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Author Topic: NEX 7 downsize compared with M9  (Read 8713 times)
uaiomex
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« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2011, 12:19:00 PM »
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I'm sure the 1DX will print with more detail than the Nex 7 because of its FF sensor. Beyond 12800 it will send the Nex 7 to ignominy.
Eduardo

Looks like NEX7 wins over M9 again at 1600.

From my point of view, I am interested in taking candid, non-flash photos of real people, who aren't posing for a photo, who are moving normally (e.g. children), in non-noon light such as indoors. I want to see natural appearing, low noise photos - something that matches what my eyes can see.  This is where digital photography has a difficult time making good photos.  The field is disappointing in this regard.

One needs a camera that easily goes up to at least ISO 25,000 to 50,000 so that the shutter speed can be at least 1/250th sec at f/8.  This is where the new Canon 1Dx becomes very interesting - albeit at a lower resolution than the NEX7.  However, I'd like to see a smaller, lighter camera capable of this.

To me, the NEX7 is just a more capable Canon G10.  The camera can take high resolution photos at low ISO speeds.  But it hasn't moved the state of the art far enough. It still cannot see close to what the human eye can see. I've been waiting years for that.
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ziocan
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« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2011, 02:20:58 PM »
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I'm sure the 1DX will print with more detail than the Nex 7 because of its FF sensor. Beyond 12800 it will send the Nex 7 to ignominy.
Eduardo

At 7k (6k more than a nex 7) the 1Dx, better be that good at 12800 iso.
Although, I would not be so sure about showing more detail at 'normal' iso speeds. The nex 7 already shows a tiny more detail than the a900, which is a 24mp FF.
Unless we are talking about foveon like pixels, 18mp will always give less detail than 24mp.
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uaiomex
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« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2011, 02:53:38 PM »
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Possibly. I understand a top Leica lens was used on the Nex 7. With Sony lenses, we will never see this detail. Probably with the Zeisses neither. I have to see real life 24X36 prints to compare to believe this camera is better at detail and overall quality over any FF camera over 16mp. Sorry, I am like Saint Thomas. No see , no belief.
Eduardo

At 7k (6k more than a nex 7) the 1Dx, better be that good at 12800 iso.
Although, I would not be so sure about showing more detail at 'normal' iso speeds. The nex 7 already shows a tiny more detail than the a900, which is a 24mp FF.
Unless we are talking about foveon like pixels, 18mp will always give less detail than 24mp.

« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 03:01:18 PM by uaiomex » Logged
pegelli
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« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2011, 12:03:48 AM »
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.......... With Sony lenses, we will never see this detail. Probably with the Zeisses neither. ............ Sorry, I am like Saint Thomas. No see , no belief.
Eduardo

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Did you ever look at pictures from the CZ 135 before your wild speculation?
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pieter, aka pegelli
brianrybolt
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« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2011, 04:32:16 AM »
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Looks like NEX7 wins over M9 again at 1600.

From my point of view, I am interested in taking candid, non-flash photos of real people, who aren't posing for a photo, who are moving normally (e.g. children), in non-noon light such as indoors. I want to see natural appearing, low noise photos - something that matches what my eyes can see.  This is where digital photography has a difficult time making good photos.  The field is disappointing in this regard.

One needs a camera that easily goes up to at least ISO 25,000 to 50,000 so that the shutter speed can be at least 1/250th sec at f/8.  This is where the new Canon 1Dx becomes very interesting - albeit at a lower resolution than the NEX7.  However, I'd like to see a smaller, lighter camera capable of this.

To me, the NEX7 is just a more capable Canon G10.  The camera can take high resolution photos at low ISO speeds.  But it hasn't moved the state of the art far enough. It still cannot see close to what the human eye can see. I've been waiting years for that.



In the meantime I would buy some faster glass.  135mm f/1.8 Sony/Zeiss will give you 200mm on the NEX-7; Voightlander Nokton 50mm f/1.1 = 75mm equivalent, etc., etc.
Brian
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Fine_Art
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« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2011, 12:55:29 PM »
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What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Did you ever look at pictures from the CZ 135 before your wild speculation?

Agree. Clearly someone has never used a Sony/Minolta lens.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #26 on: December 25, 2011, 01:17:55 AM »
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Hi,

So Sony has an excellent 135/1.8 lens? I was thinking about buying it, but:

- I don't feel 135 mm is a focal length I use very often.
- I very seldom shoot at full aperture
- Is AF on the Alpha 900 I have good enough to accurately focus at f/1.8?

I have a 70-300/4.5-5.6G lens, but started using my 25 year old 80-200/2.8, which actually works very well. The 70-300 let me down to many times.

Mostly I use the 24-70/2.8. Corners are not useful at f/2.8 but the lens has a decent size sweet spot, at f/8 it is decent across the field.

Best regards
Erik


Agree. Clearly someone has never used a Sony/Minolta lens.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2011, 06:40:42 PM »
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Lloyd Chambers is starting to test the NEX-7. It will be interesting to hear his views about the camera.

Unsurprisingly, he seems not to be that impressed by the amount of noise seen in images at base ISO compared to top FF DSLRs.

http://www.diglloyd.com/blog/2011/20111227_1-SonyNEX7.html

Cheers,
Bernard
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Kenneth Sky
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« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2011, 10:37:12 PM »
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There are two ways of assessing the NEX 7. First, as a small alternative "carry everywhere" camera that is an alternative to a DSLR. In this respect, from all the reports, it seems to be a superior choice. The second perspective is to judge it against all $1200 bodies. If one compares it to DSLRs of the same cost it stands up well but not above some cameras. But I'm sick & tired of seeing comparisons to a D3x or 1DsMkx. Why not carry this to absurdity and compare it to the IQ180? Let's get back to where we started. Many photographers were asking for a light capable camera with good IQ to carry around when they couldn't lug their bigger and better cameras.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2011, 10:52:41 PM »
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There are two ways of assessing the NEX 7. First, as a small alternative "carry everywhere" camera that is an alternative to a DSLR. In this respect, from all the reports, it seems to be a superior choice. The second perspective is to judge it against all $1200 bodies. If one compares it to DSLRs of the same cost it stands up well but not above some cameras. But I'm sick & tired of seeing comparisons to a D3x or 1DsMkx. Why not carry this to absurdity and compare it to the IQ180? Let's get back to where we started. Many photographers were asking for a light capable camera with good IQ to carry around when they couldn't lug their bigger and better cameras.

I totally agree on the importance of clearly fuguring out the target usage of a camera like the Nex7 relative to the rest of one's line up. But I am not sure to get
- why it is relevant to compare it with a M9 but not with FF Dslrs,
- what the problem is trying to figure out whether 3 years were sufficient to bring APS sensors image quality to the level of FF sensors,

Cheers,
Bernard
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2011, 12:39:09 AM »
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Hi,

One reason is that many owners of Leica lenses are looking for a nice body not costing 8k.

The other question, weather to compare to FF or not is a good one. My guess is that in best of cases the NEX-7 can match FF DSLR-s regarding resolution but the images will have around one EV disadvantage regarding noise, as an APS-C sensor collects about half of the photons compared to FF.

Best regards
Erik

I totally agree on the importance of clearly fuguring out the target usage of a camera like the Nex7 relative to the rest of one's line up. But I am not sure to get
- why it is relevant to compare it with a M9 but not with FF Dslrs,
- what the problem is trying to figure out whether 3 years were sufficient to bring APS sensors image quality to the level of FF sensors,

Cheers,
Bernard
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2011, 12:45:23 AM »
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Hi,

One reason is that many owners of Leica lenses are looking for a nice body not costing 8k.

And FF shooters would not be? Smiley

Cheers,
Bernard
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2011, 06:58:48 AM »
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Any rumors about a 800D lately?

The other thing is that nothing hinders you to put FX lenses on a DX camera. I often do it with the 400/4.5, well actually, I don't I put the camera on the lens ;-)

Oh, by the way, you are aware that the NEX-7 is a cropped frame camera?!

Best regards
Erik

And FF shooters would not be? Smiley

Cheers,
Bernard

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BJL
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« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2011, 09:02:55 AM »
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One needs a camera that easily goes up to at least ISO 25,000 to 50,000 so that the shutter speed can be at least 1/250th sec at f/8.
As an aside, if you are choosing f/8 because that is needed to get adequate DOF in 35mm, you could be doing the same with about f/5 in "APS-C" formats, f/4 with 4/3" format, f/3 with Nikon's new 1" format, which in turn allows you to reduce the ISO speed needed by about one, two, or three stops respectively, to about 11,000 or 6,400 or 3,600 for those formats in place of 25,000 in 35mm format.

Bigger sensors only have a fundamental low-light/high shutter speed advantage when used with "big glass", meaning bigger aperture diameters than smaller formats offer, which means keeping to low aperture ratios.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2011, 05:41:56 PM »
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Any rumors about a 800D lately?

The other thing is that nothing hinders you to put FX lenses on a DX camera. I often do it with the 400/4.5, well actually, I don't I put the camera on the lens ;-)

Oh, by the way, you are aware that the NEX-7 is a cropped frame camera?!

You'd have to be the ultimate caveman not to know everything about the NEX-7 considering the remarkable coverage it has had on LL.  Grin So yes, I know it is a cropped camera. Does it make it less of an option for FF camera users as second/back up camera? Is it not possible to mount A lenses on the NEX?

Regarding the D800, no change from what I read on Nikonrumors. The D4 is supposed to be announced on Jan 6th and the D800 on Feb 9th.

Cheers,
Bernard
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2011, 07:30:53 PM »
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Hi,

Would I have 28/1.4 Summilux on an M9 it would become a 42/1.4 on the NEX. I have both APS-C and FF but use (and carry) different standard zooms for both, 24-70/2.8 on the FF and 16-80/3.5-4.5 on the APS-C. With telephoto the crop factor may be an advantage. Anyone ever seen a telephoto that was to long?!

Best regards
Erik

You'd have to be the ultimate caveman not to know everything about the NEX-7 considering the remarkable coverage it has had on LL.  Grin So yes, I know it is a cropped camera. Does it make it less of an option for FF camera users as second/back up camera? Is it not possible to mount A lenses on the NEX?

Regarding the D800, no change from what I read on Nikonrumors. The D4 is supposed to be announced on Jan 6th and the D800 on Feb 9th.

Cheers,
Bernard

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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2011, 07:55:40 PM »
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Hi,

Would I have 28/1.4 Summilux on an M9 it would become a 42/1.4 on the NEX. I have both APS-C and FF but use (and carry) different standard zooms for both, 24-70/2.8 on the FF and 16-80/3.5-4.5 on the APS-C. With telephoto the crop factor may be an advantage. Anyone ever seen a telephoto that was to long?

Many people use short fixed focal lenses on their FF cameras also.

Cheers,
Bernard
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