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Author Topic: Lightroom 4 BETA - Its here  (Read 20274 times)
Rhossydd
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« Reply #80 on: January 11, 2012, 08:22:46 AM »
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But how well/fast it works under the hood is another story all together. LR is a memory and disk access intensive program. XP was designed in an era when LR didn't even exist (far as I know).
Just try it.
I have tried it, my main system can be either W7 64bt or, by swapping a caddy, it boots in Win XPP 32bit on the same hardware.
Whilst W7 gives some performance benefits, you'd be pushed to notice it. These sort of small improvements are only significant to benchmarkers and magazine reviewers, in actual use you don't notice any difference.
It's also worth remembering that for a lot of the time LR makes no significant demands on system performance, it's only really when you start doing large imports or exports it becomes demanding of OS/hardware.
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As far as Win7 or LR3 on the netbook, yes, that would be mad.
Actually LR3 works very productively on a netbook and all of them have W7 starter edition on them now. I wouldn't want to export hundreds of 5Dii images from mine, but for basic inspection of files, keywording etc on location, away from a big system it's hugely useful. This why I'm so sore about the lack of XP support or even being able to try to install it, yes some bits might have worked properly, but nothing important to me.
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madmanchan
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« Reply #81 on: January 11, 2012, 08:24:50 AM »
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It does seem to work even though the lens I was fixing is not profiled (EF8-15) plus I was using it under water (in a housing, i.e., additional optics). Very disconcerting not having any control (no sliders). Maybe it should not be under profile??? I was trying to do CA under manual corrections.
Thanks
Tom

I am glad to hear that it worked.  The reason the checkbox is with Manual is due to the expected workflow for most users (i.e., they will want to use it in combination with the lens profiles to deal with distortion & vignetting).  But I understand the naming and placement is a little confusing.

The checkbox does offer several technical advantages over the earlier manual controls. 
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madmanchan
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« Reply #82 on: January 11, 2012, 08:26:36 AM »
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Question on the new beta is it multicore or core image aware?

Yes.  In fact, all versions of Lr (including betas) support multiple cores.
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madmanchan
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« Reply #83 on: January 11, 2012, 08:31:52 AM »
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If the whites tool is for white clipping, what does a minus setting of the highlights tool do in comparison?

Minus setting of Highlights will darken the highlights and perform highlight recovery.  You can think of it has a contrast adjustment, but only for the highlights.

Generally, all six Basic sliders now have the property that left direction of slider means darker image, and right direction means brighter image (exception: Contrast).

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Next question if possible, do the zero value of the tools in LR4 reflect the default values of LR3?

Yes (almost).  Blacks is a little different, since the dark point is now auto-calculated (instead of being fixed), but the default tone curve for rendering a raw file is exactly the same in Lr 4 as it was in Lr 3 (actually all versions of Lr).

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For example the default of the blacks in LR3 is 5. Is the 'zero' of the new blacks tool the same as 5 in the old or is it real zero?

For raw files, Blacks=0 in Lr 4 with PV 2012 is (almost) the same as Blacks=5 in Lr 3.  See previous response for details.

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Ditto with the contrast tool whose default used to be 25? Is the new zero the equivelent of zero in the old tool or 25 of the old tool?

For raw files, Contrast=0 in Lr 4 with PV 2012 is the same as Contrast=25 in Lr 3 (or equivalently, Contrast=25 in Lr 4 with PV 2010).
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #84 on: January 11, 2012, 08:41:15 AM »
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Thanks Eric, that is very useful for building an idea of how the defaults are set relative to what I'm used to. You say that the blacks are relative to an auto adjustment for the image, can you expound on that and how it works? I have had blacks set to 2 in previous versions of LR/ACR as default, how will that translate or won't it and how do I control a default level of clipping if it's applied to each image differently when set to zero?

As per the contrast tool, are the amounts equal to what they used to be or is the behaviour of the tool altered as per the exposure tool, etc? For example my default contrast is 33 for one of my cameras, it's my preferred starting point. If the current 25 value = 0 in LR4, to achieve the equivelent of 33 do I set it to 8 or are the values not similar, i.e. does the tool work differently and I should do some testing to try and understand how the contrast works in LR4?

Many thanks again for taking the time out to explain this stuff, your patience is appreciated!
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 08:48:51 AM by Ben Rubinstein » Logged

eleanorbrown
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« Reply #85 on: January 11, 2012, 09:04:32 AM »
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Beta 4 runs horribly slow on my Mac quad core pro...see the " spinning ball" way too much while waiting for my changes to happen.  I optimize my catalog frequently and also my hard drive and I have 20 gb of ram.  It's so slow I can hardly get anything done...wait at least 5 (or more)  seconds for any adjustment, no matter how small, to "snap in place"....Any suggestions? Thanks! Eleanor
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 01:05:24 PM by eleanorbrown » Logged

john beardsworth
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« Reply #86 on: January 11, 2012, 11:20:18 AM »
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When LR 4 ships you will be able to upgrade the LR 3 catalog to LR 4. Not the beta LR 4 to final version LR 4 as far as I read it. This was also the case in previous betas. Definitely so from LR 3 beta to final version LR 3 you could not upgrade the beta catalog to the LR 3 final version catalog.

You can import a folder with XMP files that are from LR 3 into LR 4 beta. But further edits in the LR 4 beta catalog cannon be taken any further.

That is NOT correct. When LR4 comes out, Adobe are rightly saying there is some risk that LR4beta catalogues may not upgrade to LR4 and you should be aware of that possibility if you do choose to use it. In my view, the actual risk is very small, just worth thinking about. LR4 beta and LR3.x catalogues will upgrade to LR4. For what it's worth, you are wrong about the LR3 beta to final version too.

John
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 02:44:15 PM by johnbeardy » Logged

ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #87 on: January 11, 2012, 02:38:14 PM »
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Hi,

I can confirm you observations.

What I see is that screen updates are not real time when moving a slider. First I had the impression that update was done when the slider was released but now I feels more like periodic. I have a 24 MP DSLR, so my files are smaller than yours. I'm running on 4 CPU MacPro with 16 GByte.

Best regards
Erik


Beta 4 runs horribly slow on my Mac quad core pro...see the " spinning ball" way too much while waiting for my changes to happen.  I optimize my catalog frequently and also my hard drive and I have 20 gb of ram.  It's so slow I can hardly get anything done...wait at least 5 (or more)  seconds for any adjustment, no matter how small, to "snap in place"....Any suggestions? Thanks! Eleanor
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rcloud
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« Reply #88 on: January 11, 2012, 03:40:45 PM »
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thirded on the performance re: macs. 

I have 18MP images and the program absolutely crawls and crashes quite frequently. I've been good about sending in crash reports though. 2011 iMac 27" w/ 12GB ram. 
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rcloud
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« Reply #89 on: January 11, 2012, 03:51:56 PM »
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thirded on the performance re: macs. 

I have 18MP images and the program absolutely crawls and crashes quite frequently. I've been good about sending in crash reports though. 2011 iMac 27" w/ 12GB ram. 

why can't I figure out how to do edits on this forum  Tongue

Anyway a little more information b/c the LR guys seem to read this.  I have a fresh install of Lion 10.7.2, only other programs installed currently are LR3, Aperture, and PSE 8 and omni outliner(great program by the way).  LR4 is having problems with files with DNG exports from LR3 with heavy local adjustments.  Frequent crashes on them.  However, if I export the image as a tiff with the adjustments and add it to the catalog, LR4 is blazingly fast. 
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eleanorbrown
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« Reply #90 on: January 11, 2012, 04:00:00 PM »
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Eric I have the same issues even on my Leica M9 files...eleanor


Hi,

I can confirm you observations.

What I see is that screen updates are not real time when moving a slider. First I had the impression that update was done when the slider was released but now I feels more like periodic. I have a 24 MP DSLR, so my files are smaller than yours. I'm running on 4 CPU MacPro with 16 GByte.

Best regards
Erik


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kwalsh
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« Reply #91 on: January 11, 2012, 07:37:29 PM »
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Two questions for Eric Chan if he swings by:

LR3 black slider was I believe a straight across the board RGB clip which meant you could get subtle shadow color shifts when using it.  Is the new LR4 slider the same or a bit more clever about color?

More out of curiosity, is the flat-field correction just built into the engine and completely unused or is it actually being used in some Adobe produced lens profiles - (i.e. could someone with way too much time on their hands dive into the lens profiles and play with the flat fields despite the lack of a UI the same way we can dork around with the transform matrices in camera profiles).

Thanks as always for being so helpful on this forum and others!

Ken
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AFairley
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« Reply #92 on: January 11, 2012, 08:12:13 PM »
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Hi!

I have tried LR4 on one of my difficult images and tone mapping works great!

The image here was achieved by just three clicks. Exposure, Shadows and Highlights.

Best regards
Erik



Having followed the threads where the image was adjusted by using masks, that is a great result (I like it better than the others)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 08:16:07 PM by AFairley » Logged

Schewe
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« Reply #93 on: January 11, 2012, 09:24:57 PM »
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More out of curiosity, is the flat-field correction just built into the engine and completely unused or is it actually being used in some Adobe produced lens profiles - (i.e. could someone with way too much time on their hands dive into the lens profiles and play with the flat fields despite the lack of a UI the same way we can dork around with the transform matrices in camera profiles).

The ability to do LCC is built into the DNG spec using what's called the "op code"...it gets embedded into the DNG and when in LR or ACR, the pipeline includes the correction into the image processing pipeline. Unfortunately, at this time, nobody is actually doing this. Capture One "could" if the adapted the DNG 1.3 spec and included the LCC correction into a DNG output. Alas, they don't.

There is the ability for somebody to build an app that could take a DNG then an LCC correction image and bind them into a DNG file. The ability is there in the DNG spec but somebody would have to write the app to do so.
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Robert Katz
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« Reply #94 on: January 11, 2012, 10:33:56 PM »
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It runs perfectly on my PC: Windows 7, 64 bit, 8GB RAM and 2.27 GHz CPU.
Love the new changes, especially the new Develop Module
Robert Katz
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Robert Katz
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wolfnowl
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« Reply #95 on: January 11, 2012, 11:53:15 PM »
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As I understand it, the Exposure slider is now the primary exposure tool, combining both exposure and brightness.  The Shadow and Highlight sliders replace the recovery and fill light sliders, although they're smoother, more robust than their predecessors.  The black slider and the white slider are for setting black point and white point.

Mike.

Correct...but don't neglect Contrast and Exposure...otherwise you'll be flailing around and not getting optimal results...

The "best" approach is to do a top down adjustment set while understanding that some settings will need additional adjustments.

Mentioned Exposure first! Skipped 'Contrast' because I thought it was self-evident...  Wink

Mike.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 11:58:41 PM by wolfnowl » Logged

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« Reply #96 on: January 11, 2012, 11:55:30 PM »
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If I load up LR4 it uses the .xmp sidecar files to load previous changes.  If I make changes to those files, does that invalidate the .xmp sidecar files for LR3?  Will I see the warning about some other program making changes?  Or does the sidecar file maintain both the 2010 rendering and 2012 rendering separately so LR3 won't have a problem.

Also curious about a timeline for ACR (if anyone can say)   I currently go to PS with smart objects so I can modify my raw conversion in ACR, hoping a compatible ACR is possible about when version 4 is released.

In the LR4 Edit settings you can uncheck 'Auto save changes to .xmp files'.  That means that changes to the files won't write to .xmp until you tell it to.  All of the changes will be stored ONLY in the LR4 catalog. In theory, anyway...  Grin

Mike.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 11:59:13 PM by wolfnowl » Logged

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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #97 on: January 12, 2012, 03:19:42 AM »
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Hi Ernst,

Ian's comment about the print adjustments being stored per printer profile is correct.  (They're not stored per proof copy / photo.)  This is to help users who have very basic Print workflows and don't use print templates.  For example, if you only print to two papers, and you're used to toggling between them manually in the Print Job panel (via the Profile popup, to select the appropriate profile), then Lr's Print module will remember your print adjustment settings on a per-profile basis.  This is because the amount of brightness/contrast boost you may need is dependent on your media.  

Eric,

I foresee color shift threads on mailing lists with the same ICC profile linked to the features proof copy-template-print(er) adjustments. I see some reservations in the reviews of both Michael and Ian on the subject of the adjustment feature. Without the extra issue of its connection to the profile. I understand the logic of that connection and the logic of the print copy-profile connection but I think the last is more important and should not be compromised with the first in practice. Pros will not touch the printer adjustment and rightly so. Amateurs will and may not use the proof copy due to more CM issues on their desktop. The users in between will do both and write about their problems. An opinion of course.

met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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digitaldog
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« Reply #98 on: January 12, 2012, 09:19:18 AM »
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I see some reservations in the reviews of both Michael and Ian on the subject of the adjustment feature.

Don’t even get me started!

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Pros will not touch the printer adjustment and rightly so.

Amen to that. IMHO, the ‘fix’ for this issue should be to adjust the display (which this ‘feature’ doesn’t do) not the data going to the printer which ensures that every other application that prints the same data produces a different and matching result. 
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Andrew Rodney
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TinFoilSkin
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« Reply #99 on: January 12, 2012, 09:38:35 AM »
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Seen a few people commenting LR4 Beta is very slow on Macs. I can run LR3 fairly well on my 5 year old windows Vista laptop, but LR4 makes the fan go mental and is very slow. It is just a Beta though I'm sure it will be further optimised.
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