubs secret handshake system.

Now I firmly believe that for RED to really prosper, they need to sell through standard dealers.

Nothing gives you confidence like having that dealer buffer.  I know with Samy's where I buy 99.9% of our equipment, I can call Karen and get direct, personal service with the straight information.

With RED, I always feel like I forgot to say the magic word to open the door.

With the Canon 300 we were first in line to buy one and held our place until last week.  I like the idea of a Canon, love the idea of high iso, but really wanted more half video cam, half still cam.

I could have lived with a prorezz shooting camera if they had added good autofocus and interchangeable mounts.  I could have lived with plastic buttons and 2k if they had given me very high frame rates or something I just couldn't get from any other camera, but they didn't, so I passed.

RED does seem to have a way to get 90% there of hitting the market and the Scarlet shows that RED will announce, then adapt and deliver what the market wants.

I just wish they would deliver faster and forget about the cult experience and the moving waiting list.

I also wish they'd really come out with a true dsmc stills and motion camera.  I'd love a 24x36 frame and a little more sharpness of the file.  Then we're 90% there to the one camera style format.

Regardless, I really dig the scarlet and can't wait to shoot it in a pressured situation.

IMO

BC



Me, too! First off, congrats. on your Scarlet. I am waiting for my camera and side handle. All the other bits n' pieces have materialized.

Secondly, no camera, or camera system, is perfect. There will always be competing factors, pluses and minuses, and cost-benefit analyses that are run. What works for someone or one type of production, may not work for another or for a different production use. For instance, I would think twice about using an Epic or a Scarlet for ENG work. At the end of the day, it is a matter of using whatever tool that will help you to best tell your story, convey your message, sell the product, or whatever. When all is said and done, there is no perfect camera. Red included.

However, the encouraging thing about RED is that they appear to listen to their users and I think they are honestly trying to provide cinematic value for money. Yes, it can get expensive when you add-up the storage and start thinking about things like Red Rocket Cards. But, how many Panasonic, Sony, JVC, and Canon cameras have been retrofitted by the factory when technology advances or a new sensor is available? Not many. Those cameras quickly become obsolete and we are "encouraged" to buy the newest replacement model. RED, on the other hand, seems willing to keep its camera products current by offering technology upgrades, e.g. the MX sensor and the soon-to-be-released Dragon sensor. The same is true of their software. Graeme Nattress, (RED's color science guru ... who also hangs out here), has come up with REDcolor3 and REDgamma3 that will be incorporated into new camera firmware for all cameras and into REDCINE-X Pro. Supposedly it will make a major improvement in the camera monitoring path for color space and gamma, even with old footage. The cost: Free. Jarred Land, RED's President, has recently hinted that RED will offer an outboard module, (presumably for Pro Res and/or DNxHD), which would allow Epics and Scarlets to  record to those types of formats. That would allow them to go head-to-head with Arri Alexas for producers who want or need those HD formats for quick editing turn-arounds or their particular production pipelines, while at the same time still maintaining a RAW file work-flow.

So ... use whatever tool that works for you, and/or makes economic sense, and/or makes you money.


« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 01:55:21 AM by bcooter » Logged
fredjeang
Guest
« Reply #186 on: February 08, 2012, 03:20:55 AM »
ReplyReply

About Apple, yes, I really think that they have the power and the brains to change the orthodox game rule. It's the only company I can think of that seems capable to bring another craft way and simplify the post production stage, as they already did that many times in the past. I think that both James and Ben are right on the money on that.
Are they on their way to do it with FCPX ? It could indeed be the case, time will tell.

If Apple really managed to simplify the all story within reliability and "pro-compliant", and the competition is sleeping; they could indeed dominate completly the editing world and dictate their rules. I would personaly applaude if we can work faster, easier, without compromizing the reliability (including file management).

Don't get me wrong on Apple. They are great, inovative and their computers could stand as an art sculpture in a museum.
There are many things to love from this company, others, I really think they sometimes can be as bad as the oscur days of Microsoft's politics.
I see that specialy in motion and the things that really pisses me of are those:

- the QT wrapper is problematic.
- Prores, being a "standart" is not open to other systems and require you own a license to write.
- FCPX is not multiplatform but exclusive.
- FCP line despite the name is not a professional product, never has been and has many well known issues for the people who work with big volume, requiere speed and absolute reliability. It's been successfull only because of the arrogance of Avid, their insane prices and lack of intuitiveness. So for many people years ago FCP has been a better choice with the acceptance of compromises, specially when budget was limited.
Now there is all a generation trained in FCP, that could be operative faster and logically are used to this workflow and efficient with it.

The problem is perceptual,  when you hear people saying: the "X" workflow is slow and complicated. I'd always think first, in what system are they editing?  

It's almost impossible to critize because immediatly there is this cult thing (that we can also see in Red cameras owners-politics as James pointed, or any other brand with strong personality), so for many people, Apple would be unable to produce something bad, because generally they don't. They actually do from time to time.

But I must admit that it's quite amazing. PCs don't have this cult factor, so when something regular is released on PC, everybody says it's crap. But when something regular is released on Mac, most people say "they might know what they do", "they are visionary so they see something I don't"...each of their products could be regarded as a potential rule-breaker.
  
Amazing.

Now, are we in a normal world? of course not.

But if Apple brings on the pipeline a new generation editor we most want-need without major issues, tomorrow I'm back on the apple store for sure. They just opened a new one close to home.



Now, what I'd really like, is something that doesn't look like an editor. FCPX is still an editor in the traditional sense. More intuitive, maybe faster etc...but still is the same. RCX no. RCX looks like we're in C1. It lacks many things to be truly usable as an editor, but I don't see the path too complicated-long.

That design would be personaly for me the big revolution I'd like to see.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 04:13:45 AM by fredjeang » Logged
fredjeang
Guest
« Reply #187 on: February 08, 2012, 04:49:33 AM »
ReplyReply

and also, my concern is this and has to do with the previous debate here:

- The still workflow is a stable one and well known. At any levels, if I want to master the post-prod stage, all I have to do is master Photoshop and the raw devs.
I know where to invest the tandem time and money.
C1, Lightroom, Phocus, Raw therapee etc...are just variations of the same design. Once you're trained on one it doesn't cost anything to be operative very fast with whatever.
The procedures are similar and very established for tether, file management etc...

- On the contrary, the motion workflow is a complete mess and very uncertain.
First, about this prores, would we conceive that in still, ouput a Tiff file would mean that we'd have to own a Mac only, or a PC only ? We would get crazy about that, but it is admitted in motion.
Prores can not be compared to a R3D, that will differs like any raw format except DNG. It has to be compared to a tiff format.

Then, I'm a newcomer in motion post prod. What to learn? What's the best for my business? Ok, so in my case I've learned Avid and Edius as a back-up editor. Fine. But I don't feel really confident seeing the moves of this industry.
Will this be stable in the middle term? Maybe I did a good choice, maybe not. If Apple brings a revolutionary editor that becomes a standart and enhance-simplify the workflow, and the competition sleeps, I would have done the wrong choice.
And it means: a complete re-learn of a new workflow. And that isn't like relearn a software like C1...the implications are serious.

To be good at something, we have to use it regularly for some time. In motion, I do have the sensation that it's way more unstable than stills. It looks like this industry is in complete re-formating and nobody really knows what tomorrow will be.

It's not hard to imagine that Raw video will be the norm soon or later and probably 4K will soon be a standart. Then, not even FCPX suits that but more variations of RCX in more powerfull. More re-learn.

I'm confused honestly and got this uncertain feeling that all what I'm learning today is pointless because huge changes are happening and we'll have to re-learn from scratch.


Maybe, my mistake is to try to find a "secure" solution, hassle-free in the middle term because it seems that it's not possible.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 04:59:15 AM by fredjeang » Logged
Bern Caughey
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 179



WWW
« Reply #188 on: February 08, 2012, 12:41:09 PM »
ReplyReply

Those cameras quickly become obsolete and we are "encouraged" to buy the newest replacement model. RED, on the other hand, seems willing to keep its camera products current by offering technology upgrades, e.g. the MX sensor and the soon-to-be-released Dragon sensor.

Will the R1 cameras be upgradable to the Dragon sensor, or was the MX the end of the line?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 12:44:07 PM by Bern Caughey » Logged
bcooter
Guest
« Reply #189 on: February 08, 2012, 01:10:03 PM »
ReplyReply

Will the R1 cameras be upgradable to the Dragon sensor, or was the MX the end of the line?

Who knows? . . . though I doubt they'll put the dragon sensor in a Red One.

Red has said (and they tell you very little) that the Red One will continue as it is still viewed as a big production camera and built a strong following, especially outside of the U.S.

I know we'll keep our Red One's because we've had great reliability and though this shouldn't matter, it's the only camera I've ever used where client's take cell phone snaps of.

In the very quick tests we've done with the Scarlet vs. the RED One, the scarlet goes to 2000 iso very smooth where the RED One seems to show noise at anything above 1000.

Some people love the RED One noise, some don't, I personally like it as I think the Scarlet looks too smooth, but this is very early in the process.  Since the scarlet goes to 2000 easy I'm not sure why they will have a dragon sensor, but I'll take what I can get.

I usually don't sell cameras, but might sell one of our Ones if the Scarlet is reliable.  Time will tell.

IMO

BC



Logged
Bern Caughey
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 179



WWW
« Reply #190 on: February 08, 2012, 01:39:48 PM »
ReplyReply

I usually don't sell cameras, but might sell one of our Ones if the Scarlet is reliable.  Time will tell.

Interesting. Like you the MX footage never left me wanting.

Is this inspired by easier matching, higher ISO, simplified support in the field, superior ergonomics, or another reason(s)?

« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 01:44:31 PM by Bern Caughey » Logged
ftbt
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


« Reply #191 on: February 08, 2012, 01:42:31 PM »
ReplyReply

Will the R1 cameras be upgradable to the Dragon sensor, or was the MX the end of the line?

The Gospel according to St. Jim:

""Obsolescence Obsolete... we said it. We believe it. We are delivering it. The RED ONE was advertised as such. But we realized that it could not live up to the ongoing advancements we had envisioned, even though we offered the MX sensor upgrade which is well beyond what any company had ever done for their customers. So we developed EPIC. And we gave our RED ONE customers a way to upgrade to EPIC without any pain. Stage 2 and Stage 3 are our solutions to Obsolescence Obsolete. Choose one if you are a RED ONE owner. They are your choices. Don't think past these choices... anything beyond these are not fair to us." - Jim Jannard on REDUSER @ 03-22-2011, 02:23 AM

But, like most things with RED, everything is subject to change. He also stated recently (in response to the rapid price drop of used RED 1's) that those who sold would be sorry later ... whatever that means?
Logged
fredjeang
Guest
« Reply #192 on: February 08, 2012, 02:11:41 PM »
ReplyReply

hey,

Jim is a master in communication....
Logged
fredjeang
Guest
« Reply #193 on: February 09, 2012, 01:47:55 AM »
ReplyReply

I'm not on the same level as James but I understand those reasons,

it's mainly for the same that I'd choose the Scarlet format.

I find that many times a too steady footage, "perfect" movements, is not necessarlly what I'm looking for.
The ideal would be steady enough but vital, organic, dynamic.

The thing is that this format allows also a perfect steady-sliding etc...if required, but the other way with heavier
cameras  is much more difficult. So this is a more versatile solution on set really.

The size of a medium format camera is just about ideal imo.

We can decide to work fast... or not, super steady or not. But we can decide, that's why I will give always an advantage to the most lighter gear possible. It gives more freedom and implication in the creative process IMO and don't have to compromised the quality or reliability with devices like the GH2 or any CaNikon as B or C cameras. It all works within the same standart, wich is also a time saver.

Having to operate different cameras from different brands with different codecs and different output qualities, complicates everything drastically.

Also, the way they built the accessories is really spot-on. One thing I really find important is to have the accessories connected the closest possible of the body so it becomes a bloc you can manouver and nothing is sort of "unstable" in action.

With the third-party cages it's always a compromised mecano because they are not made for a specific type of cameras except a few models that are insanely priced.
It's obvious that the people who designed the Red system are cineasts for cineasts and they thought integrated system.

And one thing I particularly like is that they have all, or almost all, the accessories needed to make the circus works properlly on sale in their website. I hate third-partied. Really do and my patience with that is close to the absolute zero. Like with softwares, you buy this or that software and then you have to chase for plug-ins etc...this really puts me on nerves. I can't conceive any equipment that isn't a complete system thought to work perfectly and helps the buyer, instead of complicating everything like we often see. from now on, if I don't have to revenues to access such kind of equipment, I won't buy and wait because in the end a bad purchase today is way worse than a good purchase tomorrow.

My only concern, and haven't found so far a definitive answer, are the mattebox. I don't want to use the screw filters, but I'd like a lighter solution than the traditional mattebox.
I wanted to mount a Bronica compendium but it doesn't fit on the standart 15mm rails. I ignore if there is an alternative design than allows 100x100 filetrs but within a more reduced structure. (the Bron isn't 100x100 but it was ideal)








 
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 04:43:13 AM by fredjeang » Logged
ftbt
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


« Reply #194 on: February 09, 2012, 10:35:01 AM »
ReplyReply

... My only concern, and haven't found so far a definitive answer, are the mattebox. I don't want to use the screw filters, but I'd like a lighter solution than the traditional mattebox.

Matte boxes can be insanely expensive (for what you appear to get). I just bought a near new Vocas 325 on e-bay for $495.00. It is extremely light, appears to be well-made, and can be used as a clip-on and with rods. To give you an idea: While I am waiting for my Scarlet, I attached it just for fun to a CY Zeiss 21/2.8 Distagon that was mounted to my 5DII. No vignetting whatsoever and it was light enough to use handheld all day. Another popular choice seems to be the new O'Box from O'Connor.
Logged
fredjeang
Guest
« Reply #195 on: February 09, 2012, 11:06:37 AM »
ReplyReply

Thanks ftbt.

Also I have problems to find a donut ring that has a flexible hood (see pic) instead of those zillion donuts diameters. (the less gadgetery I have, the better I feel)

If somebody has a link please post.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 11:08:36 AM by fredjeang » Logged
Morgan_Moore
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2215


WWW
« Reply #196 on: February 09, 2012, 11:35:06 AM »
ReplyReply

Fred - what this has to do with Scarlet Im not sure but Ill tell you my matte box journey

For some reason I have avoided a traditional matte box - I can't stand the idea of fiddling with those nuns knickers

I got got step up rings to make all my lenses 72mm front thread

I then bought various cheap fixed NDs (the plan to have enough to leave on each lens)

I have now found that too slow and went and bought 2 vary nDs from Tiffen (mainly like for the vid you saw) I keep lenses down to two - 18mm and 35-70

So I can leave on VND on each

I have the bronica box (and made an arm for my rails for it) but you are going to get reflection issues from the back if you have a lens that grows at all and put the filter on the box

My idea for the box was to use the filters on the lens and the box purely for shading -it very nearly works and allow space for my 'kit' lens to zoom unlike a box with a filter in

It is a challenge with my 18mm to get it not to vignette (with the matte in place), probably if I grind a little more of the inside away I can make it possible

I have abandoned that for the moment and am getting good results with the VND on the lenses and a french flag attached to a magic arm to keep light off the lens

S

« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 11:37:51 AM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
Bern Caughey
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 179



WWW
« Reply #197 on: February 09, 2012, 11:44:43 AM »
ReplyReply

Fred,

I use a Lee compendium for resin grads, but as I understand it the REDs need IR filtration, or possibly a Hot Mirror, when NDs are used. The best of these are combo filters that have ND plus IR, or HotMirror, engineered into one unit.

I've been holding off on upgrading my matte box as my cam has built-in NDs, but last I looked the wide-angle Vocas', & Genus', seemed the most versatile lightweight options.

Best,
Bern
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 02:01:57 PM by Bern Caughey » Logged
ftbt
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


« Reply #198 on: February 09, 2012, 01:52:07 PM »
ReplyReply

Thanks ftbt.Also I have problems to find a donut ring that has a flexible hood (see pic) instead of those zillion donuts diameters. (the less gadgetery I have, the better I feel) If somebody has a link please post.

The picture you have posted appears to be a Zacuto Universal Donut. The Donut is just the stretchy bit. You then need a 105mm Petroff Adapter Donut ring and the whole thing is assembled with velcro. See: http://store.zacuto.com/zwing-away-adapter.html

Another (and possibly better) solution is the Genus Nun's Knickers: See: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/660866-REG/Genus_GL_GARD_NK_GARD_NK_Universal_Donut_Nun_s.html
Logged
fredjeang
Guest
« Reply #199 on: February 09, 2012, 02:38:00 PM »
ReplyReply

Thanks to you all guys, that was very informative.

Logged
Pages: « 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad