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Author Topic: 4K stills while filming full HD Samsung compact camera for 400 $  (Read 4526 times)
fredjeang
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« on: January 18, 2012, 06:33:46 AM »
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http://www.eoshd.com/content/6817/samsung-in-cmos-break-through-pulls-4k-video-off-sensor-in-400-compact-camera
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 10:50:51 AM by fredjeang » Logged
BJL
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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2012, 05:19:45 PM »
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Where does Samsung say that this 16MP sensor reads and outputs video at 4K resolution? No other site repeats the claim made at EOSHD, and lots of cameras match this one in having still resolution of "4K" or higher, and producing 1080p30 video, but usually they do video by only reading some lines, and maybe only some pixels in each line, rather than reading all the pixels and then downsampling off the sensor.

The illustration talking about "4000x3000 - 30fps" makes me suspicious, since that is the wrong shape for video and the wrong pixel count for 16 MP stills. Is EOSHD a reliable site?
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rainer_v
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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2012, 01:45:54 AM »
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i think they are if its going about small cams and video esp.
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rainer viertlböck
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fredjeang
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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2012, 02:36:23 AM »
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Yes, normally EOSHD is reliable about small equipment-dslr. There are generally polemic but in the good way, questioning a lot of aspects of this industry, rightly IMO.

The GH2 is a 4:3 sensor but multiformats and would output 4:3 or 16:9 videos. Same with Arri wich is a multi aspect ratio camera etc...
This sensor is a 4:3 wich is correct for multi AR output.

I think that this link shows where all that goes. In a short time period, will have a compactcam to put in our pocket that will output truly usable 1080 for editing with very little or nothing to envy to what we got now in our dslrs. So we'd have a powerfull HD notebook if I might say.

I'm sure the tech of real 3-4K is already there since quite some time. Canon, Panasonic have the full potential to do an "Epic killer" for 3.000 euros or less. But they don't because they have a pro market to protect. If Panasonic release tomorrow a GH3 with 3 or 4K with high bitrate, it will be the end of their video pro market.

Even if they wouldn't feature raw video, they would sell them like pancakes because the quality will be higher and we could crop. It seems that Raw video is Red "exclusive" (Arriraw is too expensive).

But if microcams are pushing and pushing, they (Canon, Pana, Sony etc...) will be probably obliged to do so and we will all benefit.

 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 02:47:28 AM by fredjeang » Logged
BJL
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2012, 07:55:02 AM »
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This sensor is a 4:3 wich is correct for multi AR output.
You missed my point:
- the sensor is not 4000x3000, which would only be 12MP.
- the video output of the camera is 1080p or 720p HD formats, both in 16:9 shape, so the video does not come from a 4000x3000 crop from the sensor either; it comes from a 16:9 crop.

So that graphic is nonsense.

Until you or EOSHD gives a source for this claim that the sensor outputs 4K video (8MP per frame, 240MP per second) for subsequent down-sizing, I have to assume that the writers at EOSHD are either ignorant about how consumer digital still cameras actually produce their video output, or are ignoring what they know in order to produce a more attention-getting headline.

No other article I have found about that camera says anything about the sensor delivering 4K video output.
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fredjeang
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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2012, 08:45:00 AM »
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...this claim that the sensor outputs 4K video (8MP per frame, 240MP per second) for subsequent down-sizing,

No other article I have found about that camera says anything about the sensor delivering 4K video output.

Hey, a respectable and experienced professional, wich knowledge I trust for many good reasons, sent me this link, and from there I opened a thread because it's an interesting topic IMO.

Didn't have the time to verify this article and get more infos because I'm stuck with tons of work at the moment. It could indeed be that they did a mistake in EOSHD.

If it reveals that the EOSHD article was uncorrect, then it's all fine and this thread would have been worth just for that.  Let's wait and see for more infos before drawing conclusions.

If I made a mistake opening this thread because the article related was wrong, it's fine, no problem with it, we all make some. The important thing is that in the end we will get the confirm or infirm in a way or another.

 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 09:52:21 AM by fredjeang » Logged
BJL
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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2012, 08:59:21 AM »
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Fred,

    that's fine; that's the way the web works: we have to look over a lot of material of highly variable quality, and then filter out the facts and worthwhile stuff from the dross, sometimes with the help of discussions in forums like this one.
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fredjeang
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2012, 09:07:08 AM »
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That's the way I see the things. Lu-La generally end to be a very reliable source because of that. People are questionning facts, debate them in a matured way.

Let's see this Samsung, it might be truly interesting or not. We need to know more.

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fredjeang
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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2012, 10:48:04 AM »
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Ok, I had a break to investigate a bit.

The content of the article in EOSHD is absolutly correct if readed carefully. You have the answer in the Samsung executive interview that's linked and saw a couple of clarifications in some spanish sites too. What leads to confusion is the EOSHD article title.

This camera is interesting and at the same time not. Interesting because it's a glimpse of what's to come (the guy's article also says that), and not, because it's just a glimpse.

So what it does is this:

- the camera processes a 4K  (12MP) image 30 times per second.
- It writes on the sd card a donwsampled 1080 footage (from this? mystery)
- whenever you click while filming, the camera would write a 12MP still image too without interupting the filming.

In other words, you can film HD and do 12MP stills works at the same time. No dslr features that, that I know, and I doubt any compact today. If I'm wrong please correct me.

This is a unique feature indeed  being able to film and do a truth still work at the same time, imagine that in a 5D2, that truly can be usefull but it's obviously not 4K video, and the original from what is donwsampled to full HD remains a "secret"  to date. (the Samsung executive doesn't want to reveal too much on that matter)

So I have to rewrite my post title. There was indeed a semantic confusion.

At the same time, it is interesting to note that such a compact "toy" is able to process 4K at 30/sec, and the question that asks the guy's article seems to me appropriate.

Back to work. Bye.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 01:07:45 PM by fredjeang » Logged
BJL
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« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2012, 08:57:29 PM »
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Fred,
The new subject line gets the unambiguous part of the story. From the interview at http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/01/15/samsung-interview-how-do-cameras-fit-in-a-connected-world it sounds as if the camera can pull out _a_ full resolution still frame in the middle of outputting HD video, but not necessarily that it is doing that for every video frame, maybe only when you push the button for a still. It would be nice to have more details; after all, Jay Kelbley of Samsung is from marketing, not engineering. (That name seems familiar ... <googles> ... yes, he used to be marketing head for Kodak DSLRs.)
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fredjeang
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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2012, 01:13:33 AM »
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Fred,
The new subject line gets the unambiguous part of the story. From the interview at http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/01/15/samsung-interview-how-do-cameras-fit-in-a-connected-world it sounds as if the camera can pull out _a_ full resolution still frame in the middle of outputting HD video, but not necessarily that it is doing that for every video frame, maybe only when you push the button for a still. It would be nice to have more details; after all, Jay Kelbley of Samsung is from marketing, not engineering. (That name seems familiar ... <googles> ... yes, he used to be marketing head for Kodak DSLRs.)

That's what it does according to the little material available today.

As the camera processes everyframe, but do not record them on card at 4k until you press the shutter, it's always ready to take stills at any time while records on card 1080.

But as you point, we need to have more details.
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