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Author Topic: PhotoShop CS6 upgrade discount available only 1 version back?  (Read 17627 times)
RSL
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« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2011, 09:22:15 AM »
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+++++ to everything Bob said. I'm the same way. I simply won't use a "subscription" service on the "cloud." Adobe's thinking in this respect is cloudy.
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JonathanRimmel
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« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2011, 09:47:50 AM »
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This may be good for Adobe business wise, but then perhaps not. Many may move on to other software. I personally use the Design Suite Premium since I am a photographer, graphic designer, and web designer. I too prefer to upgrade only every other version (depending on features included in each version).

I am sick of this whole "cloud" movement. Yes I grew up with the Internet and with the World Wide Web. I like to use it, but I don't want to be forced to. I want to be able to get everything done, even if I unplugged my router and modem. These companies should watch some Star Trek. They had manual backups for just about everything.

Adobe, please don't become another controlling company! I am already forced into a great deal of things by Microsoft and Apple Angry.
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Rob C
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« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2011, 09:57:41 AM »
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Adobe, please don't become another controlling company! I am already forced into a great deal of things by Microsoft and Apple Angry.



Hey, that's the best business model there is!

Rob C
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JonathanRimmel
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« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2011, 11:57:10 AM »
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Hey, that's the best business model there is!

Rob C

Apparently. Although we've let governments do that which worked for a while, now though, not as much.
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ProDesignTools
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« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2011, 01:02:53 PM »
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What inside track do you have with Adobe?

WRT the new cloud subscription service, I won't use it.  First because I don't need all of the software applications that I'd be forced to pay for.  Second, I neither need nor want it.  Third, and related to the second point, I don't want to have to rely on an internet connection to edit images.  Fourth, and related to the third point, at this time internet connections aren't fast enough to make it efficient; particularly in the upstream direction.  

Our company has been official Adobe partners for over five years, and we have regular conference calls and contact with them.  And we'd love to send them some thoughtful feedback here.

Regarding the new Adobe Creative Cloud, there may be a point of clarification on some understandings of it...

If you look at the original Adobe blog post that started this thread, you'll see that it also includes access to all latest desktop Creative Suite applications and Lightroom via standard download and installation.  In other words, your usual products like Photoshop don't have to run online or over the web.

Adobe says those applications will run on a subscription basis at the cost of $50-$70/month for the collection, for annual contracts.  Tablet/touch apps and community cloud access are also included.

Of course, if your membership ends or lapses, so does your ability to run any of the products.

So, does that change the cloud equation at all?  Does it help to explain their big upgrade policy change?

In other words, does that make memberships to the cloud service more attractive vs. permanent licenses...  or does the answer remain the same?

  
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 01:05:38 PM by ProDesignTools » Logged
JonathanRimmel
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« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2011, 01:16:07 PM »
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If you look at the original Adobe blog post that started this thread, you'll see that it also includes access to all latest desktop Creative Suite applications and Lightroom via standard download and installation.  In other words, your usual products like Photoshop don't have to run online or over the web.

Adobe says those applications will run on a subscription basis at the cost of $50-$70/month for the collection, for annual contracts.  


Does this mean we have to pay a subscription to get our programs? Or can we still purchase and use them in the same manner as we always have?
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RSL
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« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2011, 01:17:09 PM »
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Welcome to the forum, Tools. To answer your question, it doesn't make a damned bit of difference to me. I don't want any software that's going to die if I stop making payments on it. I haven't made payments on anything for decades, and I'm not about to start now. If Adobe goes through with this, I'll be through with Adobe. There are other tools out there that can do pretty good work. Furthermore, I'd be willing to bet that if Adobe does this, Nik, or some other outfit will hustle to fill the yawning gap Adobe's going to leave behind.
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Rob C
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« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2011, 01:29:02 PM »
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"I haven't made payments on anything for decades, and I'm not about to start now."


Damned right, too! It's been a system that's led to a hell of a lot of people biting off much more than their wallets can chew! I've always been of the belief that unless you can put the money down, then you can't afford it. I twice bought cars that way, on accountant advice, and regretted it amost immediately. It seemed to lead directly into lean business seasons where I'd have had greater peace of mind just sitting on my bank account; irony being, I could have bought outright, but listened to pro advice and nebulous reasoning about putting the higher cost against tax etc... I should have run with my instincts!

Rob C
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JonathanRimmel
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« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2011, 01:42:20 PM »
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"I haven't made payments on anything for decades, and I'm not about to start now."

Damned right, too! It's been a system that's led to a hell of a lot of people biting off much more than their wallets can chew! I've always been of the belief that unless you can put the money down, then you can't afford it. I twice bought cars that way, on accountant advice, and regretted it almost immediately. It seemed to lead directly into lean business seasons where I'd have had greater peace of mind just sitting on my bank account; irony being, I could have bought outright, but listened to pro advice and nebulous reasoning about putting the higher cost against tax etc... I should have run with my instincts!

Rob C

This is just how I feel. The only thing I made payments on was my student loan. (Which was because I was too stupid to get more scholarships). I prefer to pay everything with cash or my debit (not credit) card. I fear the day may come when we are forced to use debt because no other payment options are available. I hope Adobe becomes a part of the solution rather than the problem. I really like the engineers/programmers over there, they do a fine job, but some of the higher ups... no so much, or at least I disagree with some of their decisions.
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2011, 02:12:59 PM »
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It just seems like a way to milk an already overpriced (especially outside of the US) program, at those kind of prices monthly you'll have paid more than simply buying the program outright in less than 2 years if my maths is right. Let's take PS Extended as an example. With a yearly plan you pay $50 a month or $999 to buy it outright. How many people would have used PS for less than 2 years before buying the program all over again at the new price? That's what you're doing with subscription. Even the new upgrade deal is better than this. Perhaps that's the point, training us to get used to paying more, a lot more for PS. Rather than pay your $999 once and then an extra $350 every two years for upgrade, now you get to pay the entire amount again in under 2 years. Every time.

I'm setting up a large studio in a country outside the US. I asked the main national importer of everything photographic, the people supplying the MFDB's, the profoto lights, the computers, etc for a copy of CS5 as an addition to the $85K package we were ordering. He said not to bother. I said I didn't understand, we needed Photoshop. His comment was that as the price was so high compared to the US price, people just weren't buying it and they didn't bother selling it any more. I'm assuming they mean that people are doing what our studio will be doing, buying it in the US via a contact there, half our parent organisation is in the US so it's not difficult to source. Actually I'm not quite sure that is what he meant....
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2011, 02:44:53 PM »
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Our company has been official Adobe partners for over five years, and we have regular conference calls and contact with them.  And we'd love to send them some thoughtful feedback here.

Regarding the new Adobe Creative Cloud, there may be a point of clarification on some understandings of it...

If you look at the original Adobe blog post that started this thread, you'll see that it also includes access to all latest desktop Creative Suite applications and Lightroom via standard download and installation.  In other words, your usual products like Photoshop don't have to run online or over the web.

Adobe says those applications will run on a subscription basis at the cost of $50-$70/month for the collection, for annual contracts.  Tablet/touch apps and community cloud access are also included.

Of course, if your membership ends or lapses, so does your ability to run any of the products.

So, does that change the cloud equation at all?  Does it help to explain their big upgrade policy change?

In other words, does that make memberships to the cloud service more attractive vs. permanent licenses...  or does the answer remain the same?

  


No, it doesn't change anything.  At least not from my perspective.  Adobe is forcing upgrades every new version release or the cloud option.  As you've seen from the comments here, a number of people don't upgrade every version.  I'm also one of them.  I don't like being forced into a position I don't wish to take.  Adobe wants to move people to the cloud option.  That's clear.  It appears the company has changed its upgrade policy to try and effect that transition by making it more difficult for users to upgrade when it may be better for them to do so.  Unless each and every new version is going to have significantly new and improved tools, there's no good reason to upgrade for each new version.  History indicates that every other version has a more significant set of improvements.  I'd guess that's why a number of people follow the every second release upgrade process.

Are you really interested in taking information back to Adobe?  Or are you here just to try to shill for them and help them justify this policy change?  Why so much cloak and dagger about who you are?  More transparency would be welcomed.
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RSL
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« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2011, 03:17:16 PM »
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Yes, I'd like to know more about you too, Tools.

If you really are able to pass the rumble of the crowd back to Adobe, tell them it doesn't pay to get your customers POed at you. If Adobe would sell Photoshop at a reasonable price they'd probably improve their revenue, and they'd sure as hell improve their market share. During my winters in Florida I teach photography in a retirement community. These are people interested in photography as an art form, with a middle-class level of wealth. These are people who own boats and play golf. I've tried to get them interested in Lightroom, at least, and, hopefully, Photoshop. They won't buy it. A lot of them will buy Elements, but the prices above that are just too high. Some of them use things like Picasa.
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2011, 03:26:42 PM »
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Are you really interested in taking information back to Adobe?  Or are you here just to try to shill for them and help them justify this policy change?  Why so much cloak and dagger about who you are?  More transparency would be welcomed.
I agree - it would be better if the writer of these posts opened up about his/her own identity, and quite a few members of this forum have similar ongoing contact with Adobe.

People can always talk directly to Adobe at http://feedback.photoshop.com/

John
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 03:28:20 PM by johnbeardy » Logged

ProDesignTools
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« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2011, 03:43:25 PM »
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Does this mean we have to pay a subscription to get our programs? Or can we still purchase and use them in the same manner as we always have?

Actually Adobe is maintaining the ability to purchase the same perpetual licenses as usual, with the upgrade period shortened as described.

Are you really interested in taking information back to Adobe?  Or are you here just to try to shill for them and help them justify this policy change?  Why so much cloak and dagger about who you are?  More transparency would be welcomed.

We cover Adobe the company, and write about their products.  Our readers are you, the application users - so if the use of Adobe products increases or decreases, it affects us as well.  

In five years, this is as big a change as we've seen - so we're trying to gauge how it will be received, and what impact it will have.  

Believe me, this is no shill - we have been happy with the way perpetual licenses and upgrades have worked for years, so this cloud membership model is a new world.  We're fairly active on the Adobe Forums, but I wanted to try to get some honest reaction from somewhere more independent and a step away.

So, is nobody in favor of the new cloud all-in-one subscription model then?  Or is it more of a price issue - not cheap enough, or not what you want, regardless of cost?

Thank you all for your feedback, really appreciate it - and will be folding it back to our call with Adobe next week.  We'll also probably be writing another article about it, reflecting customer response.

« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 04:00:14 PM by ProDesignTools » Logged
RSL
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« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2011, 04:36:10 PM »
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Frankly, Tools, if Photoshop in the cloud went for an annual charge of ten bucks I still wouldn't be interested. I move around too much, and I want Photoshop on my high-end laptop when I'm in a motel with less than satisfactory web access. Even in my studio I don't want to have to work online unless I'm ready to go online. The whole "cloud" thing is "modern" and classy, but it's crap.
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JonathanRimmel
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« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2011, 04:39:12 PM »
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So, is nobody in favor of the new cloud all-in-one subscription model then?  Or is it more of a price issue - not cheap enough, or not what you want, regardless of cost?

Thank you all for your feedback, really appreciate it - and will be folding it back to our call with Adobe next week.  We'll also probably be writing another article about it, reflecting customer response.


For me personally I want to maintain the option of doing as we always have. But it could be useful for some professionals who always want/need the latest and greatest to have the subscription option. But the price is most certainly prohibitive. Upon first hearing about the subscription idea, I thought "cool, what a nice idea" but then I read the fine print and promptly said, "no thank you."
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ProDesignTools
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« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2011, 05:35:08 PM »
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Frankly, Tools, if Photoshop in the cloud went for an annual charge of ten bucks I still wouldn't be interested. I move around too much, and I want Photoshop on my high-end laptop when I'm in a motel with less than satisfactory web access. Even in my studio I don't want to have to work online unless I'm ready to go online. The whole "cloud" thing is "modern" and classy, but it's crap.

Hmm, I guess it's still not clear...  Adobe is going to have difficulty with the semantics of this new thing.  It's called a cloud, but subscribers don't need to run Photoshop online, or over the web.  As part of the membership, you receive access to all regular CS tools to install as usual on your desktop.  It's just that those desktop products will only work so long as your membership is active.

So, the naming and branding of the new offering seems to be a stumbling block right out of the gate, is what looks evident.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2011, 05:41:26 PM »
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Like in real life, there are many types of clouds. It would seem Adobe has selected the stormy version. :-)

Cloud is used in relation with very different, and not always closely related, concepts:
1. online data storage
2. application hosting - pure online applications (super web pages if you will)
3. server hosting
4. a new business model based on subscription (aka software as a service SaaS, not to be confused with Sars)
5. ...

Adobe appears to be doing a bit of everything except #3 that happens to be the most mature and useful type of cloud. I believe that #1 does also have value, but is going to be a low margin business just like web hosting.

#3 makes sense for enterprise software with mission critical stakes in cases where on premise system admin requires skills and has a high cost. This is a domain where Adobe is mostly not present but where #4 is often offered with #3 because there are real running costs associated with the hosting of the servers. It really is a service.

Adobe is trying to do #4 without bringing any of the value related to #3. Don't think they will manage to convince many people here.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 06:59:11 PM by BernardLanguillier » Logged

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RSL
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« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2011, 06:16:58 PM »
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Hmm, I guess it's still not clear...  Adobe is going to have difficulty with the semantics of this new thing.  It's called a cloud, but subscribers don't need to run Photoshop online, or over the web.  As part of the membership, you receive access to all regular CS tools to install as usual on your desktop.  It's just that those desktop products will only work so long as your membership is active.

So, the naming and branding of the new offering seems to be a stumbling block right out of the gate, is what looks evident.

Sorry, Tools, but I think it's quite clear, and it's not a matter of semantics. The term "subscribers" is where the idea craps out. The word "membership" then dumps the whole thing into the toilet. I don't want a "membership" in the software I use, and I have no intention of "subscribing" to any software. I want to buy my software, put it on my computers, and get on with it. As I said earlier, I'm not going to make perpetual "payments" on my software. Once I buy it, it's mine -- at least the license is mine.
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« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2011, 06:40:07 PM »
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I read that more than a few here are used to upgrading every other upgrade ..like me .
For those the price will be about 100% higher if the like to continu that way.
It seems a bit unreasonable to do that (to your most loyal costumers..)
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Pieter Kers
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