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Author Topic: Budget Cine Lens Test  (Read 13782 times)
ChristopherBarrett
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« on: December 12, 2011, 07:49:55 PM »
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I just got in from Portland where a few RedUsers put together a big Lens Shootout at Tim Whitcomb's studio there.  We had a number of Epics on hand and some very interesting lenses.  We used my camera (with Canon Eos mount) to test Matthew Duclos' set of Leica R Cine Mod'd glass.  We had three test stations... outdoor, indoor and flare.  Results will start showing up at RedUser over the next week.  This is our list of Test Glass...

1. RED PRO PRIMES - Shawn Nelson
2. Illumina S35 - Paul Nordlin
3. Cooke Panchros - Christopher Barret
4. UniQoptics Signature Series- Paul Engstrom
5. Schneider Cine-Xenars - Illya Friedman - Hot Rod Cameras
6. Leica R (Duclos Mod) - Matthew Duclos
7. Zeiss Compact Primes (V2) - Justin Alpern - Illya Friedman

These sets range from about 15k to 46k.  I totally fell in love with the little Leica's and plan to outfit a set of at least the fast ones to augment my Cookes.  It was really kind of a blast and I'm anxious to see footage.  I'll post links to this thread as they become available.

CB
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Sareesh Sudhakaran
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« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2011, 10:12:41 PM »
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This is definitely interesting. Thanks for sharing. I'm rooting for Leica-R!
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Matthew Duclos
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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2011, 02:37:00 PM »
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I didn't even know LL had a forum until Chris mentioned it the other day. It was great meeting you at the test Chris. I plan on frequenting this forum for a little more exposure to still photography topics as opposed to the cinema forums I've wandered for the past five years.
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fredjeang
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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2011, 03:10:56 AM »
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I'm also really interested to see those Leica R. They already work very well with the 5D2 in stills.

But gentlemen, couldn't we use a code ? for example that the Leica R could be "LRL" or "LORL" (leica-optic-r-lens), or "LOL"
because the thing is that if they work brilliantly, ebay and shops are going to be in flame and in a question of hours prices will rise-up to the ridiculous...

Discretion, discretion...we will all benefit.

Then the question is if a R owner can send the R lenses to Duclos for the adaptation?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 04:13:16 AM by fredjeang » Logged
ChristopherBarrett
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« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2011, 06:54:26 AM »
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I dunno Fred.  I've been scouring eBay and the prices are already ridiculous for used glass.

Wink
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fredjeang
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« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2011, 09:37:46 AM »
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Gosh ! yeah...

I've looked and made phone calls.

I should have bought some units a year or so ago when I saw them ridiculously cheap (german summilux included) in some Madrid shops. Now the R party is over, welcome to speculative trade.

And it remains to be seen if they would bring superior quality in motion to the Ts, STs, and ZOMs (if you want the codes keys  Roll Eyes mail me )
« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 01:30:33 PM by fredjeang » Logged
bcooter
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« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2011, 04:26:47 PM »
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We tested a lot of lenses . . . most lenses and though I like Leica glass, I don't think you'll see a nickle's difference between the Zeiss nikon mount lenses and a Leica R lens.

We are now buying some RED Primes and I like there primes, but nothing I've seen is sharper than those little Zeiss lenses in a Nikon mount.

IMO

BC
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ChristopherBarrett
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« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2011, 04:48:03 PM »
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If you like the Zeiss, you'll dig the RPP's.  They're on the big/heavy side and the focus marks tend to be off, but the glass is supposed to be awesome, cool and sharp like Zeiss.  Our testing will pit the Leicas against the Compact Primes which are the same glass as the ZFs. Killer thing about Cine cameras... so many lens options!

CB
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bcooter
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« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2011, 06:07:23 PM »
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If you like the Zeiss, you'll dig the RPP's.  They're on the big/heavy side and the focus marks tend to be off, but the glass is supposed to be awesome, cool and sharp like Zeiss.  Our testing will pit the Leicas against the Compact Primes which are the same glass as the ZFs. Killer thing about Cine cameras... so many lens options!

CB

Maybe I'm missing it but what's the point of a heavier lens that cost more money with the same results?
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ChristopherBarrett
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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2011, 07:38:15 PM »
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LoL...  You've always got a point to make, don't ya?  Of course it's usually a pretty solid point.  Still, the CPs do have fans because of their cine housing.  Somebody brought (or sent) a set to test, so we tested 'em.  Actually, though... if you're running a full cine rig, then the CPs give you common front elements and geared focus, so lens swaps are painless, and believe it or not this drives almost all the design of every cine lens being manufactured.  When I'm swapping out the Cookes I never have to move the follow focus or change the matte box.  That makes for more fluid shooting.

Personally, I would go with the ZF's over the CP's.  You can get the 35/50/85 in f/1.4 where they are limited to 2.1 in CP design.  I also love their form factor.  I have the 35mm and 85mm (sort of randomly).  I can throw either on the Epic and have a sub 10lbs 5k cine camera.  That rocks.  I love the little glass for jib work and handheld too.  I started buying the Leicas this morning.  My ZFs will be for sale.  I really need to have a Gear Garage Sale.

I'm rambling, the wine is taking hold.  Better put down the laptop and pour another glass.

CB

by the way... if you are adapting any glass to Canon Eos mount... use these.  Don't touch anything else!  This shit is the shit!
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bcooter
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« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2011, 09:16:14 PM »
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LoL...  You've always got a point to make, don't ya?  Of course it's usually a pretty solid point.  Still, the CPs do have fans because of their cine housing.  Somebody brought (or sent) a set to test, so we tested 'em.  Actually, though... if you're running a full cine rig, then the CPs give you common front elements and geared focus, so lens swaps are painless, and believe it or not this drives almost all the design of every cine lens being manufactured.  When I'm swapping out the Cookes I never have to move the follow focus or change the matte box.  That makes for more fluid shooting.

Personally, I would go with the ZF's over the CP's.  You can get the 35/50/85 in f/1.4 where they are limited to 2.1 in CP design.  I also love their form factor.  I have the 35mm and 85mm (sort of randomly).  I can throw either on the Epic and have a sub 10lbs 5k cine camera.  That rocks.  I love the little glass for jib work and handheld too.  I started buying the Leicas this morning.  My ZFs will be for sale.  I really need to have a Gear Garage Sale.

I'm rambling, the wine is taking hold.  Better put down the laptop and pour another glass.

CB

by the way... if you are adapting any glass to Canon Eos mount... use these.  Don't touch anything else!  This shit is the shit!


I only use the little Zf's if I'm pulling focus myself when shooting.  It's not possible to pull your own focus on most cine housing lenses with a subject crossing a street and passing the camera as the focus pull is over a full turn and with the little zf's it's about 1" of turn.

I like the CP's, but we went with the RED's for PL mount primes because the one's I tested were sharp and they are fast at 1.9.

We run one RED with a nikon mount, 1 with a PL mount.

IMO

BC
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Tim Jones
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« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2011, 02:32:16 PM »
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I wish someone would compare all the
All the lower end still to cine glass.
 I'd like to see the canons FD, EF,
Against the Nikors and the Ziess, CP2
ZE . And, leica R
  Wide to 85mm.
Anyone every done it?

I have been gathering Leica R, and I can
Say. That the 28 is incredibly good.
Thanks,
Tim
www.tjphoto.net
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fredjeang
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2011, 03:29:54 PM »
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In general you can't go wrong with the Summilux. I like a lot the 35mm 1.4.

The fast FD lenses perform very well IMO. I like a lot the mount system.

I think that in video HD the performances of the top "vintage" lenses tend to be very similar whatever the brand is. I've heard very good reports on some Rokkor, OM glasses perform very well included the recent Zuikos digital that have a superb quality IMO on par with the good Leicas etc...

In general, what was/is recognized as a very good lens will deliver great results. But then it's more a matter of construction design. For ex, if the focussing ring has a short or long range has consequences. If the aperture is continuous or not has also consequences. What I like with the GH2 is that the sensor size allows certain M39 without vigneting, and on this line there are really cool glasses if do not need wide.
And of course no need to say that the zooms with a non continuous aperture are problematics in motion etc...
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 03:32:00 PM by fredjeang » Logged
ChristopherBarrett
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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2011, 05:22:10 PM »
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Here are the Blind Tests if you'd like to have a look.

The Lenses will be revealed in one week.

Interior test with model (tungsten)

Flare test and low light skin tones (tungsten)

Exterior with model (perfect overcast day)
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fredjeang
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« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2011, 05:23:31 AM »
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Geee...informative but...
after the set number 3, I was starting to fall literally asleep.
I mean, you guys just found a product that would solve millions of people ww who can't find their sleep or have high arterial blood pressure. Efficiency guarantee!
The Boudhists and Zen meditation hardcore movies for high-end practicionners are a sweet joke compare to that.
That should be a standard medication applied for all the overstressed individuals of the first world. 5 minutes of this movie each day before sleeping
and the cost of social security will go down miraculously.

Couldn't you do that the model reading the newspaper were in bikini, like a bathing suits 2012 summer collection?
Instead of (highly depressing) Portland bloody Oregon in the winter, a lens test in the Bahamas?
Or in Las Vegas to keep-up with Red habits.

My advice is that the next time you do a lens testing, hire Hywel with his bd models. You'll see how the audience curve is going to rise-up.
That's the way testing should be done, and the color chart could be printed on the bathing suit, one color chart in the right chest and a
b&W wheel in the left one. And between the legs, a moiré pattern?

My favs indoors are sets 1 and 4, but all those glasses are pretty damn close.
 
« Last Edit: December 17, 2011, 06:30:34 AM by fredjeang » Logged
Rob C
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« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2011, 08:18:44 AM »
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I see your point, Fred, but so did the model. And also the photographer. Those delightful out-of-focus seconds between shifts in area coverage were exactly how I feel when I judge the time has come to switch off and go to bed.

Poor girl sould be given a medal for pretending to read. Or an Oscar.

I never got beyond T/5.6, so maybe I missed the moment. But anyway, I don't really think bikinis are the answer if they are going to be sitting reading El Dia - you need movement, even as in Baywatch, perhaps? It's a strange thing: I've never actually seen Baywatch, only those constant reruns of the ladies running along the beach in slomo that are shown as the essence of it...

;-)

Rob C
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2011, 02:15:20 AM »
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I started answering but rambled so much I started a new topic!.. http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=60413
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ChristopherBarrett
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« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2011, 11:50:00 AM »
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The results are in:   http://www.ryanewalters.com/Videos/Tests/tests.html

Long story > short... the Cookes did very well.  Ahh, that makes my wallet feel better.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 12:32:04 PM by CBarrett » Logged
fredjeang
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« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2011, 02:58:02 PM »
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The results are in:   http://www.ryanewalters.com/Videos/Tests/tests.html

Long story > short... the Cookes did very well.  Ahh, that makes my wallet feel better.

In the blind test #1 my favs were the Cookes and the Red primes.
But they all have their strenghs. All very good lenses. I'm not as hot hot with the Leicas wich on the blinds were the ones I liked less each time.
So I know at least it's not for me.

out-of-topic ps:

Just come back from set and I don't know you guys but everytime we have a break in a bar, every assistant are playing with their I.phones. "have you downloaded this or that?".
The all breaks are spent in I.phones conversations. Each time it's the same.
I'm just looking at that with absolutly zero interest, but as it's the only topic that seems to animate the plateaux on the pauses, I feel somewhere out-of-the-game.
Am I alone not being interested at all in the I.phone gadgetery on set?
Or have you beaten also to this fashion guys.


Anyway, I want to thank Chris and the others for bringing this testing. Always informative. I needed to take zillion coffees and Redbull drinks to be able to watch them from beginning to end without falling in deep hypnotic state,
and avoided successfully a depression with the outdoor background surrowndings, but I value the time spent on that by all those experienced pros.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 03:05:19 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Tim Jones
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« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2011, 06:26:47 PM »
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 Wow, what a surprise,the Cine lenses are best. You get what you pay for, I think i prefer the Red Pro Primes .  The Leicas looked OK, but i don't think the focus racking looked too good at all.
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