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Author Topic: Echo Beach  (Read 6841 times)
Rob C
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« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2011, 01:58:17 PM »
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This reminds me of two types of people when it come to decision-making: satisfiers and maximizers. Satisfiers stop searching when they get to a solution that leaves them satisfied, maximizers continue searching until the get the maximum out of the process (e.g., interview all possible candidates for a job or try all possible Photoshop or shooting techniques). Satisfiers are satisfied with the result, maximizers with the process. Satisfiers found what they want and moved on, while maximizers are still searching for the ideal (and by the time they find it, it might be already too late - e.g., sun disappeared). Obviously, I am advocating the satisfiers approach in this case.


This reminds, me, sort of obliquely, of the joke about the chap with the tiny member who went to the ranch in Nevada looking for some extra-marital fun and games. When he disrobed, the girl laughed out loud and asked: 'who's that supposed to satify?' 'Me,' came the simple reply.

I've never been to Nevada, but they say there are lots of snowy mountains there.

Rob C
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Isaac
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« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2011, 02:55:01 PM »
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You lost me at magnolia  Wink
But you're in the UK! Dulux :-)

By the way, you keep asking, but I have not heard what you think could have been done differently.
As degrub suggested a tighter crop - and reduction to more abstract areas of reflected colour.

This reminds me of ...
I think it's more about criteria for accepting a photo as satisfying:
- for meditation, the blank wall will do better
- for relief from monotony, any photo will do better than the blank wall

But we can probably choose from more than one photo and satisficing only helps explain why we didn't choose Echo Beach if the Echo Beach print is one we didn't look at before we made our choice. As soon as we look at one print and don't choose it but move on to look at the next, we're back to the question of why we weren't satisfied with that first image.

while maximizers are still searching for the ideal (and by the time they find it, it might be already too late - e.g., sun disappeared)
I seem to remember Galen Rowell writing that he was repeatedly surprised when a dozen photographers who'd made the arduous climb to some remote peak in time for sunset, snapped their photo and promptly disappeared down the mountain - instead of getting the sunset photos, and then waiting ten more minutes for the chance that the shadow of the earth might appear across the sky.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 06:06:21 PM by Isaac » Logged
Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2011, 11:10:46 PM »
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But you're in the UK! Dulux :-)...

I am actually in the USA, though I occasionally get published in UK magazines.

I really do not get your angle in this debate. You do not seem to find this image particularly interesting or well done, and it is fine. There are several other participants in this thread, myself included, who find it quite good as-is. There is no right or wrong here, just like it or not, or feel it or not.

My point about satisfiers vs. maximizers is meant from the author's standpoint. It can be just as well applied to your scenario, to a viewer or buyer. If I would be the buyer, I would buy it without waiting to go first through gazillion beach sunset photos that I am sure exist today in the universe. Why? Because I am happy with what I see, enough so to stop the search. A maximizer would continue the search, first through the same gallery for a better one, then through other galleries in town, then online. I can guarantee you that with the subject such as beach sunsets he would never stop searching, as there would always be that nagging feeling that, after seeing a gazillion examples, there must be a gazillion +1 somewhere out there that just might be the perfect one.

As for Galen's musings, I actually agree with that. However, I used that example to mean if they were after a sunset image, not dusk image, then they would be late. I personally observed the same behavior as Galen did, and you can find my thoughts here (in the image description).
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luxborealis
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« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2011, 06:36:38 AM »
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When is enough enough? - An age old question whether you are a banker, a CEO or an artist.

Ultimately, artists must satisfy themselves first. As soon as they start working towards satisfying the desires/whims of someone else, their work becomes something other than pure art; e.g. commercial art.

At the same time, the notion of "being satisfied with what I've done" is often used (particularly by students) as a cop-out for not trying harder or not pushing further or not trying to learn more. However, when you've created a truly fine work as Echo Beach is, perhaps it's time to be satisfied. It may not be "perfect" in the eyes of others, but they weren't there "in the moment" and will have a different perspective based on their personal likes/dislikes.

Art is, arguably, the most self-centred thing a person can be doing but that's not a bad thing, it's the nature of self-expression.

An excellent and frank discussion. Thank you. I will pass this on to my photography students for them to chew on.
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Isaac
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« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2011, 09:21:58 PM »
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I am actually in the USA, though I occasionally get published in UK magazines.
My apologies, that was sloppy of me.

I really do not get your angle in this debate. You do not seem to find this image particularly interesting or well done, and it is fine. There are several other participants in this thread, myself included, who find it quite good as-is. There is no right or wrong here, just like it or not, or feel it or not.
I'm still finding out what to expect from these forums, and it seems I should just expect there'll be either fulsome approbation or silent disapproval. (A Facebook style count of Likes without much tonal variation.)

My point about satisfiers vs. maximizers... It can be just as well applied to your scenario, to a viewer or buyer. If I would be the buyer, I would buy it without waiting to go first through gazillion beach sunset photos that I am sure exist today in the universe.
I dare say, but I think you're putting forward the two extremes.

Simon's idea was that we all must make decisions by satisficing because of the practical limits hinted at by the phrase bounded rationality.

Of course it's neither desirable nor practical to bother about the gazillion other photos that might exist - but each of us already has seen a good number of other photos and remembers something of them, and it would be very strange if we only had time to look at this one photo but not a few others.

I used that example to mean if they were after a sunset image, not dusk image, then they would be late.
I thought you stacked your example to suit your conclusion, when it would be just as easy to stack the same example to suit the opposite conclusion :-)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 09:29:55 PM by Isaac » Logged
Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2011, 10:42:01 PM »
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... I'm still finding out what to expect from these forums, and it seems I should just expect there'll be either fulsome approbation or silent disapproval...

How about vocal disapproval? And that is what I've been asking you to provide, apparently in vain, instead of just asking questions as the form of a "silent disapproval".

As for "these forums", those who've been around a bit longer, know perfectly well how vocal we can be in our disapproval, myself included.

As for other aspect of the debate, seems like we are talking past each other, so I'll bow out.
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Slobodan

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« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2011, 06:33:47 AM »
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Not my style , very nice shot but I recommend to try black and white. This will force you to pay attention to the most important elements of the great photograph
texture,form,contrast, shape, composition.
When you discard the colors you focus on what is the most important, when you learn it you can go back to color and I guarantee you that your work will be improved a lot.

I like the composition and warm tones of this shot.
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Isaac
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« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2011, 07:40:52 PM »
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How about vocal disapproval? And that is what I've been asking you to provide
If all you're asking for is vocal approval or vocal disapproval then I'm really not interested - there's little chance of learning from unexplained judgements; and I'm not interested in bashing shaunw's photo, just for the sake of bashing the photo.

(Actually I did reply to your previous question about what could have been done differently - "As degrub suggested a tighter crop - and reduction to more abstract areas of reflected colour".)

just asking questions as the form of a "silent disapproval"
I ask questions out of genuine curiosity - obviously you're seeing something appealing in the photo that I'm not, and I'm trying to understand what you're seeing there that I'm not.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2011, 07:42:45 PM by Isaac » Logged
John R
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« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2011, 09:02:47 PM »
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I can't see anything wrong with this image. It is superb and better than 90 percent of what I have seen on this forum. This is not a critique section, so I thought Shaun was fishing for comments when he posted it. Great image Shaun!

JMR
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 08:15:56 AM by John R » Logged
shaunw
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« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2011, 11:13:29 AM »
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Some debate!!.......As the Author/owner of the image all i can tell is that i remain totally happy with the image because... FOR ME (this is of course the single most important aspect of photography bar none, unless its commercial work of course) is portrays exactly how it felt to be there that evening, a big wide open space with the sea on my right the beautiful sun setting in the distance....................and that was was EXACTLY what i was trying to capture; as someone said.....as photographers we get to totally please ourselves.

There are around 15 versions of it,......this is the one i choose because it best represents what i was trying to achieve (FOR ME)...lol....sorry nothing my profound than that.

with regards to the question ''could it be improved''....of course it could, there isn't a single image on this planet that couldn't be improved.......................to suit the that particular viewers taste!!! I think a much more important question would be....has the owner considered the capture/processing/presentation of the image?

yes the owner has(vigorously as i do all my images); and do i feel the need to alter with the intention of improving the image....no.

FOR ME..it works and i like it 9 months down the line; to all those who like it...thanks really glad you enjoy what your looking at. For those that don't like it ,ok sorry about that i hope you enjoy some of my others, for those who want to alter it... well its not your to alter as i own it and it has been captured/processed and presented FOR ME.

Thanks for each and every comment...

Regards

Shaun Walby

Ps Might i suggest we leave this one here as fun as it certainly has been.




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Isaac
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« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2011, 01:00:02 PM »
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This is not a critique section, so I thought Shaun was fishing for comments when he posted it.
Well, it says "Nature Photography - technical and aesthetic issues" but I guess I should take that to mean a section where photos are posted "fishing for [compliments]" :-)



« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 01:13:24 PM by Isaac » Logged
Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2011, 01:46:51 PM »
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Well, it says "Nature Photography - technical and aesthetic issues" but I guess I should take that to mean a section where photos are posted "fishing for [compliments]" :-)

I posted this in another thread, but it might be relevant here as well. This is not a forum rule, just my observation on what seems to be a consensus:

There are three options when it comes to getting/avoiding criticism:

1. If someone wants a critique, there is a section for it (in The Art of Photography Forum)

2. If you specifically do not want it, but just want to display your work, there is a thread titled "Without Prejudice" in the same section

3. This forum is a bit ambiguous in that respect, as some posters would critique anyway, some would refrain, and some would ask for permission first (the last one refers to editing someone else's work).

Hence, Isaac, no, this thread is not meant for "fishing for compliments", or at least not only for that. If someone wants to use it so, that is ok too, although they can not count on, nor control (except by locking or deleting the whole trhead) if someone else posts a (negative) critique.

So, feel free to critique in this thread too, by all means. Just man up and use your own words for it, instead of hiding behind "degrub's" or behind slightly patronizing, "genuine curiosity" questions.



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Slobodan

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Isaac
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« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2011, 03:15:06 PM »
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So, feel free to critique in this thread too, by all means. Just man up and use your own words for it, instead of hiding behind "degrub's" or behind slightly patronizing, "genuine curiosity" questions.

(Actually "reduction to more abstract areas of reflected colour" were my words.)

I've told you as plainly as possible that "obviously you're seeing something appealing in the photo that I'm not, and I'm trying to understand what you're seeing there that I'm not".

Your continued refusal to accept that I ask straightforward honest questions is offensive. I won't insist that you man up and explain what appeals to you about the photo - but don't call me a liar for asking the question.

« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 04:11:23 PM by Isaac » Logged
Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2011, 08:49:18 PM »
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... don't call me a liar for asking the question.

I understand we disagree, and lets leave it at that, but calling you liar was not my intention, nor it crossed my mind.
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Slobodan

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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2011, 12:05:32 AM »
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Hi,

I like it, a lot!

Best regards
Erik


Northumberland in the NE of the England is known as ''the quite country'' i was out this evening to capture the much photographed Bamburgh Castle...i was late for the Castle, too busy capturing this scene.

All input appreciated...Shaun


Echo Beach by Shaunwalby Photography, on Flickr
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