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Author Topic: Re: Camera to Print & Screen - Soft Proof in LR4  (Read 7075 times)
digitaldog
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« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2012, 06:09:10 PM »
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Andrew- EXACTLY my point in belaboring the question- At the time of selecting soft proofing, to my way of thinking, since the whole attempt is to see how your edited photo will appear in print (web?) the virtual copy should be compared to the edited photo, NOT the image as ingested without edits.

The VC does, the Master doesn’t if I have this all straight. That makes the ability to soft proof and apply edits to the Master (if you want to use Before and After at least) a real headache.

I have to wonder why we are even allowed to edit the master this way.

Here is another behavior I think is either buggy or just poorly thought out. It also involves History:

1. Invoke Soft Proof (S key).
2. Make an Edit (dialog pops, you say you want to use Master).
3. Make more edits or maybe not. Click in History to step prior to the soft proof (I used Import). Result is, you are back to square one. Good.
4. Type S key and load profile, alter slider. Result: No dialog asking if you want to edit the Master or VC. Expected result: Dialog pops (I went back in History).

I really think that History and Soft Proofing have significant disconnects that shouldn’t be.

Eric? Jeff?
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2012, 06:26:30 PM »
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Oh man, this really is screwed up...

Do this.

Take an image in Develop that has never been worked on. If you want, type Y (both before and after look the same).
Make some edits. As you’d expect, there is an update between the two.
Type S key. Now make an edit. You get the dialog asking for VC or Master. Doesn’t matter what you select.
Now type Command/Control Z to undo the edit.
Now close soft proof (S key), reopen again. Even pick a different profile.
Make an Edit. You are not asked if you want to apply this to a Master or VC. It is as if the dialog will only appear once and that’s it.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2012, 06:30:29 PM »
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I have to wonder why we are even allowed to edit the master this way.

Eric? Jeff?

Among other things regarding SP, but that's a good reason for these discussions during the BETA stage, No?
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David
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« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2012, 09:22:57 PM »
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Still a wee confused but I think I’m closer to seeing what you are after. At least by the use of the Option Click History step part. I’d think you would want to compare your soft proofing adjustments to the photo as it was originally edited prior to the initial soft proof editing. I think the fundamental disconnect here is what we end up with and see asking for Before. As you state, when you ask for this, you get the image as it appeared from import, you lose any subsequent edits you applied up to this point prior going into Soft Proof right? That is a problem. And a Snapshot doesn’t appear to help us here.


Sigh, it looks like I somehow didn't hit "Post" to my answer to this a few hours ago. 

We are on the same page.

"Before" has to be the end of working your master, before you start making output specific adjustments.  And also we are in agreement that it is much better to make output specific adjustments on  the proof copy, not the original. In my post I  was just providing viewing comparison options for both scenarios. 

To make clear, in the (less optimal) case of making output edits to the master, here is what I mean to get Before and After to work as needed:

Photo  example:
1. Import (History step 1), adjust highlights (H2), add saturation (H3).  Looks fabulous = "Master".
2. Turn on soft proofing and set profile. Loses contrast, so I want to add some.
3. Increase contrast (=H4). Dialog pops up, I select "Make this a proof." 
4. Turn on Before/After (Y)
5. In History, right-click on H3, and copy history settings to before. 

Now Before is the "Master", and I can adjust "After" to try to match it.
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kevk
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« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2012, 01:33:40 AM »
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Just hypothesizing about LR/PS workflow considering the LR4 soft proofing...

In the past (Pre-LR4):
Import raw file into LR3; do as much editing as possible in LR3; export as TIF or PSD to Photoshop; add secret sauce; season to taste; perform soft-proofing for a selected printer profile & try to make the image look good again; back to LR3 to print the now-looking-good-again PSD/TIF.
Never do any LR3 adjustments on the PSD/TIF - if the image needs further adjustment (eg to print to a different printer) open the PSD/TIF in Photoshop and add another layer set to do the new soft proofing fixes for the image; back to LR3 to print to the new printer.

Is it NOW valid to do this?:
Import raw file into LR4; do as much editing as possible in LR4; export as TIF or PSD to Photoshop; add secret sauce; season to taste; back to LR4 for soft-proofing the PSD/TIF, making a VC for a selected printer profile & try to make the image look good again; LR4 for printing.
If I need to print the image to a different printer, just use LR4 to make another VC of the unchanged PSD/TIF for any changes soft proof needed.

So rather than ending up with a single TIF/PSD with a number of different layer sets (one for each soft-proofed printer) - I now end up with a number of VCs for the PSD/TIF (one VC for each soft-proofed printer).

Sounds OK to me. Am I missing something?

Kevin



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jljonathan
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« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2012, 07:43:04 PM »
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Photo  example:
1. Import (History step 1), adjust highlights (H2), add saturation (H3).  Looks fabulous = "Master".
2. Turn on soft proofing and set profile. Loses contrast, so I want to add some.
3. Increase contrast (=H4). Dialog pops up, I select "Make this a proof." 
4. Turn on Before/After (Y)
5. In History, right-click on H3, and copy history settings to before. 

Now Before is the "Master", and I can adjust "After" to try to match it.

I just tried the above without #5. After making the contrast adjustment and checking to make a vc proof, the master (before) is intact without the contrast move. Only the vc after has it. Are you trying the sp edit the master? Why?
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Nigel Johnson
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« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2012, 08:28:47 AM »
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Great! ....and how can I test it?


Roth,

If you mean how can you get LR4 Beta, see this page on the Lightroom Journal for relevant links and information about the beta:

http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2012/01/lr4betanowavailable.html

Regards,
Nigel
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