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Author Topic: Better HVLP sprayer for canvas  (Read 5868 times)
iCanvas
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« on: January 11, 2012, 07:30:14 AM »
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Hi all,

In August I changed from rolling a coating on canvas to spraying. Some of the members of the forum here advised a Wagner Control Spray Max, which I ordered and worked OK for a while. The nozzle cracked and I replaced it, but the spray has been pulsating. I cleaned and replaced the filters but it is still pulsating. I diluted the coating even further but with no success. This sprayer is all plastic and a little crude. I want to upgrade to a all metal sprayer and have a few questions:

1. Are gravity sprayers better?

2. What is the best metal sprayer for canvas?

3. I have a pneumatic pump for stapling and canvas stretching. Do I just need the sprayer itself or do I need also the turbine that comes with some of these sprayers like the Fuji Q3 system?

4. Do these metal sprayers come with brushes to help with cleanup? I only use water based coatings.

I don't want to spend for than $400 or $500 or less if possible. The Wagner was around $90.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Gar

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Ken
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« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2012, 10:17:49 AM »
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Sorry, I can't answer your questions specifically, but I've been using the Fuji outfit (complete) with no problems for about a year. Easy cleanup and well made.
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John Nollendorfs
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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2012, 11:42:48 AM »
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A place like Harbor Freight has some inexpensive HVLP type sprayguns available fairly inexpensively. If you compressor can deliver the required volume, then yes, I think you could easily use one of those "gravity" fed guns.

FYI, I've been using cheaper Wagner Control Spray unit for two years now with no problem. Other than the nozzle will tend to clog if you spray a lot of stuff, and let it sit around. But that is easy to clean.

I can't see spending that much money on the Fuji, when the spray coating is as forgiving as it is for canvas.

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bill t.
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« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2012, 11:59:11 AM »
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I have used a Q4 Fuji HVLP system almost daily for several years and it still works as good as the day I bought it.  I'm still using all the original parts, except for replaceable seals and quite a few air filters.  It's built to last forever and will probably outlive me.

Would recommend this system, I know somebody who uses it and he likes it.

http://www.amazon.com/Fuji-2903-XPC-Mini-Mite-Spray-System/dp/B002Z7EM4Q/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1326303935&sr=8-8

It's probably worth it to buy a turbine unit.  You can use a regular compressor for HVLP, but you need a surprisingly large one to keep up with an HVLP gun which along with the regulator would cost more than a turbine, and be more trouble.  The little worksite compressors at Home Depot are designed for intermittent nail guns and no way can they keep up with a continuous high demand.

FWIW there are two kinds of feed systems, the gravity feed cup which sits above the nozzle and the larger pressure feed can that sits below the nozzle.  The gravity cups typically only hold about 400ml of solution.  I usually wind up spraying around 320 to 400 ml of solution to coat a 4x8 foot panel stripped up with canvases, so if you're spraying that much canvas at a time you want the underslung can which holds about 900ml.  The cans are also more tolerant of contamination in the paint.
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iCanvas
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« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2012, 03:55:49 PM »
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Bill,

What is the tip size on your Fuji .8mm, 1mm?

Did your Fuji come with different sizes?

Or did you order a specific size that is best for canvas?

Gar

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bill t.
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« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2012, 05:19:56 PM »
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The Fuji's come with the "standard" #4 tip which is just right for most medium thickness paints including canvas coatings.  Mine is gold colored and says "4H" on it.  Don't know what the "H" means but it came with the gun.  Never felt the need for anything finer or coarser.  I'm not sure what diameter that is, it looks quite a bit smaller than the tips on the Wagner guns.  I think the Wagner is optimized for Latex and similar thick paints.

You asked about brushes.  My Fuji came with a single cleaning brush that really wasn't quite up to the job.  The draw tube readily clogs with paint if all I do is try to clean the gun by spraying hot water through it.  You can very adequately clean the gun turning it upside down under a hot water faucet, opening the needle all the way and filling the upside-down draw tube with hot water.  Then turn it over and drain it about 3 or 4 times until you no longer see paint in the water.  Then push the large air input port up against the faucet and let hot water flow for about 30 seconds or so.  And brush any paint off the nozzle with a not-too-hard brush.

But just spraying hot water through the gun will gradually lead to a clogged draw tube and kind of rolled-up paint-skin "pearls" stuck just behind the nozzle.  Once in a while you need to undo the nut that holds the draw tube and brush the tube vigorously from both ends.  If you have paint stuck in there from too many inadequate cleaning attempts it may take a wire brush to do the job.  I keep this kit around for that.  The tiniest brush in the kit is also useful for cleaning the inside port of the nozzle.

http://www.amazon.com/Pro-SPRAY-CLEANING-KIT-HVLP-Gravity-Detail-Airbrush/dp/B001MSWX3G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1326322841&sr=8-3

The Fuji really is a nice machine, no question.  I do a lot of coating and found it difficult to get really consistent results from the Wagners.  The Wagner would always do an OK job, but I had trouble getting the same amount of paint flow from session to session.  Above all else the Fuji has given me near perfect consistency.  I can dial out the needle 1.75 turns and it will always give me exactly the same paint flow over the same period of time.  I spray to an 84 count metronome beat, and 1 foot per click and 4 inches advance between passes always gives me EXACTLY the same result, with no surprises.  Also the Fuji filters are big and far away from the paint overspray, but the tiny Wagner filters are right there in the haze and they need a lot of cleaning attention to get consistent results.





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iCanvas
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« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2012, 06:06:05 PM »
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Thanks so much for the valuable info.

These forums can save one so much time and money by taking the experience of others.
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bill t.
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« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2012, 10:56:55 PM »
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My impression is that you need an air source with at least about 6 or more cubic feet per minute to run a medium-tipped "conversion" HVLP gun continuously.  That's towards the high end of compressors that can run off household current and those types of units are pretty large.  One big advantage of turbine air sources is that they are very compact for the amount of air they deliver.  Conversion guns are ordinary HVLP guns with air regulators attached to run off an ordinary compressor. 

The Fuji is definitely a premium unit, and there are certainly cheaper alternatives.  If you spray a lot get a Fuji or similar quality unit.  If you just do an occasional canvas get a Wagner or a low-end conversion HVLP gun to run off a compressor you already have.  You can also spray many very thin coats which doesn't need as much air flow.  Since I spray a lot of canvas I want a unit that can give me a nice heavy, super-even, single coat application, and the Fuji does that oh so well.  It's a fully professional, time efficient tool.

The Fuji XPC gun itself costs $299.  So for the low end Fuji kit you are paying about $250 for the turbine.  That's probably a little cheaper than an adequate ordinary air compressor.
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Luca Ragogna
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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2012, 10:48:16 AM »
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I have this gun - http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/8160657/Hvlp/HVLP-Paint-Gun and this compressor - http://www.dewalt.com/tools/compressors-wheeled-portable---electric-d55168.aspx and it works great.  I can fill the gun with varnish and spray continuously until it's empty (although I've never had to) and I get a nice even spray. The compressor kicks in after a bit but it keeps up with the sprayer. If you've already got a compressor that's close to that I'd go buy the gun for $70 and give it a go. If it doesn't work, return it.
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iCanvas
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« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2012, 04:28:14 PM »
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Is your spray gun a bleed or non bleed gun?
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Luca Ragogna
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« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2012, 04:36:35 PM »
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I'm sure that I should know what that means but I don't. I just grabbed that gun because I like gravity feed guns and that one was on sale and came with the regulator.  Grin

I was just posting my setup to illustrate that a cheapo gun with a not overly huge compressor can work great.
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rmyers
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« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2012, 07:53:58 PM »
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Anyone used the Graco Spray Station 2900 or 3900?  My local Depot and Lowe's do not carry the Wagner Control Spray or Max.

http://www.spray-station.com/HV3900.html
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kdphotography
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« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2012, 08:11:01 PM »
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Anyone used the Graco Spray Station 2900 or 3900?  My local Depot and Lowe's do not carry the Wagner Control Spray or Max.

http://www.spray-station.com/HV3900.html


Try, http://www.gleempaint.com/wagner-control-spray-plus.html

Replacement parts and filters available there as well.

ken
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iCanvas
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« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2012, 08:34:34 PM »
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I have this gun - http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/8160657/Hvlp/HVLP-Paint-Gun and this compressor - http://www.dewalt.com/tools/compressors-wheeled-portable---electric-d55168.aspx and it works great.  I can fill the gun with varnish and spray continuously until it's empty (although I've never had to) and I get a nice even spray. The compressor kicks in after a bit but it keeps up with the sprayer. If you've already got a compressor that's close to that I'd go buy the gun for $70 and give it a go. If it doesn't work, return it.

Luca,

A non bleed means, I think, that air does not come out of the nozzle until you press the trigger. A bleed is like the Wagner Control Spray Max and that is pushing air out of the nozzle continuously even when you don't pull the trigger. So, which one do you have?
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Luca Ragogna
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« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2012, 10:31:20 AM »
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Ah! Non-bleeder. I don't like the compressor to run constantly.
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davidh202
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« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2012, 09:02:41 PM »
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Read the Lowes customer reviews on the Graco 3900 and decide for yourself!
The only saving grace when you buy from Lowes or Home Depot, is if it doesn't work to your satisfaction you can return it no questions asked!
The key to using most of these sprayers is "proper dilution" if your working with pretty viscous materials. Most of the coatings say not to dilute more than 20%.
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rmyers
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« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2012, 09:48:01 PM »
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Bought it today.  Didn't think about online reviews from Lowes.  Thought the same thing you said about Lowe's taking it back with no hassle.  Hoping to spray canvas tomorrow.  Will report.
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iCanvas
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« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2012, 07:23:52 AM »
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The Graco and the Wagner are mostly plastic. The Fuji is all metal and meant to last a life time. My Wagner started acting up after six months. The nozzle cracked and the motor started pulsating. I replaced the nozzle, but the spray still pulsates. I think I am going to go with the Fuji mini mite 3. I have been printing and coating canvases for 8 years and plan to continue for a long time. Thanks Bill T for your input.

Gar
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2012, 08:11:45 AM »
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Have stayed away from this thread as I feel the the equipment I use is not really needed to spray canvas,and did not want to muddy the water.
If you really do alot of spraying and want a rig with no plastic that will last a lifetime Binks/DeVilbiss has it.
I have used Binks HVLP setups in my cabinetry business since they came out.
Cannot beat the quality of these guns and the output is second to none.The gravity cup HVLP gun is used for all water based products.
The SG2 pressure pots and Mach One guns are my solvent setups.
Notice the inline filters on the Mach One guns. The replaceable stainless steel mesh filters keeps out any and all sediment.
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iCanvas
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« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2012, 12:40:35 PM »
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Dan,

I have a 1 hp, 1 gallon Senco air compressor. Would this work with the red gravity fed gun that is depicted in your post?


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