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Author Topic: LuLa LR 4 Video Tutorial  (Read 19012 times)
Schewe
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« on: January 25, 2012, 07:45:49 PM »
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Once again Mike, Chris and I will be working on the upcoming Lightroom 4 video tutorials...so since we received (and incorporated) useful feedback from the LuLa community, I though I would post the same question about what people would want to see in the new video...

Obviously, we'll be covering some of the same stuff again–no way around that. And we'll be covering the new features as well. But it would still be useful to find out what other people may think needs to be covered and why.

The other thing is that as it stands, we're planning on a serial release not unlike the C2PS since from the time we shoot till when Chris can get it all edited can't happen overnight. Aside from the years end discount and the servers barfing I though things worked out pretty well (from what I could see). But I think there is still room for improvement.

So, assuming you've seen previous version of our LR tuts, what else would you like to see and learn?
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jrsforums
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« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2012, 08:05:17 PM »
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Jeff...

Having watched the LR 3 videos, I, personally, would like the focus...and the release schedule...to be aimed primarily at the changes, new functions, and areas that need insight different from what was covered in the LR 3 videos.

John
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Schewe
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« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2012, 08:36:11 PM »
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Having watched the LR 3 videos, I, personally, would like the focus...and the release schedule...to be aimed primarily at the changes, new functions, and areas that need insight different from what was covered in the LR 3 videos.

Useful feedback, thanks. I think Chris is expecting to do something along the line of flagging content that is "New for LR4". For some things like Soft proofing, that's easy. For other things, it's not so obvious.

For example, in the past we covered Collections, but now with LR4 and the saved creations, Collection have been elevated in importance. So, we'll prolly cover collections in greater depth now because of the elevated importance. This is a case where you may think you know what you need to know but there may indeed be new perspective and techniques...

It's always a tossup...we have to shoot and edit the video as though we're talking to somebody new to LR while trying to get existing users up to speed with the new stuff while making it easier to figure out what and where the new stuff is. Any suggestions on how to figure that out is welcome...
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natas
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« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2012, 09:05:26 PM »
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Obviously soft proofing  is a big one.

Another good idea I think would be a short segment on optimizing lightroom for best performance. I shoot with a pentax 645d and found loading between images to be slow with a 2011 Mac pro 6 core with 24gigs of ram. I now have lightroom set to generate large image previews and that helps alot. But maybe go through optimizing your catalog, cache sizes, mutiple cpu support, ram usage, exporting to take advantage of multiple cpu's, ssd's

Another big one for me would be printing. Most of my printing is done with Imageprint, but I like the idea of using lightroom. Maybe go through printing on rolls, laying out multiple pictures to print, cut marks, etc. I personally have not messed with printing much in lightroom other than the occasional test prints.
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Stephen L Starkman
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« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2012, 09:08:50 PM »
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Hi Jeff,

I think what would be most welcome would be to organize the content in more digestible separate "modules". I have both the Lr3 tut and C2P2S and frankly, I can't find the time to work through it all (not a bad thing to complain about, really!).
 
For example, off the top of my head:
- Intro/Overview - what's new - demo sample wf's for different output destinations (print, web, book etc.)
- Library & Develop
- Soft Proof & Print
- Slide show & Web
- Books
- Video
- Map

Offer each module individually for purchase, so, for example I may start with Library/Develop and purchase Books or Video at a later date. Offer a bundle discounted price for the entire set.

Ok, that wasn't so much new features (well, not at all!) but my 2 cents on improving the product.

What I'd be most interested in seeing are the perspectives and techniques you mentioned in your last post - putting things together that I may not be otherwise aware that lead to those "aha!" moments. For example (and I have no idea just now if this is possible), can you use geo-tags (location data) in watermarks? Is this data available in Books?. I've just started working with Lr4 beta so I don't have specific areas yet that aren't likely obvious (such as PV2012, soft proof, etc.).

Stephen


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Rand47
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« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2012, 10:28:51 PM »
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Jeff, thanks!

Obviously real attention to the basic adjustments in the develop module.  Just when your tutorial on 3 had me really understanding it, I'm now back to square 1 w/ 4b.  I've appreciated your explanation in the forum here, but a robust tutorial w/ examples "live" in the video is something I'm really anxious to have.  If it can be "sooner rather than later" in the shooting and release, so much the better. I'm probably not alone (at least I hope not :-). )

Soft proofing is another area where there may be many folk like me who to date have not availed ourselves of this valuable tool due to the mystery of it in PS, and our primary use of LR for printing. All of this to say it would be good if the tutorial assumes pretty much complete ignorance of the subject rather than familiarity with it in PS.

Thanks again. I really appreciate what you and Michael contribute to my understanding, and how the two of you equal more than the sum of your knowledge through the good humor and "iron striking iron" give and take.

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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2012, 10:37:03 PM »
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Hi Jeff,

One thing I'd like to see is a comparison of the sliders between LR3 and LR4; how best to make the transition when one has some habits that work well in LR3. For example, how do I best simulate in LR4 the effect of the Fill Light slider from LR3? And the same for the other sliders that are different in the Develop module.

I'm really looking forward to the new videos.

Eric

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jaapb
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« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2012, 10:59:32 PM »
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Hi Jeff,

Great to have a new video coming.
Obviously important is the new implementation of develop as are the new modules. It would be interesting to see how to do sharpening and color management for blurb books.
As for soft proofing you showed different techniques, along the necessary curve tweaks, in both camera to print (screen) tutorials. In the first video you showed a useful black punch method to achieve dead black shadows, in the last one there was the 50% gray sculpting/color adjustment layer. It would be interesting to see how these adjustments translate to LR4 soft proofing.
On an entertainment note, add up all the stripes of Mike's shirts contest  Grin and a few outtakes at the end.
Looking forward to the video and good luck to Chris putting it all toghether.

Jaap
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Robert-Peter Westphal
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« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2012, 11:54:58 PM »
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Hi Michael, hi Jeff,

spoken for me, what I would like to see are workflow examples which in my case means showing everything from scratch ( import to print / export). Give us such a few of them with different photos and e plain why you did the changes.

Despite of this, the workflow on journeys with a 'traveling' laptop and aMac / PC at home could be important to many of us.

Many thanks for asking and good luck !

Robert
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dwnelson
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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2012, 12:49:06 AM »
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Hi Jeff,

As a LuLa and Lightroom newbie, I'd love to have a more comprehensive overview of the software, assuming very little knowledge. I am currently an Aperture 3 user with plans to convert to Lightroom 4, and to apply all of the wonderful things I've been learning in C2P&S and Where the ?@#$ are My Pictures?

I understand you may not be able to cover everything, and if you must skip something basic that was already covered in your LR3 videos, could you at least bundle the LR3 and LR4 videos together, or offer a substantial discount to the LR3 set when the LR4 is purchased?

Finally, I'd like to pass on some gratitude for everything I've learned from you and Michael in C2P&S. For the last 18 years I've been a photographer, for the last 11 years I've been shooting digital, and only now am I learning about color management, printing and all the other forms of output. This has opened a new and exciting chapter in my photography!

Dan
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Schewe
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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2012, 12:49:11 AM »
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Offer each module individually for purchase, so, for example I may start with Library/Develop and purchase Books or Video at a later date. Offer a bundle discounted price for the entire set.

Interesting...but above my pay grade...

To a certain degree, breaking down the segments to bitable segments becomes an exercise in, well, futility...

It's really Chris' ability to edit things down to "chunks" that determines what ends up as sections...but I honestly think that it's LR's overall ability to provide an optimal workflow that's critical to grasp...I'm not sure a module by module is the solution...

I understand that previous user's of LR don't want to wade through a lot of previous version's usability. While I think we can work towards an efficiency  LR4's functionality, inevitability, there's gonna be a degree of "start from scratch" tutorial...

An example of this is the fact that Mike didn't like PV 2012 much until I explained that A) the order wasn't gonna change and B) the order of the Basic panel did actually suggest the best way of adjusting an image...

Ya gotta remember that at the end, it's Thomas Knoll that decides the ultimate order of the image adjustments...and TK knows a bit about raw image processing.
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JanneAavasalo
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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2012, 01:52:24 AM »
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Hey Jeff,

Now that the soft proofing cat is out of the bag, I think it deserves a real drill-down.

I'd like to see multiple different kind of images maybe from different cameras to be proofed for print. Images that work with perceptual and images that work with relative colorimetric.

And yes, I'd also like to see the "new features" to come out first.

Janne
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luxborealis
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« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2012, 07:19:29 AM »
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First of all, thanks Jeff for opening up the dialogue about the upcoming videos.

Obviously there are many of us with images we are quite happy with from LR3 so there seems to be the need for help with the transition of those images from LR3 to LR4. One could leave them as "Process 2010", but I would imagine many would like to explore the options available with "Process 2012" and LR4 adjustments. The problem is time: we have "finished" images from LR3 and to start from scratch in re-processing images going forward with LR4 could be very time-consuming. I think that's why some posters like Eric and myself are looking for some guidance on making that transition in an efficient way. If you have any tricks (practically or conceptually) up your short colourful sleeves, they would be welcome.

Would you, Michael and Chris consider offering a bi-level release of videos: one full set for newbies to LR with LR4 and one "focus-set" for those of us neck-deep in LR3 and making the transition to LR4? I realize that it's easier said than done with how integrated image management and processing is through all the modules. No doubt you will have vids on the major changes: Collections/Saved Creations, Develop Adjustments, Books, Maps, Soft Proofing, etc.but I'd rather not sit through hours of video about all the other stuff carried forward from LR3 for just a few kernels of changes in LR4 and how best to adopt them into our workflows.

Lastly, I would like to see an exploration (drill down) of the differences in using Basic adjustments and Tone Curve adjustments. This is a question I often get as the two appear similar enough yet have differences. Mostly, it is Photoshoppers making the transition to LR that want to jump to the more familiar Tone Curve adjustments before working through Basic adjustments. Why should they not jump to TC first? Is there anything "wrong" with that workflow in that there may be nuances they are missing in Basic? I know there are, and try to explain the differences, but it may be a common enough question/problem/issue that it could be addressed in the vids.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 10:53:56 AM by luxborealis » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2012, 10:41:56 AM »
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Obviously there are many of us with images we are quite happy with from LR3 so there seems to be the need for help with the transition of those image from LR3 to LR4. Once could leave them as "Process 2010", but I would imagine many would like to explore the options available with "Process 2012" and LR4 adjustments. The problem is time: we have "finished" images from LR3 and to start from scratch in re-processing images going forward with LR4 could be very time-consuming. I think that's why some posters like Eric and myself are looking for some guidance on making that transition in an efficient way. If you have any tricks (practically or conceptually) up your short colourful sleeves, they would be welcome.

+1 for this.  I'm not too concerned about redundancy in the presentation or going over stuff that I already know how to do because I can always hit the fast forward button.  I think it will be really difficult for the LuLa production crew (Michael, Jeff, & Chris) to come up with a pick and choose module approach and get it done in a timely manner for those of us waiting for the tutorial.
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michael
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« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2012, 11:03:59 AM »
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Chris has arrived in San Miguel and we're starting to set up. Jeff arrives Saturday, and we begin production on Sunday. We have a seven day shooting schedule.

We're going to take everyone's input into account, but the amount of material we have to cover is huge, and this will mean a major editing job for Chris over the coming months. (The shoot has four live cameras and two screen captures, so effectively it's a six camera shoot, with three audio capture channels as well.) Compared to the simple screen captures that most other folks do for tutorials it's a huge undertaking.

In the end though the massive support that you guys give us makes it all worthwhile.

Michael
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Chris Kern
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« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2012, 02:05:55 PM »
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One of the most valuable features of both the LR3 and C2PS tutorials was the non-obvious tricks you offered -- things I doubt I ever would have figured out myself, such as making an image punchier in LR3 by cranking up the blacks to the point of clipping and then opening up the shadows with the fill light adjustment.  Problem is, by the end of each series, I'd forgotten some of the details, and some of the tricks altogether, because of the bit rot that afflicts my aging brain.  And searching for a specific, half-remembered, one-minute chuck of video, even if you can make a good guess about which segment it came in, is non-trivial.  So how about an extra segment at the end of the series summarizing the cleverest gimmicks you've described in the previous episodes.  Wouldn't even have to be fresh video: just clips with a little narration to provide context.

Chris
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rdegaris
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« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2012, 02:28:29 PM »
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Hi Michael, Jeff, Chris

All the thought and sheer effort you guys have put into your tutorials over the years has been invaluable.  I certainly wouldn't mind going over material previously covered - IMHO it's not a waste of the modest sum you charge and I can always find something new that I'd either missed or forgotten... or press the fast forward button as someone suggested.

If I understood Jeff's idea correctly, I like that there should be a strong holistic element throughout the treatment of the various components.  Perhaps some sort of operational framework that explains why we would (should?) do 'things' in a particular manner - perhaps including Thomas Knoll's thinking/rationale as part of the explanation.

Also, if there's any aspect of C2PS that you feel was incomplete, or that you'd do differently if you had the chance, then maybe it could provide an interesting overlay/context to using LR4.
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Schewe
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« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2012, 02:44:55 PM »
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Also, if there's any aspect of C2PS that you feel was incomplete, or that you'd do differently if you had the chance, then maybe it could provide an interesting overlay/context to using LR4.

I don't think there was anything incomplete in C2PS other than the fact we specifically didn't do any drill down in Lightroom that didn't have a direct impact ultimately on printing and output–and while we knew soft proofing was coming to LR4, we of course could not say anything about it :~)

The only main difference in my printing workflow now with LR4 is that I don't have to go into Photoshop to soft proof. However, I still have to go into Photoshop for the functionality that only Photoshop can offer. Substantial retouching, compositing, accurate selections and things like sculpting are examples of functionality that LR4 still can't do.
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2012, 04:13:02 PM »
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2 video package options would be really nice.
A complete Lightroom 4 video covering everything.
And as mentioned above a "Whats new in Lightroom 4"
The latter may intice many of your past customers that already have the first video set. (Like myself)
The "whats new" set would be shorter in time/content which means quicker to market.Then integrate those "whats new"videos where they belong in the complete set.
It's not about the money,really. It's more about time and if I want to trudge through another 35 video purchase to watch 5.
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CynthiaM
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« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2012, 04:26:34 PM »
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I have been using Lightroom since the version 1 beta release.  My experience with the LR4 beta is more troublesome than any other version in figuring out a workflow as I find that I am struggling to get to a point where I can comfortably edit an image so that it is similar if not better than what I can get in LR3.  I have no doubt it can be done and that I am missing something so this is what I would like to see in the LR4 tutorial.  For example, as a prior post mentioned, the LR 3 tutorial stepped viewers through adjusting the blacks to a point just beyond clipping and then using fill to create a richness in the shadows.  I am having trouble figuring out how to get to that point or better in the LR4 beta.  And also with soft-proofing, it would be marvelous for those of us who have followed the LuLa tutorials on soft-proofing in Photoshop and practice the technique to see/learn how this would be achieved in the LR4 soft-proof.

I have shared many cups of coffee with Mike and Jeff while sitting with my laptop at the kitchen table and look forward to sharing more in the next round of tutorials.  Your tutorials are second to none.
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