Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Flash or HTML for photo web gallery site  (Read 16572 times)
mediumcool
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 676



« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2012, 05:10:17 AM »
ReplyReply

A Flash coded site does not have to be bloated  or an awful viewing experience.

Well, bloat and awful often seem to be compulsoryGrin  When I see a percent-loading widget, my heart sinks; unless the site has been very-well built to be small and load quickly, I usually navigate away. It should be remembered that modems are still in use, and that broadband users hitting a data limit (as is my case) can be slowed to 64kbps.

There should be an Interpol alert out for this character Skip Intro (probably an alias) to be arrested and charged for bloat and very poor taste in the ICUE (International Court of User Experience). But seriously, the existence of skip intro shows that a lot of Flash is merely flash, and not meaningful content.  Cheesy



The level of scripting power that Flash ultimately achieved is remarkable, but I believe one of its problems as a run-time environment is that it contains old code for compatibility, and is bulkier and slower than it could be (its hooks into Windows graphic cards make that the only reasonably-performing platform for Flash; my Macs can and do crash even scrolling a page with Flash).

B/G: I taught animation at a tertiary level in the late ’90s and early ’00s, and Flash was just about the only game in town, so I came to know it well. But never love it. And there are many many Flash programmers out there who will have to adapt to change which they will resist strongly.
Logged

FaceBook facebook.com/ian.goss.39   www.mlkshk.com/user/mediumcool
mediumcool
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 676



« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2012, 06:04:21 AM »
ReplyReply

I think that this question is answered by the circunstances themselves: Adobe will not continue to develop Flash in the future. It's more or less like they announced the cease of it.
They will concentrate in the future apps in HTML 5, probably within a Dreamweaver platform.

Adobe has conceded defeat. They have a number of irons that they are and will be pushing into the fire—they are a bit like Microsoft in that they try to offer many solutions in an attempt to cover the market, but are slow to see shifts (look up Adobe operatives slanging Apple for their—now demonstrated to be prescient—stand against Flash on iOS devices).

Therefore, building right now a site in Flash is IMO a "mistake", independently of its pro or cons. The Flash system has reached to an end and would be a closed road, with the bonus to
have to re-do all the site soon or later.

Absolutely right; the appropriate word here is obsolescent, aka falling into disuse. The factory is still there, but there are fewer lights on.

HTML is reaching a good maturity and flexibility, HTML 5 will be integrated into wysiwyg and growing. That's the current way to go.

And AJAX has been around for quite a while.

Included for motion players.

YouTube has been doing this without fuss for some time, seamlessly substituting an HTML5 deliverable if Flash is not sniffed.

But of course, Flash will not die just like that tomorrow, it will (and is) progressive and will probably remains optional and operative where it is already today. Just that devs won't use it anymore.

Some will keep pushing Flash because it’s comforting and financially rewarding; it’s all they know.

From a user point of view, when I view sites built in Flash, I generally give-up earlier. The interface is "nervous", slow quite a lot compared to html. It gives the sensation to be "unstable" and there is always a silly animation somewhere in the menu or the way the images are loaded. The loading bar, symbol of Flash, is now very unfriendly to me.

Flash can be used to make very good interactive games, but the sorts of things photographers need are not exclusively served by Flash.

I'd be cautious with Java, it could easily fall into the same abuse than the early Flash. The less it's used, the better IMO.

Java or JavaScript? JavaScript is an essential part of HTML, including v5, and is vital for interactivity. Microsoft’s JScript and Flash’s ActionScript are supersets of JavaScript. All related. I think Graham’s problems may lie in how he is generating the JavaScript code, but has has yet to reveal what he is using.
Logged

FaceBook facebook.com/ian.goss.39   www.mlkshk.com/user/mediumcool
mediumcool
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 676



« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2012, 06:36:24 AM »
ReplyReply

Very polemical post on Flash vs HTML; Adobe vs Apple.

Somewhat less polemical post, with swearing.

And something light for balance.  Grin
Logged

FaceBook facebook.com/ian.goss.39   www.mlkshk.com/user/mediumcool
fredjeang
Guest
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2012, 07:02:22 AM »
ReplyReply

Yes, I meant Javascript.

The problem I see with JS is that there is a culture that is very close now to Flash: easy abuse of effects.
JS is not of course the problem, but its potential abuse.

I agree on Ajax. It's really a great option. I will probably based my own website in Ajax (but won't do it myself).
I didn't mentionned Ajax because that I know, there are currently no wysiwyg program to generate it and it requires serious knowledge to implement.

As you pointed, Flash is still powerfull for some applications like games, heavy interactive content, but not as a website solution where it's counter-productive.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 07:06:40 AM by fredjeang » Logged
mediumcool
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 676



« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2012, 07:49:24 AM »
ReplyReply

The problem I see with JS is that there is a culture that is very close now to Flash: easy abuse of effects.
JS is not of course the problem, but its potential abuse.

Same set of temptations as Flash: its got all these features, and Im gonna use them all! The notion that Flash/JS/Silverlight etc. are tools, not destinations, is lost in the kerfuffle.

Useful quote: http://daringfireball.net/linked/2011/02/23/dhh-it-dept by Upton Sinclair: “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”

An honest and objective contractor (whether on the web or elsewhere) should recommend an appropriate technology approach that best fulfills a client’s needs.

I agree on Ajax. It's really a great option. I will probably based my own website in Ajax (but won't do it myself).
I didn't mentionned Ajax because that I know, there are currently no wysiwyg program to generate it and it requires serious knowledge to implement.

I am restarting web development, mainly for myself, so have just downloaded Komodo Edit to get to know Ajax functions a little better; it’s cross-platform which is good, but it may be crap on the Mac, which is not so good.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 08:00:50 AM by mediumcool » Logged

FaceBook facebook.com/ian.goss.39   www.mlkshk.com/user/mediumcool
EduPerez
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 693


WWW
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2012, 05:26:19 AM »
ReplyReply

Just my two cents:

When you design (both visually and technically) your site, put yourself in the place of a viewer, and think how does a viewer wants to visit your site; do not make the mistake of thinking how you want viewers to visit your site, because that will make visitors go away [I'm probably on the radical side, but I tend to immediately close any site that: has music, has a long (skip-able or not) flashy intro, resizes my bowser's window, ...].

So, back to the question at hand: what is the intended audience of your site? do they prefer flash sites?
Logged

mediumcool
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 676



« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2012, 05:32:48 AM »
ReplyReply

Just my two cents:

When you design (both visually and technically) your site, put yourself in the place of a viewer, and think how does a viewer wants to visit your site; do not make the mistake of thinking how you want viewers to visit your site, because that will make visitors go away [I'm probably on the radical side, but I tend to immediately close any site that: has music, has a long (skip-able or not) flashy intro, resizes my bowser's window, ...].

So, back to the question at hand: what is the intended audience of your site? do they prefer flash sites?

Big tick.
Logged

FaceBook facebook.com/ian.goss.39   www.mlkshk.com/user/mediumcool
MrSmith
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 887



WWW
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2012, 07:16:02 AM »
ReplyReply

"When I see a percent-loading widget, my heart sinks; unless the site has been very-well built to be small and load quickly, I usually navigate away. It should be remembered that modems are still in use, and that broadband users hitting a data limit (as is my case) can be slowed to 64kbps."

are you an art buyer/art director?  the people that matter usually have superfast fiber/cable and a 24-27in i-mac to view photographers websites on.
Logged
BFoto
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 241



WWW
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2012, 01:46:15 AM »
ReplyReply

Wait for CS6 and you will be able to design what u want in flash and convert with the touch of a button the site into HTML5...no coding required.

http://prodesigntools.com/the-future-of-adobe-flash-and-html5.html
Logged

mediumcool
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 676



« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2012, 02:53:38 AM »
ReplyReply

are you an art buyer/art director? 

Some of the time. What are you?

the people that matter usually have superfast fiber/cable and a 24-27in i-mac to view photographers websites on.

Whatever. And would “… the people that [sic] matter …” be using a computer from 2009Grin
Logged

FaceBook facebook.com/ian.goss.39   www.mlkshk.com/user/mediumcool
Eric Myrvaagnes
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7961



WWW
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2012, 08:20:29 AM »
ReplyReply

When I see a percent-loading widget, my heart sinks; unless the site has been very-well built to be small and load quickly, I usually navigate away.
I'm just a simple amateur photographer with a decent collection of photographs, running a fast fiber optic line to my 2011 vintage Win 7 64-bit machine, which absolutely screams compared to previous machines (32-bit Vista, XP, etc., etc.).

Yet I am in 100% agreement with mediumcool here. If I see a percent-loading widget, or a flash intro, I'll close the tab immediately (unless someone is paying me big bucks to look at their site).

Eric
Logged

-Eric Myrvaagnes

http://myrvaagnes.com  Visit my website. New images each season.
kikashi
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3989



« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2012, 11:54:17 AM »
ReplyReply

When you design (both visually and technically) your site, put yourself in the place of a viewer, and think how does a viewer wants to visit your site; do not make the mistake of thinking how you want viewers to visit your site, because that will make visitors go away [I'm probably on the radical side, but I tend to immediately close any site that: has music, has a long (skip-able or not) flashy intro, resizes my bowser's window, ...].
If you're on the radical side, I'll join you there. I don't close the site immediately, but those things (in particular, music) certainly antagonise me greatly.

Jeremy
Logged
EduPerez
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 693


WWW
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2012, 01:02:31 PM »
ReplyReply

are you an art buyer/art director?  the people that matter usually have superfast fiber/cable and a 24-27in i-mac to view photographers websites on.

And some spare time to spend watching a progress bar, I guess...

Perhaps your intended audience is composed entirely by people with fast connections and fast computers; good for you. But your server may have a bad day now and then, and be a bit slower than expected. Or your art buyer/director may be out of his office, far from his fast connection and fast computer. And the people that matters can have one of these days, and not be in the mood to wait, even if just for a few seconds.

If you are so high in the food chain that you can tell "go f*ck yourself off" to anybody out of your narrow intended audience, then big kudos to you, sincerely; but, do you really need to do that?

Another humble two cents: if you need to put a progress bar, you are probably doing something wrong.
Logged

mediumcool
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 676



« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2012, 04:56:36 PM »
ReplyReply

And some spare time to spend watching a progress bar, I guess...

Perhaps your intended audience is composed entirely by people with fast connections and fast computers; good for you. But your server may have a bad day now and then, and be a bit slower than expected. Or your art buyer/director may be out of his office, far from his fast connection and fast computer. And the people that matters can have one of these days, and not be in the mood to wait, even if just for a few seconds.

If you are so high in the food chain that you can tell "go f*ck yourself off" to anybody out of your narrow intended audience, then big kudos to you, sincerely; but, do you really need to do that?

Another humble two cents: if you need to put a progress bar, you are probably doing something wrong.

All good. Especially the last sentence. Another thought: there is the old saw *word of mouth*; somebody sees your work and tells others. That somebody might not be on a 27" iMac; they might be using a phone or an iPad. Even art directors use phones and tablets …  Grin
Logged

FaceBook facebook.com/ian.goss.39   www.mlkshk.com/user/mediumcool
Martin Ranger
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 144


WWW
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2012, 07:44:47 PM »
ReplyReply

I recently switched from an html site to a flash site (see my message above). One reason was my frustration with cross-browser compatibility and bugs. I am sure one can program it in a way that it works flawlessly on all browsers and has the functionality I wanted, but I could not and did not find a ready-made solution that had everything I wanted. In the end I went with a hybrid design: flash for those platforms that support it, html for others.

So far, I have made two observations. First, the bounce rate on my site has not increased. At least for my visitors the speed at which my flash-based site loads does not seem to be a problem. And I am stressing "for my visitors" here. Others may have a different experience. Second, around 5% of my visitors seem to be using mobile devices.

I am sure that in the future flash is dead, but right now the hybrid approach is working very well for me.
Logged

Martin Ranger
Seattle, WA

www.martinrangerimages.com
Graham Mitchell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2282



WWW
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2012, 05:12:34 AM »
ReplyReply

I think Graham’s problems may lie in how he is generating the JavaScript code, but has has yet to reveal what he is using.

Javascript/Jquery. My developer walked out on the project today, as he can't resolve some of the cross-browser bugs, so I'm back to square one.
Logged

Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
mediumcool
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 676



« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2012, 05:31:33 AM »
ReplyReply

Javascript/Jquery. My developer walked out on the project today, as he can't resolve some of the cross-browser bugs, so I'm back to square one.

Not good! Do you know how he was creating the site and generating the scripting? Oops—missed the reference to Jquery! Any Ajax-y things going on?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 05:34:42 AM by mediumcool » Logged

FaceBook facebook.com/ian.goss.39   www.mlkshk.com/user/mediumcool
mediumcool
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 676



« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2012, 05:36:09 AM »
ReplyReply

And was something like Dreamweaver used?
Logged

FaceBook facebook.com/ian.goss.39   www.mlkshk.com/user/mediumcool
fredjeang
Guest
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2012, 10:26:02 AM »
ReplyReply

My fashion boss is using PHP-HTML-JS and HTML 5 for video (although for the moment there is just one making-of !). It's damn fast, friendly code and they have a control panel for each sections.
They used a pixelpost base they customized.

Graham, please could you be more precise about the code and where you have the issues? if you fancy to or can. (if discretion needed mail here) I could ask to the guy who did my boss website, it's a friend, no prob.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 11:15:52 AM by fredjeang » Logged
mediumcool
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 676



« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2012, 10:23:35 PM »
ReplyReply

Saw this today: MS is definitely signalling that they are moving away from plug-ins.

Whither/wither Silverlight?  Grin
Logged

FaceBook facebook.com/ian.goss.39   www.mlkshk.com/user/mediumcool
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad