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Author Topic: 16 Bit Myth  (Read 24041 times)
deejjjaaaa
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« Reply #140 on: January 02, 2012, 03:23:34 PM »
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I know, from experience, that I can pull enormous amounts of detail and colour from severely under-exposed 16-bit files,

probably the infamous "6 stops of DR advantage" (c) Mark Dubovoy

 Grin
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fredjeang
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« Reply #141 on: January 02, 2012, 04:43:21 PM »
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Myths or not, 8, 10, 14, 16 or 50000 Bits at -200 on the surface of Titan at 1 Mhz or at 0.00003,

It seems that some don't enjoy very much photography. What are you looking for ? I'd like to know.

Like if our hobby-profession had to be monocam.

Enjoy the diversity of owning any kind of equipment, regardless of numbers, graphics, Bits, resolutions etc...simply enjoy photographing with the vastest range of different gear you can afford.

That's how I see the thing.

Look at Michael Reichmann. He touches everything, from MF to minicams like the Nex. But more importantly, he enjoys and produce images with whatever.


I'm very much into micro technology now, small cams. I beleive that they are the future. But I own as much cameras, systems and lenses my budget can afford at the moment. I'd get a Phantom, a Leica S, a Nex 7...etc...whatever.


Enjoy life. It goes as fast as the speed of light. When you'll get older, do you want to remember of you the long technical discussions you had to try to prove something? or the day you've been banned from the forum after insults? or won't you prefer remember when you where enjoying and having fun with your cameras and producing imagery you were proud of?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpIZ_S38A_0
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 05:06:50 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Rob C
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« Reply #142 on: January 03, 2012, 12:32:58 PM »
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Fred-

Thanks for the link. I have seen the series before, in the dim and distant past, but I had also forgotten just how innovative Avedon really was. I seem to keep believing that it all changed in the late 50s, but of course, it was well before that.

I also think it's very simple for somebody in his position (then!) to make easy remarks about not letting anything go, etc. If I had as much hair I might even feel tempted to make such statements myself... and believe them. Unfortunately, not many of us manage to keep going at that pace and at that level - if we even get near to it in the first place. It's often thought that a photographer gets ten good years - maybe fifteen if lucky. Nothing to do with him, everythig to do with his clients and the new, cheaper, exciting offers that come into the office every day. How do you fight off never ending competition without, one day, falling down with exhaustion or burnout?

Watching, I feel this urge to lose fifty years and start all over again... yeah, right.

But on the other things you mention Ė yes, it should be about doing not dreaming.

A single camera would be nice, and for the keen amateur itís a reality, or at least a possibility. The pro doesnít have the luxury unless heís very specialized; even now, retired, I canít be happy with anything much that I have, not because it isnít good Ė I think it is Ė but age and simplicity demand that I go light, and thatís the glitch: whatís the right light? And without breaking the bank? One thing I guarantee: the answer is not a cellphone!

It could be an M6, but it isnít going to be for the simple reason of cost. Yes, I could get one, but why when It wonít ever get the chance to pay for itself? Was a time when bank interest was real, and you could budget your life; now, you watch the numbers get lower on every statement because damn all comes in Ė it all goes on bloody bonus packages to other people.

Ciao -

Rob C
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 12:47:46 PM by Rob C » Logged

amsp
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« Reply #143 on: January 03, 2012, 02:45:05 PM »
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A couple of years ago I went and saw a huge Avedon exhibit and they were showing that documentary in the museum cinema. I have to say that Avedon's prints in real life are nothing short of breathtaking. I also snagged a beautiful limited-edition book that was made specifically for that that exhibition that I treasure dearly. All this tech-babbling is about as far from actual photography as you can get.

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hjulenissen
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« Reply #144 on: January 03, 2012, 03:36:38 PM »
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All this tech-babbling is about as far from actual photography as you can get.
Forum section:
Equipment & Techniques
Thread title:
16 Bit Myth

Did you click here expecting to discuss composition? How do you suggest that the thread topic can be discussed without any "tech babble"?
It seems that some don't enjoy very much photography. What are you looking for ? I'd like to know.
I think it is quite possible to enjoy photography AND try to understand how the tools are working. For some it might even improve their photography if they are able to see through marketing and "guru babble"*) and use their tools efficiently.

-h
*)Claims that are supposed to be accepted at face value due to the experience/status/equipment/... of the source
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 03:43:11 PM by hjulenissen » Logged
Guillermo Luijk
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« Reply #145 on: January 03, 2012, 05:00:47 PM »
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I'm reading and reading this promissed land, hopping I'd get a bonus, a gain, an information that could enhance my skills and techniques, an hidden revelation about high-end equipment that we didn't knew all before. I'm trying to find it, but I can't.

It seems as if the entire world's objective should be to satisfy your needs. Are you planning to give it something in return rather than complaints?
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #146 on: January 03, 2012, 05:31:38 PM »
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So we have the triade. The top 3 of periodic topics in wich we all learn and progress a lot.
In importance order for the photographer.
- MF vs DSLR
- the DR topics
- and the Bits and resolution ones in wich this one belongs.

I totally agree that skills are the most important thing and also that there is no reason why we all should use the same camera. The question triggering all these discussions is "what camera should it be?".

There are a series of factors underlying this discussion that can make it very frustrating for some people and trigger some comments/discussions that don't appear to belong to the realm of adult conversation.

- We have been thoroughly educated to be consumers, which means to prioritize our current wants on top of our possible future needs. In other words, we are manipulated into giving up our own free will to manage our wealth, pushed to give it away to aquire something that is likely not to deliver the real world benefits we once imagined,

- Internet has given the possibility to a huge number of people to express themselves without feeling the responsibility that authors used to feel before publishing something that would be read by a large audience. Many people around also don't use their real name for a variety of reasons. Another of the side effects of this is to expose to more eyes the old reality that some people are so much richer than others that whatever they buy doesnt make a ripple in their bank account, which means that they may not care about the performance of their equipment as much as someone for whom it is going to be the only camera they buy in the next 5 years.

- Underlying all this, we have the digital revolution that perhaps impacted photography more than any other segment. Besides huge benefits, it has resulted in a huge inflation of the price of equipment, probably unheard of in any other segment oh human activity I am aware of. It has also resulted in an acceleration of the performance of cameras such that most DSLRs are in fact good enough in terms of image quality to handle many jobs that used to be the domain of MF film only.

In this context, what is true, what is a myth? What do we need, what do we want? Can a real man shoot landscape without a MFDB?  Grin

This can make it very confusing for some new entrants to decide how much they need to invest in a camera to get capability he/she needs. In my view, this also explains the somewhat violent reactions of some people around here who are reacting not to just 16 vs 14 bits, but to the whole package of things underlying this discussion.

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
fredjeang
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« Reply #147 on: January 03, 2012, 05:51:13 PM »
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I totally agree that skills are the most important thing and also that there is no reason why we all should use the same camera. The question triggering all these discussions is "what camera should it be?".

There are a series of factors underlying this discussion that can make it very frustrating for some people and trigger some comments/discussions that don't appear to belong to the realm of adult conversation.

- We have been thoroughly educated to be consumers, which means to prioritize our current wants on top of our possible future needs. In other words, we are manipulated into giving up our own free will to manage our wealth, pushed to give it away to aquire something that is likely not to deliver the real world benefits we once imagined,

- Internet has given the possibility to a huge number of people to express themselves without feeling the responsibility that authors used to feel before publishing something that would be read by a large audience. Many people around also don't use their real name for a variety of reasons. Another of the side effects of this is to expose to more eyes the old reality that some people are so much richer than others that whatever they buy doesnt make a ripple in their bank account, which means that they may not care about the performance of their equipment as much as someone for whom it is going to be the only camera they buy in the next 5 years.

- Underlying all this, we have the digital revolution that perhaps impacted photography more than any other segment. Besides huge benefits, it has resulted in a huge inflation of the price of equipment, probably unheard of in any other segment oh human activity I am aware of. It has also resulted in an acceleration of the performance of cameras such that most DSLRs are in fact good enough in terms of image quality to handle many jobs that used to be the domain of MF film only.

In this context, what is true, what is a myth? What do we need, what do we want? Can a real man shoot landscape without a MFDB?  Grin

This can make it very confusing for some new entrants to decide how much they need to invest in a camera to get capability he/she needs. In my view, this also explains the somewhat violent reactions of some people around here who are reacting not to just 16 vs 14 bits, but to the whole package of things underlying this discussion.

Cheers,
Bernard


You know what really excites me recently?  The Red Epic and This Nikon V1. (footage of the V1 is far from being ridiculous. It's a high performance camera).

I might actually get the V1 before I got the Red 1...

Your points are perfectly valid. (erased my previous post because it was a bit provocative and this thread doesn't need that, imo)

Cheers.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #148 on: January 04, 2012, 01:25:44 AM »
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You know what really excites me recently?  The Red Epic and This Nikon V1. (footage of the V1 is far from being ridiculous. It's a high performance camera).

I might actually get the V1 before I got the Red 1...

I have been using a J1 for some time now, but need to explore more its capabilities as a video camera. It works very well for me as a compact camera.

As far as the Red goes... that is far above budget for me. I am also not sure that 4K makes sense at this point of time for non pro applications, but the files sure look amazing.

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
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