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Question:  what combinations you choose and why?
Phase One body + P+/IQ/aptus II
H4x + P+/IQ/aptus II
Contax + P+/IQ/aptus II
Sinar/Leaf/Rollei Hy6 + P+/IQ/aptus II
V system + P+/IQ/aptus II
Mamiya RZ67 +P+/ IQ/aptus II

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Author Topic: if you're planning on buying equipment... Phase One/Leaf choose right mount  (Read 8929 times)
EricWHiss
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« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2011, 11:04:14 AM »
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I hate the car analogy and occasionally call out Yair on overly sales'y stuff like 'multishot killer'  however in this case I am writing to back him up.   While they can't do 10 minute exposures like the phase p45+, the latest leaf backs do quite well at 10sec - even up to 30 secs - really.    And if memory serves, I probably could put my two young kids behind the seats in my 1959 190sl convertible and drive them to school - except that I had to sell the car to pay for the camera gear.  Cheesy

Hi Ray,

I hate the car analogy we always use on here but the fact that a 2 seater high-end sports car cannot be fitted with 2 child seats in the back, which most cheap/ used compact family cars can easily do, does not mean it is not a good sports car or that its manufacturer should be embarrassed because it can't be used for school runs...

There are some very good (photographic) reasons for using Dalsa sensors these days as they do a fantastic job for may typical MF/ LF applications

Yair

« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 11:14:27 AM by EricWHiss » Logged

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DeeJay
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« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2011, 12:03:20 PM »
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I wish Phase added Rollei to their mount list. That is the choice I would make in a heart beat and would gladly give the rest the flick.
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Anders_HK
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« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2011, 08:09:01 PM »
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" if you're planning on buying equipment...  Phase One/Leaf choose right mount"

My choice was Rolleiflex Hy6 with AFi-II 12.

Handling a Hy6 convinced me. Having now used it for around six months I am very pleased. It is lightyears ahead of Mamiya AFDIII system in every aspect, including ease, ergonomics, simplicity, quality, reliability. It is also a different way of seeing and has brought me more back to the image. The Xenotar 80/2.8 AFD is the best lens I have ever owned.

The AFi-II 12 files are superb in image quality and not mere more pixels; a very worthy step up from other Leaf backs. Rotating sensor and tilting screen works perfect with Hy6, best solution.

I highly recommend it.

Best regards
Anders
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ondebanks
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« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2011, 03:43:15 AM »
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With such a short flange distance, the S2 could be the new mirrorless camera with a mirror. The Chinese (and Leica) could (does) make lens adapters for other brand lenses. I can put Mamiya, Hasselblad, and Pentax 67 lenses on my 645D. I can even put Leica Visoflex lenses on the 645D.

I hope Holga and Lomo is reading this...

Mamiya lenses on your 645D? As in, Mamiya 645 lenses? I've said previously that if I could focus my M645 lenses to infinity on a Pentax 645D, I'd never look back! But the P645 & M645 flange registration distances seemed to rule that out (no problem for the M645 & S2, though). If there's a solution I've missed, please tell - I'm intrigued!!

Ray
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ondebanks
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« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2011, 04:07:47 AM »
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Hi Ray,

I hate the car analogy we always use on here but the fact that a 2 seater high-end sports car cannot be fitted with 2 child seats in the back, which most cheap/ used compact family cars can easily do, does not mean it is not a good sports car or that its manufacturer should be embarrassed because it can't be used for school runs...

There are some very good (photographic) reasons for using Dalsa sensors these days as they do a fantastic job for may typical MF/ LF applications


Yair, the car analogy is actually a good one.

You see, it highlights where Medium Format sort of lost its way in the digital age.

In the film age, a Medium Format SLR or rangefinder could do ***EVERYTHING*** that a 35mm SLR or rangefinder could do; in some cases it could do it technically better with greater control (faster flash sync etc.), and in all cases it delivered much better image quality.

With film, if 35mm was a "compact family car", then Medium Format was a top-end Range Rover, with the same number of seats (and yes, plenty of room for the child seats in the back too!), but more space, more power, greater visibility, and more confidence in challenging conditions. You lost nothing in moving up to Medium Format; a little less of the automation bells and whistles perhaps, but nothing fundamental to image making, and nothing that a good photographer couldn't do without. You gained - well, we all remember how much we gained in moving up.

Now with a very large segment of the Medium Format digital market, we've gone backwards - the "tool which can do-it-all" philosophy has been discarded, the child seats have been tossed out and it's become a "2 seater high-end sports car", good for some things only.

I cannot be the only photographer who is saddened and annoyed by this.

Ray
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Anders_HK
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« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2011, 05:54:02 AM »
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Now with a very large segment of the Medium Format digital market, we've gone backwards - the "tool which can do-it-all" philosophy has been discarded, the child seats have been tossed out and it's become a "2 seater high-end sports car", good for some things only.

I cannot be the only photographer who is saddened and annoyed by this.

I plain disagree with the above and which implies that we are all alike and of same view. Nor was medium format ever a "do-it-all-tool", it lent to slower and deliberate shooting also with film, and for film also not most versatile tool for sports and wildlife. Personally I wish I would have discovered medium format sooner for film (skipped Nikon and had 6x7 transparencies instead of 35mm). Likewise that I would have passed DSLRs altogether and jumped straight to a Leaf back for digital! Frankly looking back it would also have saved me money.

What I use now is Hy6 + AFi-II 12, and for snapshots my iPhone 4. For my photography (landscapes, travels and portraits) I fail to see the need for a DSLR, and which would lend to a shooting experience I dislike. For snapshots I use iPhone.

Best regards,
Anders
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 05:55:35 AM by Anders_HK » Logged
DeeJay
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« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2011, 07:09:27 AM »
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My MF is my do it all tool. Except for snaps which I use a Leica X1.

I would actually reverse it and say that a dSLR is now a limited tool for me now and that 'back in the day' of 10 shot per 120 roll, MF was more limited because of expense.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 07:11:09 AM by DeeJay » Logged
pixjohn
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« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2011, 12:57:03 PM »
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I use a Leaf back on an H2 body now.  If I was to purchase a new back i would probably stay with the H4X.
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2011, 04:02:43 AM »
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I wish Phase added Rollei to their mount list. That is the choice I would make in a heart beat and would gladly give the rest the flick.

Would be great to see that happen!
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ondebanks
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« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2011, 05:40:08 AM »
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Would be great to see that happen!

Didn't it happen already? (But at a typically unjustifiable extra cost!)

http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/01/31/phase-one-comes-to-the-rolleiflex/

Or was this plan abandoned? I've never seen reference to it since.

Ray
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ondebanks
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« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2011, 06:03:26 AM »
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I plain disagree with the above and which implies that we are all alike and of same view. Nor was medium format ever a "do-it-all-tool", it lent to slower and deliberate shooting also with film, and for film also not most versatile tool for sports and wildlife. Personally I wish I would have discovered medium format sooner for film (skipped Nikon and had 6x7 transparencies instead of 35mm). Likewise that I would have passed DSLRs altogether and jumped straight to a Leaf back for digital! Frankly looking back it would also have saved me money.

What I use now is Hy6 + AFi-II 12, and for snapshots my iPhone 4. For my photography (landscapes, travels and portraits) I fail to see the need for a DSLR, and which would lend to a shooting experience I dislike. For snapshots I use iPhone.

Best regards,
Anders

Anders,

How did you turn my "I cannot be the only..." into your "implies that we are all alike and of same view"?
So a doubtful "surely there is more than one?" equates to an assertive "there is absolutely everyone!"? Of course not.

I abandoned 35mm entirely when I got my Mamiya 645 system in 1992. It was indeed a "do-it-all-tool" for me.

I think you missed my main point, which was encapsulated in the phrase "but nothing fundamental to image making": so yes, I agree with you that MF & film "was not most versatile tool for sports and wildlife", but that's a question of degree. 35mm film could do some things better/easier/cheaper than MF - but the point is that MF could still actually do them if you tried. It was not technically disabled from taking on sports and wildlife; I've seen plenty of examples. With few exceptions now - and that's a dwindling number of exceptions given the sensor direction that PhaseOne is going in - it is technically disabled from taking on very long exposures, which I view as fundamental to image making in some applications. Even if you never need to make long exposures (and I know that's the majority of people here) you might appreciate this deeper point about the changed "philosophy" and utility of medium format.

Ray
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2011, 05:10:41 PM »
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Didn't it happen already? (But at a typically unjustifiable extra cost!)

http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/01/31/phase-one-comes-to-the-rolleiflex/

Or was this plan abandoned? I've never seen reference to it since.

Ray

That refers to the 6008 not the Hy6.
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theguywitha645d
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« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2011, 06:00:43 PM »
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Mamiya lenses on your 645D? As in, Mamiya 645 lenses? I've said previously that if I could focus my M645 lenses to infinity on a Pentax 645D, I'd never look back! But the P645 & M645 flange registration distances seemed to rule that out (no problem for the M645 & S2, though). If there's a solution I've missed, please tell - I'm intrigued!!

Ray

Ray, sorry, my bad. I am not sure where I got the idea--probably read it on the internet. Wink
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ondebanks
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« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2011, 04:03:56 AM »
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Ray, sorry, my bad. I am not sure where I got the idea--probably read it on the internet. Wink

No worries mate Smiley
Goddamn internet - I think we should all keep well away from it!  Cheesy

The other way around should be possible (P645 lens -> M645 body), but I've never come across a commercial adapter; just one reference to someone who said they were looking into getting one custom made.

The Pentax 645 300/4 EDIF would be one lens worth adapting, at least to the manual focus bodies: beats the M645 300/5.6 on speed and ED glass, beats the M645 300/2.8 on price and weight; it's a nice "middle way". Would also be nice to see a shoot-out between the Pentax 300/4 and the Mamiya AF 300/4.5 on the same body.

Ray
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ondebanks
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« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2011, 04:05:13 AM »
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That refers to the 6008 not the Hy6.

Ah, of course. (I still think 600x when I read "Rollei mount").
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