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Author Topic: Canon G1x  (Read 16471 times)
BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2012, 07:07:44 PM »
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I'm sure there are more instances for choosing this camera over a dslr. Unless you are 24/365 pro.  Cheesy  

No doubt... now what camera do you use for those instances today and is the quality delivered by that camera really an issue for the intended usage? I mean is it an issue worth an extra 800 US$?  Smiley

My party pictures are mostly sent by email, very rarely printed, never printer larger than 10x15cm. The J1 I use today is more than enough for this, although I am sure that the G1X is in a different league.

Cheers,
Bernard
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BJL
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« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2012, 08:22:53 PM »
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It perfectly fits my needs in the cockpit
I want reasonably good IQ and low light capability
But don't want the bulk or weight of dslr ...
But a DSLR is not the only alternative, or even the closest one; mirrorless systems are closer. And of those, NEX is worst for compactness of a complete camera with zoom lens. To me the Panasonic GX1 is the closest, not only in name.

With either 14-42/3.5-5.6 lens, the Panasonic GX1 kit is at least 20% lighter.

In height and width, the Panasonic is a hair smaller.

With the cheaper lens, the Panasonic kit is longer, and equally priced.
With the collapsible "X" lens, the kit is the same size or smaller, but costs 20% more.

The sensor size difference is about 12% linear, good for about a 1/4 stop speed advantage to the Canon if sensor technology is similar.

The Canon has a greater zoom range of 4x (only the Olympus 12-50 offers 4x in a mirrorless standard zoom).

The Panasonic has a far greater range of focal lengths if and when one needs them enough to carry a second lens, while being arguably more portable on the occasions when one zoom lens is enough.

The Canon has a "peep-hole" VF in addition to the LCD, but it is non-TTL, no no use for manual focusing or DOF judgements, and probably with inaccurate framing, especially at close range.

The Panasonic has an optional EVF, probably far better than the optical peep-hole, but it adds to the cost and bulk.


By the way, the dust issue mentioned in another post is a bit of a red herring: if you can accept never being able to change lenses on the Canon, you can surely accept sometimes not being able to change lenses due to dusty conditions.

P.S. It is not just "X" that is being overkilled, but "X1". Did we ask for a GX1, G1X, 1DX and X-Pro1 all in a bunch?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2012, 08:29:46 PM by BJL » Logged
BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2012, 09:45:26 PM »
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P.S. It is not just "X" that is being overkilled, but "X1". Did we ask for a GX1, G1X, 1DX and X-Pro1 all in a bunch?

Hum... marketing teams will soon be facing a very tough time... only 2 letters left in the alphabet...  Grin

What will they do after they release the 1DZ?
- 1DZZ?
- start back at A?
- ...

I am surprised nobody has done Junior yet.

Cheers,
Bernard

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dreed
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« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2012, 02:49:19 AM »
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That is the thing.

Chances are that the image quality of the G1X is superior in all areas compared to the D2x I used to shoot some of my favorite landscape images with. I always shot on tripod, MLU, cable release and most of my images were as critically sharp as the lack of live view allowed for. It is probably also superior to that of the initial 1Ds that many pro landscape shooters used to replace their MF film cameras.

So it would in fact make sense to shoot the G1X on tripod from an image quality potential standpoint... but does it make sense in terms of total package considering the bulk/weight of the tripod/head? I believe that if you are willing to carry a tripod, you might indeed be better off bringing a top APS-C DSLR like the 7D with better lenses and more flexibility.

Why doesn't a camera like the G1X deserve to be used with a tripod?

Consider that a smaller camera/lens combination also allows for a smaller and lighter tripod.

Why do the rules of how we use the G1X need to be different just because of its form factor?

Isn't that prejudiced of us?
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Chairman Bill
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« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2012, 03:00:34 AM »
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My mountaineering camera of choice was my Rollei 35. Something like that, all manual, preferably with a FF though I'd settle for an APS-C sensor, would be perfect. It's not going to happen, but this Canon looks to be close to it. My Ricoh GX200 is rarely used - the quality is just not good enough, and I carry the D700 & a couple of lenses in stead. That's a lot of extra weight when climbing in the Cairngorms, but rather that & good quality images than the sort of thing I get from the Ricoh. This Canon looks like a good compromise.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2012, 04:37:26 AM »
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Why doesn't a camera like the G1X deserve to be used with a tripod?

Consider that a smaller camera/lens combination also allows for a smaller and lighter tripod.

Why do the rules of how we use the G1X need to be different just because of its form factor?

Isn't that prejudiced of us?

Didn't I, on the contrary, write that its qualities do justify the use of a tripod from a quality standpoint?

My - personnal - questioning is whether the loss in quality compared to another device still makes sense when consireding the - relatively - more modest gain once a serious tripod is considered.

I am not sure why you consider this prejudice?

Cheers,
Bernard
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stamper
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« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2012, 06:28:19 AM »
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The Achilles heal of this (and many other cameras) is the 19-century viewfinder. Sounds like a last-resort option, nice-to-have, just-in-case (and that is why I opted for my G10), but it is so lousy in practice that I never really used it. It is imprecise when it matters the most (i.e., in the telephoto range) and obscured by the lens barrel, has no focusing help and no other information. I sorely miss the intimacy and close contact with the subject that only a proper viewfinder provides. I hate that stretch-your-hands, squint-like-hell, look-like-idiot, touristy way we are forced to use today's p&s. Compare that with the modern EVF and optical hybrids.


http://www.photosolve.com/main/product/xtendaview/index.html

I use it on my Canon g12 and I can recommend it.
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Greg D
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« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2012, 12:38:42 PM »
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As noted in a previous post, Chuck Westfall says the IQ is superior to the 60D / 7D.  Would that be a 60D / 7D with an 18-55 f3.5-5.6 or with a 35 f1.4L?  Hmmm.....  For reasons of weight and cost, I've stuck with X00D cameras (450D currently).  I've owned 40d & 50d, but there's no advantage there for shooting landscape (easier to use, but no better IQ).  Lenses I've used most have been 17-40 f4L & 24-105 f4L.  If the G1X lens can keep up with those, I can easily see myself abandoning my SLR and going backpacking with a G1X and a Gitzo 0530 (total weight less than my current tripod alone).  But of course one must assume the next iterations of the 60D, 7D, etc will have yet better IQ (if not Canon's in trouble, right?).  Heck they might even catch up to Nikon, Sony.....  One can dream, no?
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2012, 01:30:57 PM »
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... the IQ is superior to the 60D / 7D...

There is more to "IQ" than pixel peeping. With those cameras you can use number of lenses below 28mm and above 112mm and number of faster-aperture lenses. A 60D with a 17-55/2.8 is two stops faster at the tele end... would G1X's IQ at 1600 be still be superior to 60D's 400?

Those cameras also have a viewfinder (granted, you would not know what to do with if you are born yesterday and the only way you learn to hold a camera is like you would hold a baby with full diapers, i.e., as far from the nose as possible). If all you ever use is in the range of 28-112mm and between 2.8 and 5.6, then, sure, go ahead and replace that bulky DSLR.

By the way, I am not trying to argue we do not need p&s... we do... I have G10 and will probably go for G1X or similar at some point... what I am arguing is: horses for courses. There are times and circumstances where all we could ever want would be a G1X, and then again, there are other times.

In that respect, G1X appears to be "too little, too late"... which seems to be Canon's new corporate slogan as of lately. When was the last time you saw a non yawn-inducing new Canon?
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uaiomex
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« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2012, 02:47:50 PM »
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 Smiley I don't know if I understand what you imply. (it could be that I am translating)
I use a 5D2 with a short zoom and a 580X or my iPhone4. (as I just said in my former post). I bought a Pana G3 last summer but sold it. Not really happy with it. A cousin of mine loved it and sold it at the same price. Still waiting for that little camera to use under many instances where the 5D2 is an overkill. Or for those occasions where "cheap" equipment is better to carry. Also, thought, that if it is good enough to double as a backup or emergency camera, even better! So, this adds up to the equation too.

I really like the G1X. Will I buy it? Mmhm..maybe. There are so many offers right now, it is staggering. If the Panasonic GX1 had a swivel screen, I would buy it today no doubt.
Since this kind of camera, I don't "need" but would love to have, I can wait till the right one comes. The only permanent thing is change. Especially in humans. Who knows that when the right model gets here, my mind would be somewhere else and I could end up buying a Nex 7 or a S100.  In the meantime, this Canon is ahead for me.

Most party pictures never see a printer, or printed small, you're right about that. Perhaps for this kind of photography manufacturers should come with P&S cameras with light sucking pixels. Think of a Canon S100 with a 4mp sensor.
Eduardo


No doubt... now what camera do you use for those instances today and is the quality delivered by that camera really an issue for the intended usage? I mean is it an issue worth an extra 800 US$?  Smiley

My party pictures are mostly sent by email, very rarely printed, never printer larger than 10x15cm. The J1 I use today is more than enough for this, although I am sure that the G1X is in a different league.

Cheers,
Bernard

« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 03:19:32 PM by uaiomex » Logged
marcmccalmont
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« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2012, 03:09:47 PM »
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But a DSLR is not the only alternative, or even the closest one; mirrorless systems are closer. And of those, NEX is worst for compactness of a complete camera with zoom lens. To me the Panasonic GX1 is the closest, not only in name.


P.S. It is not just "X" that is being overkilled, but "X1". Did we ask for a GX1, G1X, 1DX and X-Pro1 all in a bunch?

Yes you are correct but after dreaming of a colapsable lens compact with a larger sensor for several years and because Canon listened to my dreams I was compelled by the force to preorder one.

When I retire from flying and go back to manufacturing loudspeakers I've decided my next product will be an "X1Pro1X-G2X" !
Marc
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Marc McCalmont
uaiomex
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« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2012, 03:23:52 PM »
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Collapsable lens and big sensor you have them in the Panasonic GX1. Unless like me, the swivel screen is a must have.  Cool
Eduardo

Yes you are correct but after dreaming of a colapsable lens compact with a larger sensor for several years and because Canon listened to my dreams I was compelled by the force to preorder one.

When I retire from flying and go back to manufacturing loudspeakers I've decided my next product will be an "X1Pro1X-G2X" !
Marc
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uaiomex
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« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2012, 06:11:44 PM »
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found this interesting noise tests
http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-1354/compact-canon-g1-x-powershot-bruit-electronique-12.html

Eduardo
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BJL
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« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2012, 06:27:34 PM »
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Unless like me, the swivel screen is a must have.
Oh, I overlooked the swivel-screen in my side-by-side, which could account for a chunk of the weight difference.

I fully expect both a swivel-screen and a compact EVF in the forthcoming EP-X1 from Olympus (now under new management.)
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AFairley
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« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2012, 07:02:28 PM »
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All the new directions are very exciting.  Digital cameras are finally starting to exploit the unique advantages of being digital  (overlays in OVF, switchable EVF/OVF and so on) rather than just mimicking film cameras.  But we still don't have my dream compact yet.  I'm waiting for the NEX-7 with a Panny 14-42mmX on the front.  The Canon is pretty close except for falling down on the OVF.  Replace it with a Fuji X100 VF and you're about there.
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dreed
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« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2012, 07:14:43 PM »
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I suspect that we're looking at JPEGs produced by the camera.
We need to see what sort of detail is in the raw files because above ISO 100, detail is being smudged/blurred away.
In the above pictures, the map is perhaps the best area to see where detail is being lost as it is predominately colour on white.
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2012, 07:56:01 PM »
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A collapsable zoom for an NEX7 would be great too
Marc
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Marc McCalmont
uaiomex
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« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2012, 10:45:23 AM »
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I think you nailed it on both accounts. Especially in the case of the Sony. (parallel thinking).
Eduardo

All the new directions are very exciting.  Digital cameras are finally starting to exploit the unique advantages of being digital  (overlays in OVF, switchable EVF/OVF and so on) rather than just mimicking film cameras.  But we still don't have my dream compact yet.  I'm waiting for the NEX-7 with a Panny 14-42mmX on the front.  The Canon is pretty close except for falling down on the OVF.  Replace it with a Fuji X100 VF and you're about there.
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uaiomex
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« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2012, 01:15:46 PM »
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I was directed to this site.

http://digitalfotoonline.dk/Nyheder/verdenspremiere-se-vores-testskud-med-canon-g1-x

There's one 12800iso jpeg from raw

Eduardo
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aaykay
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« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2012, 02:02:38 PM »
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A collapsable zoom for an NEX7 would be great too
Marc

I believe they are going to be announcing 6 new NEX lenses this year, including a pancake zoom similar to the 14-42 m4/3 lens. 
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