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Author Topic: Teaching the Monkey  (Read 28184 times)
fotometria gr
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« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2012, 01:44:01 PM »
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'What strange psyche believes that two emails, printed out, then scrunched up, are important in any way? The creator of that masterpiece looked genuinely shocked when he was told that it was (literally) rubbish. He left, head down, cradling the screwed-up paper lovingly in his hands. ... The judges were kinder to some of the other entries one thought the hanging whistle was "simple, radical, with strong sexual connotations". There was, however, a wonderful moment when an artist stumbling to explain the merit of some chairs he'd thrown on the floor was told: "This is the biggest load of bull---- I've ever heard." And that from Tracey Emin!

As Emin well knows, though, the question of what makes art, and what makes good art, has been around from Duchamp's urinal to Hirst's pickled shark. And there's a single answer an answer that keeps art colleges going, keeps students believing that they really will change the world one day. Why is it art? Because I say so.'

Art? Even Tracey Emin said it was rubbish


'Why, I ask, is my unmade bed just an unmade bed and hers is art? "Because you didn't say that yours was art and you didn't feel that it was. I saw it as art and felt that it was. I said that it was and showed that it was. I have transferred what I feel on to someone else looking at it. That's the alchemy. That's the magic. I was the person who had to have the conviction in the first place. If you think about it, is it really worth all those fights and arguments and trauma to defend something that isn't real? No, it's not."'

'I really know what I'm talking about. I'm a brilliant f***ing artist' - Tracey Emin interview
The problems of art with people appreciation of it... defined by artists! Only art can help them find their way and this way is through art,  ...its really a circle. Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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Isaac
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« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2012, 10:55:45 AM »
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The problems of art with people appreciation of it... defined by artists! Only art can help them find their way and this way is through art,  ...its really a circle.

Break the circle -

"When David Frost asked Tracy Emin on his TV show why her bed was a work of art, she replied 'Because I say it is'. He did not then ask her, as he could have done, 'But who says you're an artist?' Artists do not, by any means, hold all the cards; they are free to try to be artists, but others are also free to decide for themselves whether they have achieved their goal."

p76 The Eclipse of Art: Tackling the Crisis in Art Today
« Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 11:10:11 AM by Isaac » Logged
fotometria gr
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« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2012, 11:48:59 AM »
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Break the circle -

"When David Frost asked Tracy Emin on his TV show why her bed was a work of art, she replied 'Because I say it is'. He did not then ask her, as he could have done, 'But who says you're an artist?' Artists do not, by any means, hold all the cards; they are free to try to be artists, but others are also free to decide for themselves whether they have achieved their goal."

p76 The Eclipse of Art: Tackling the Crisis in Art Today
Obviously.., the difference of my comment is that it was a quote on art appreciation from a public that doesn't necessarily consider themselves as artists, nor think of art as important. This is only one part of art crisis, the other being the quality of art that is produced today, but again I don't think that the later can be a discussion through web, ...it does need eye crossing, tobacco and filled glasses between people. Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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Rob C
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« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2012, 12:18:10 PM »
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Obviously.., the difference of my comment is that it was a quote on art appreciation from a public that doesn't necessarily consider themselves as artists, nor think of art as important. This is only one part of art crisis, the other being the quality of art that is produced today, but again I don't think that the later can be a discussion through web, ...it does need eye crossing, tobacco and filled glasses between people. Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr



Yes, but discussing art with too much booze around can be as sterile as the art itself might be.

Such chat is, however, entertaining, and as seems obvious from here on the Internet, everyone is perfectly capable of being his own expert, including myself.

I'm repeatedly struck by the virtually absolute absence of ladies in these discussions; that's a real pity because they do have a very interesting set of alternative views to offer, could they but be bothered. Let's face it: women have a far better colour sense, can do interiors better than most guys I know, and find matching clothes etc. a piece of cake (well, many do if not all).

How sad to lose their contributions here.

Rob C
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fotometria gr
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« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2012, 12:52:38 PM »
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Yes, but discussing art with too much booze around can be as sterile as the art itself might be.

Such chat is, however, entertaining, and as seems obvious from here on the Internet, everyone is perfectly capable of being his own expert, including myself.

I'm repeatedly struck by the virtually absolute absence of ladies in these discussions; that's a real pity because they do have a very interesting set of alternative views to offer, could they but be bothered. Let's face it: women have a far better colour sense, can do interiors better than most guys I know, and find matching clothes etc. a piece of cake (well, many do if not all).

How sad to lose their contributions here.

Rob C
Nice observation Rob, but again with all these code names you never know. OTOH if you have a look at "Magnum" females are not that many... Maybe photography doesn't suit them as other arts, I don't know the reason, but I suspect that it has to do with the knowledge of technical matters such as aperture or focal length, angles or perspective control and DOF that are involved in the process. In my BEng degree I did in Wales 25 years ago, we had two females in three years of courses, they seem to have very little interest in making pictures but they do have good (better than men IMO) appreciation of good photography and can be excellent judges! Its the same with cinema really, female directors are a very small quantity (again possibly because of the technical issues involved). Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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Isaac
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« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2012, 01:24:05 PM »
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... possibly because of the technical issues involved ...

Possibly because of the social issues involved !
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Isaac
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« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2012, 01:32:46 PM »
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Obviously.., the difference of my comment is that it was a quote on art appreciation from a public that doesn't necessarily consider themselves as artists, nor think of art as important.
It's not clear to me what you mean - I think Julian Spalding's point was that "others [who do not consider themselves artists] are also free to decide for themselves whether [those who try to be artists] have achieved their goal [of being artists]."
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fotometria gr
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« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2012, 01:47:11 PM »
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Possibly because of the social issues involved !
Hmmm..., I don't know..., I'm sure that if it was because of social issues it would apply in other forms of art as well, it doesn't.. does it? Not to that extend anyway! Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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fotometria gr
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« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2012, 01:56:44 PM »
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It's not clear to me what you mean - I think Julian Spalding's point was that "others [who do not consider themselves artists] are also free to decide for themselves whether [those who try to be artists] have achieved their goal [of being artists]."
It may be my English, I haven't practice it for 20 years..., it used to be much better. I think though you may succeed if you try a little..., I try to expand a bit from what you state above. Regards, Theodoros.
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Isaac
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« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2012, 02:01:50 PM »
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... if it was because of social issues it would apply in other forms of art as well, it doesn't.. does it?

fwiw Why are there so few? (Creative women: Visual artists, mathematicians, scientists, musicians)
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WalterEG
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« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2012, 03:32:31 PM »
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I'm repeatedly struck by the virtually absolute absence of ladies in these discussions; that's a real pity because they do have a very interesting set of alternative views to offer, could they but be bothered.

I shudder at the thought that I am about to make the sweeping generalisation that I am .... but here goes:

Perhaps women just get out and DO and let their work speak for itself rather than sitting around nattering about how it would be if they ever did get out and DO.

I feel I am increasingly in touch with my feminine side and see little, if any, merit in chewing the fat about something which itself is actually a relatively easy and enjoyable pastime - like chattering.

Cheers,

W
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Rob C
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« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2012, 05:08:07 PM »
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It's past midnight, I'm knackered from having fights with the other computer that thinks it's about to die; the best I can do with the link is copy it (done) and read it tomorrow, possibly sending it on to my daughter.

Rob C
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Isaac
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« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2012, 05:22:48 PM »
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... read it tomorrow, possibly sending it on to my daughter.
At your leisure, for your pleasure - it's just an article that Google tripped over and at-a-glance seemed reasonable.
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Isaac
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« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2012, 05:25:09 PM »
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... in touch with my feminine side ...
That's just your masculine side insisting that nothing is beyond your understanding :-)
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DavidJ
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« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2012, 11:48:59 AM »
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Tracey Emin is now Professor of drawing at the Royal Academy!
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David Allen
fotometria gr
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« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2012, 11:50:58 AM »
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It's past midnight, I'm knackered from having fights with the other computer that thinks it's about to die; the best I can do with the link is copy it (done) and read it tomorrow, possibly sending it on to my daughter.

Rob C
Hey Rob, I forgot to ask you if the "Beanbag on the back of Landrover technique"  Wink that you suggested on the artist  Huh that found yours inappropriate for the purpose  Lips sealed, would actually also work on a spacecraft when in take off?  Roll Eyes IMO you should have suggested LSD, thus stability works with some people, I also gave the thread to my daughter to read..., she still LOLs!  Grin. Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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fotometria gr
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« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2012, 12:23:52 PM »
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Tracey Emin is now Professor of drawing at the Royal Academy!
Good! we can now hope that proves to be a good teacher as well. This has nothing to do with the person, but Art appreciation is currently a mess, (getting worst all the time) because of its "leaders" or the "responsible" for its advance! Mind you that by saying "leaders" I don't mean the artists, after all everybody (even if he doesn't know what he is talking about) will remember Picasso, at least for the "Guernica" but I don't know anybody remembering the Professor of the "Spanish or French (Royal or not has to do with the employer) academy" of the times! Actually I don't know anybody that remembers any professor in arts (That is through history), but I do now that Ticiano had a student called Demenicos Theotokopoulos (El Greco), Socrates had a student called Platon and that they where not professors, but were called "Masters" long after they lived, by the future generations. Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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sertsa
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« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2012, 11:30:32 PM »
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That's just your masculine side insisting that nothing is beyond your understanding :-)

Best thing I've read in a while!

 Grin
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LoisWakeman
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« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2012, 01:13:42 PM »
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And you wonder why we don't participate? Sheesh.
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Isaac
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« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2012, 01:40:15 PM »
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And you wonder why we don't participate? Sheesh.
Do you have time to spell it out a little more?
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