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Author Topic: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1  (Read 18710 times)
BernardLanguillier
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« on: November 09, 2011, 03:00:56 AM »
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He seems to like it...

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-11666-11988

My findings are a good match for his.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 03:46:22 AM by BernardLanguillier » Logged

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Gary Brown
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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2011, 09:36:18 AM »
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Kirk Tuck also has several posts about his opinions and use of the V1. In chronological order (the first three being the main reviews, with additional comments in the other two):

Nikon 1. Counterintuitive. Crazy. And a whole lot of fun.

Nikon V1 part two. Wet performance.

Just a quick post with a few more Nikon V1 observations.

Sunday a day off? Naw. It's a day to pack and organize.

What a fascinating three days! High level conference imaging.
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AFairley
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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2011, 11:59:36 AM »
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Yes, it seems like the people who actually use it like it.
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OldRoy
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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2011, 12:28:11 PM »
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He seems to like it...

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-11666-11988

My findings are a good match for his.

Cheers,
Bernard

Including the poor Capture NX2 conversions?
This surprised me although he gives no indication what values he used. One assumes that he tried to optimise them.
Roy
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2011, 02:24:30 PM »
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Lightroom 3.6 has been supporting the J1/V1 since yesterday. For those who do not like NX2 conversions, this is a good workaround. I was impressed by the amount of detail I could extract from the .nef with a bit of sharpening paramaters tweaking in LR.

The real killer is going to be DxO though, but I guess we'll have to wait a bit for that. The philosophy of DxO is a perfect match:
- One click to capture the image a la Cartier Bresson (camera set to A mode at f2.8 on the 10mm f2.8, AutoIso set to 3200 max, AF set to closed subject priority), zero physical noise, zero UI distraction... the ultimate street camera,
- One click raw conversion in DxO that gets things incredibly close to what you would get by tweaking in LR or C1 Pro.

We live in a wonderful era!

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 06:47:47 PM by BernardLanguillier » Logged

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ixania2
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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2011, 05:24:11 AM »
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Yes, it seems like the people who actually use it like it.

i bought one and sold it after 2 days. IQ not better than several 4/3s  canon g10 et al., much worse than fuji x100. deep menues burying everything.
ok, 5fps or so, so what. buy a machine gun or a video cam.
targeted at snappers who want full-auto. much too expensive for what it delivers.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2011, 04:10:57 PM »
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i bought one and sold it after 2 days. IQ not better than several 4/3s  canon g10 et al., much worse than fuji x100. deep menues burying everything.
ok, 5fps or so, so what. buy a machine gun or a video cam.
targeted at snappers who want full-auto. much too expensive for what it delivers.

Did you like the AF?

As far as image quality goes, are you saying that 4/3 and G10 deliver the same level of image quality? If that is your assessement, then I would argue that image quality doesn't matter to you in the first place. Smiley

Also, do you own a 4/3 camera and G10? Then I am not sure why you even considered the J1.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 04:46:17 PM by BernardLanguillier » Logged

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ixania2
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2011, 05:56:57 PM »
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Did you like the AF?

As far as image quality goes, are you saying that 4/3 and G10 deliver the same level of image quality? If that is your assessement, then I would argue that image quality doesn't matter to you in the first place. Smiley

Also, do you own a 4/3 camera and G10? Then I am not sure why you even considered the J1.

Cheers,
Bernard


The af is good, although i can perfectly shoot street and hcb with my fuji x 100 as well. I dont need and dont want a machine gun.
Iq is nearly the same on the better and newer small formats. You wont use it for high art, and for those small snaps they are good enough.
I had no j1 but an v1.  Why? I buy this small stuff like desperate housewives buy stilettos. Its fun.
When talking about hcb - he had more out of focus snaps with burned highs than would be acceptable for most internet cops today. Who cares?
Catch the decisive moments if arising in never-seen compositions. And relax.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2011, 06:27:01 PM »
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When talking about hcb - he had more out of focus snaps with burned highs than would be acceptable for most internet cops today.

I wonder what camera he would be using in 2011.

I respect your camera buy-return hobby! :-)

Cheers,
Bernard
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2011, 10:46:37 PM »
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Just for fun:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/744|0/%28brand%29/Nikon/%28appareil2%29/516|0/%28brand2%29/Canon

The gap between the Canon 1Ds, the camera once said to have dethroned MF film, the reference for fashion and fine art digital print for years, and a Nikon J1 is...fairly small up to ISO400.

I guess that must be the reason why I feel it is a very decent pocket camera.  Grin

Cheers,
Bernard
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2011, 09:50:32 PM »
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The French magazine Reponses photo just had a shoot out of the main mirrorless cameras (Pana, Olympus, Sony and Nikon).

Their main conclusion is that there is very little difference between them in terms of overall image quality, the Nikon V1 gets the highest mark of all by a very small margin. It is said to easily match competition from 4:3 cameras.

It does get the best mark in terms of reactivity though, ahead of DSLRs like the Nikon D7000, Canon 60D for example. No camera, including the D3s and 1DMkIV, gets a better mark in this area.

Cheers,
Bernard
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OldRoy
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« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2011, 05:53:39 AM »
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Unless I'm even more confused than I think I am, the methodology behind the samples presented in this otherwise lucid review helps obscure the performance of these cameras magnificently.
Not least the fact that everything's been through Noise Ninja. They still look horribly noisy to me though.

Roy
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uaiomex
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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2011, 04:28:49 PM »
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Well, well, well. If this accurate, where will the next generation of FF sensors be?  Sensor performance is correlated if developed around the same period of time. FF is the holy grail (I've said that before, sorry). Bigger sensors will turn out to be an overkill. Perhaps they already are. This means more pressure for DMF manufacturers to lower the ridiculous prices.
Eduardo

Just for fun:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/744|0/%28brand%29/Nikon/%28appareil2%29/516|0/%28brand2%29/Canon

The gap between the Canon 1Ds, the camera once said to have dethroned MF film, the reference for fashion and fine art digital print for years, and a Nikon J1 is...fairly small up to ISO400.

I guess that must be the reason why I feel it is a very decent pocket camera.  Grin

Cheers,
Bernard

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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2011, 11:25:42 PM »
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Unless I'm even more confused than I think I am, the methodology behind the samples presented in this otherwise lucid review helps obscure the performance of these cameras magnificently.
Not least the fact that everything's been through Noise Ninja. They still look horribly noisy to me though.

I didn't see many details about the measurement process used nor detailed sample images, but perhaps I missed them.

For what is worth, DxO Mark says basically the same thing:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/744|0/%28brand%29/Nikon/%28appareil2%29/724|0/%28brand2%29/Olympus/%28appareil3%29/701|0/%28brand3%29/Panasonic

They are close, with Nikon concentrating more on DR and color quality while the 4:3 sensor have an advantage at higher ISOs.

But anyway, I did a few more hours of casual shooting with the J1 yesterday and just love it. As I mentioned before, the perfect super iPhone experience. Point, click... and 0.3 sec later you have nearly every single time a perfectly exposed and sharp raw file in the box.

It provides a wonderful experience that enables me to concentrate on framing and timing, which I personally think street photography is all about.

Cheers,
Bernard
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Vivec
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« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2011, 01:49:11 PM »
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For what is worth, DxO Mark says basically the same thing:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/744|0/%28brand%29/Nikon/%28appareil2%29/724|0/%28brand2%29/Olympus/%28appareil3%29/701|0/%28brand3%29/Panasonic

They are close, with Nikon concentrating more on DR and color quality while the 4:3 sensor have an advantage at higher ISOs.

Hi Bernard,
I don't post much but I always enjoy reading your posts and influenced by you, even started doing some stitching recently :-)

However, I think you are a bit overly enthusiastic about the Nikon 1. Sure it seems  a fun small camera but its image quality is not really something to write home about. Comparing to the Olympus and Panasonic M43 is not really useful since their cameras are still using quite old sensor tech. If we compare the J1 against more recent tech, like the NEX-5N and the Pentax K5, we see a big difference:
camera,  score,  range, iso
J1,          56,  11evs, 372iso
NEX-5N,  77,  12.7evs, 1079iso
K5,         82,  14.1evs, 1162iso

dxo mark comparision

That is a very big difference in my opinion. In my opinion, the Nikon 1 should be compared more to good P&S cameras. It surely does well there image quality wise, and with the fast AF. However, it is also not really as pocketable as a P&S -- and once you make that compromise, perhaps a NEX or small DSLR may offer more bang for the buck.

Just my 2c.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2011, 11:23:02 PM »
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Hi Bernard,
I don't post much but I always enjoy reading your posts and influenced by you, even started doing some stitching recently :-)

However, I think you are a bit overly enthusiastic about the Nikon 1. Sure it seems  a fun small camera but its image quality is not really something to write home about. Comparing to the Olympus and Panasonic M43 is not really useful since their cameras are still using quite old sensor tech. If we compare the J1 against more recent tech, like the NEX-5N and the Pentax K5, we see a big difference:
camera,  score,  range, iso
J1,          56,  11evs, 372iso
NEX-5N,  77,  12.7evs, 1079iso
K5,         82,  14.1evs, 1162iso

dxo mark comparision

That is a very big difference in my opinion. In my opinion, the Nikon 1 should be compared more to good P&S cameras. It surely does well there image quality wise, and with the fast AF. However, it is also not really as pocketable as a P&S -- and once you make that compromise, perhaps a NEX or small DSLR may offer more bang for the buck.

Just my 2c.

Yes, the NEX has much better image quality, but the question is whether it matters for the cases when I use a Nikon J1.

My personnal answer is that d80 like image quality like the one provided by the J1 on a camera that gets the focus right in most conditions is what I need.

If I need NEX image quality and can deal with the additional bulk of the lenses, then I will bring my D7000. As I mentioned before, the gap in image quality between a J1 and a Canon 1Ds is small at moderate ISOs, that tells me something about its abilities as a photographic tool.

Quality has zero absolute meaning. Most 4:3 camera users are very happy about the images delivered by their camera relative to their needs. All I am saying is that the J1 does about as well in a slightly smaller, much more responsive and more silent package.

Cheers,
Bernard
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Vivec
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« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2011, 01:01:10 PM »
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Yes, I can see the argument. However, as soon as you have a separate lens, the Nikon 1 is not *that* much smaller than a NEX with the pancake, or a M43 with small lens. All of the mirror-less have lenses that stick out -- and for me personally, that already means they are not really pocketable; at that point, one may just as well go for the best image quality (in that size/weight range), i.e. M9 or NEX. The Nikon has some nice zoom lenses though!
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AndreasE
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« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2011, 03:25:26 PM »
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I got my System 1 cameras about 5 weeks ago.

What started as a kind of so-so relationship developed over time into a rather positive thing. As with all photographic gear, nothing will fit all purposes - neither will the System 1 be able doing so. The reason, why I started getting into this system was that for me Nikon did some of the basics right - to be able and the potential to build a solid platform over time around the new mount, like the company proved it for more than 60 years for the F-mount. A camera is a collection of hundreds of attributes - ranging from technical data, to size, to weight, to form, to usability, to agitility, to image quality to price to name a few. It is rather seldom possible to assess the overall performance of a complex technical thing in one aspect.

What is the value of a superior sensor technology, if the AF is not able to focus in a certain condition? What is the merit of a perfect AF, if the sensor is incapable? What is the value of a great package, if the speed of turning on, let the phtographer miss 50% of his opportunities? What is the benefit of having the smallest package, but you need 5 spare batteries to survive a single day? It's the package, not the individual components.

As an (extreme) example: It is significantly easier to get a sharp photo with better resolution with a J1 and the AFS 30-110 set at 110mm (equivalent 300mm) and open aperture vs. a D3x and the 70-300mm VR (Same output size). Due to the optical limitations of the 70-300mm VR at 300mm and wide open, the superior sensor of the D3x is not capable to show its benefits vs. the "weaker" CX sensor. The combination of vibrationless exposure (mirror and shutter), a superior VR (due to lighter lens elements to shift around) and an AF which by the way it is constructed can not exhibit font/back-focus by design and the benefit of a small sensor for the lens design (perpendicular rays through micro lenses, no vignetting wide open, almost no distortion, good flare/reflections characteristics) make the overall difference.

Shooting 300mm (equiv) at 1/40sec handheld and getting sharp images is not the exception it is the norm. 1/5 sec with the 10-30mm @ 30mm (80mm equiv) is no problem either.

It is this level of "ease of use" which turned my view of the System 1 cameras around. This interaction of subtle things can not be deducted from data sheets, it won't tell the whole story if you look at some test charts. It is this kind of utility of a complete system which creates an experience, value and makes fun. I've only shot around 5.000 photos in 5 weeks for myself and most of them turned out to be above what I expected.

Will I give up DSLR cameras and F-mount lenses? No. Is the System 1 a great complementary system? Absolutely. Will other mirrorless camera systems loose their ability to take incredible pictures? Heck, no. Can there be choice? I bet.

This camera will not win hearts and mind by data sheets, but by users actually using it. Photos printed in high quality in A4 are excellent. If the source image is excellent, printing in A3 is no problem as well. Pixel peeper will hate the quality of individual pixels, a specialized quality which is irrelevant for the intended audience interested in great photos taken with ease.

Take it easy,
Andy


 
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uaiomex
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« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2011, 10:40:45 PM »
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I really liked your post Andy. Clever annotations.

Eduardo




I got my System 1 cameras about 5 weeks ago.

What started as a kind of so-so relationship developed over time into a rather positive thing. As with all photographic gear, nothing will fit all purposes - neither will the System 1 be able doing so. The reason, why I started getting into this system was that for me Nikon did some of the basics right - to be able and the potential to build a solid platform over time around the new mount, like the company proved it for more than 60 years for the F-mount. A camera is a collection of hundreds of attributes - ranging from technical data, to size, to weight, to form, to usability, to agitility, to image quality to price to name a few. It is rather seldom possible to assess the overall performance of a complex technical thing in one aspect.

What is the value of a superior sensor technology, if the AF is not able to focus in a certain condition? What is the merit of a perfect AF, if the sensor is incapable? What is the value of a great package, if the speed of turning on, let the phtographer miss 50% of his opportunities? What is the benefit of having the smallest package, but you need 5 spare batteries to survive a single day? It's the package, not the individual components.

As an (extreme) example: It is significantly easier to get a sharp photo with better resolution with a J1 and the AFS 30-110 set at 110mm (equivalent 300mm) and open aperture vs. a D3x and the 70-300mm VR (Same output size). Due to the optical limitations of the 70-300mm VR at 300mm and wide open, the superior sensor of the D3x is not capable to show its benefits vs. the "weaker" CX sensor. The combination of vibrationless exposure (mirror and shutter), a superior VR (due to lighter lens elements to shift around) and an AF which by the way it is constructed can not exhibit font/back-focus by design and the benefit of a small sensor for the lens design (perpendicular rays through micro lenses, no vignetting wide open, almost no distortion, good flare/reflections characteristics) make the overall difference.

Shooting 300mm (equiv) at 1/40sec handheld and getting sharp images is not the exception it is the norm. 1/5 sec with the 10-30mm @ 30mm (80mm equiv) is no problem either.

It is this level of "ease of use" which turned my view of the System 1 cameras around. This interaction of subtle things can not be deducted from data sheets, it won't tell the whole story if you look at some test charts. It is this kind of utility of a complete system which creates an experience, value and makes fun. I've only shot around 5.000 photos in 5 weeks for myself and most of them turned out to be above what I expected.

Will I give up DSLR cameras and F-mount lenses? No. Is the System 1 a great complementary system? Absolutely. Will other mirrorless camera systems loose their ability to take incredible pictures? Heck, no. Can there be choice? I bet.

This camera will not win hearts and mind by data sheets, but by users actually using it. Photos printed in high quality in A4 are excellent. If the source image is excellent, printing in A3 is no problem as well. Pixel peeper will hate the quality of individual pixels, a specialized quality which is irrelevant for the intended audience interested in great photos taken with ease.

Take it easy,
Andy


 

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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2011, 07:46:08 AM »
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I am just back from a few days in Europe where I used the J1 as a pocket camera. It is indeed just perfect, small, prefect exposure (zero correction applied to any of the images), flawless focus, totally silent and pretty decent image quality.

I have added them to my J1 set on flickr. These were converted using LR3.6, I am eagerly waiting for the Nikon J1 support in DxO v7 considering the quality of their high ISO conversions!







http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/72157627982747408/with/6441381413/

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 04:30:04 PM by BernardLanguillier » Logged

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