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Author Topic: LuLa LR 4 Video Tutorial  (Read 19357 times)
Ralph Eisenberg
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« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2012, 12:24:13 AM »
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2 video package options would be really nice.
A complete Lightroom 4 video covering everything.
And as mentioned above a "Whats new in Lightroom 4"
The latter may intice many of your past customers that already have the first video set. (Like myself)
The "whats new" set would be shorter in time/content which means quicker to market.Then integrate those "whats new"videos where they belong in the complete set.
It's not about the money,really. It's more about time and if I want to trudge through another 35 video purchase to watch 5.


Although I have the previous Lightroom tutorials, I wouldn't mind familiarizing myself with what is new as well as having the pleasure of a refresher walk through of the program's basic functionalities. Good luck
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« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2012, 01:40:29 AM »
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My experience with the LR4 beta is more troublesome than any other version in figuring out a workflow as I find that I am struggling to get to a point where I can comfortably edit an image so that it is similar if not better than what I can get in LR3.

So...the biggest problem you are probably having is trying to take PV 2010 experience and knowledge and trying to apply that to PV 2012. That's the disconnect...the new controls are different...REALLY different. So, you would be better off taking to PV 2012 controls as a whole new thing...look carefully at the order from top to bottom...there's a reason why they are in the order they are in. It's because Thomas Knoll thought the current order is the optimal order.

Many users have not learned how to use Contrast after Exposure but that is the best way to work. Once you get the base level tone adjustment (using Exposure and Contrast) then Highlights and Shadows to control the 3/4 and 1/4 tones. Finally, if needed (generally not needed) Whites and Blacks. And...if push comes to shove you can always pop over to the Curves control with either Parametric or Point Curve editors...

Look, Mike was somewhat in the same camp as you (and many users) until he gave up the expectations that PV 2012 was somehow related to PV 2010. They aren't...

All of the PV 2012 Basic controls are image adaptive which means that the numbers you use are adjusted based on your image. That can be useful but it can also be disconcerting till to adapt to the new behaviors.

We'll cover that in depth in the new vids...
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Photo Op
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« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2012, 06:52:39 AM »
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Jeff- Steve Jobs knew what I needed before I did. I'm comfortable with you and Michael going with your instincts regarding LR4. Seeing that the LR update curve is usually @ 18 months, maybe you guys could leave some open segments at the end of the production and then revisit segments that YOU think need a little more explanation based on viewer comments after the video is released. That way you two could spend a day having a little more wine, wear a few more shirts (in your case) and have the benefit of hindsight. Just thinking.
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« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2012, 09:04:08 AM »
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So...the biggest problem you are probably having is trying to take PV 2010 experience and knowledge and trying to apply that to PV 2012. That's the disconnect...the new controls are different...REALLY different. So, you would be better off taking to PV 2012 controls as a whole new thing...look carefully at the order from top to bottom...there's a reason why they are in the order they are in. It's because Thomas Knoll thought the current order is the optimal order.

Many users have not learned how to use Contrast after Exposure but that is the best way to work. Once you get the base level tone adjustment (using Exposure and Contrast) then Highlights and Shadows to control the 3/4 and 1/4 tones. Finally, if needed (generally not needed) Whites and Blacks. And...if push comes to shove you can always pop over to the Curves control with either Parametric or Point Curve editors...

Look, Mike was somewhat in the same camp as you (and many users) until he gave up the expectations that PV 2012 was somehow related to PV 2010. They aren't...

All of the PV 2012 Basic controls are image adaptive which means that the numbers you use are adjusted based on your image. That can be useful but it can also be disconcerting till to adapt to the new behaviors.

We'll cover that in depth in the new vids...
Thanks, Jeff. That's exactly where I am and why I look forward to you and Michael "holding my hand" as I get the hang of PV 2012.
I'm trying starting from scratch (raw) with copies of a few images that I liked the results in LR3, where I seldom touched the Contrast slider. I mumble to myself as I go, "Jeff says top to bottom, Jeff says top to bottom,..."

With luck, by the time I see the vidoes, I'll have gotten comfortable with the new order (hard for an old dog like me, but nothing like the pain of converting from film to digital).

Eric
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David Good
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« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2012, 10:17:39 AM »
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Many users have not learned how to use Contrast after Exposure but that is the best way to work. Once you get the base level tone adjustment (using Exposure and Contrast) then Highlights and Shadows to control the 3/4 and 1/4 tones. Finally, if needed (generally not needed) Whites and Blacks. And...if push comes to shove you can always pop over to the Curves control with either Parametric or Point Curve editors...

All of the PV 2012 Basic controls are image adaptive which means that the numbers you use are adjusted based on your image. That can be useful but it can also be disconcerting till to adapt to the new behaviors.

Excellent explanation Jeff (of course), Develop tone control in a nut-shell, thanks.

Of course videos explaining the new features are a must, but a biggie for me would be Soft-proofing, particularly how it can be used to it's fullest benefit once the full release is out and how to handle OOG areas.

Dave
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Ch-Jaeger
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« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2012, 10:28:54 AM »
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I'd really like to see how far you can go with the brush tool in terms of creative sharpening and the technique you call sculpting in the c2ps videos.

Aside from that what would be really cool was a bonus material section with a few bloopers, funny mistakes and such that happened during the recording.  Grin Grin

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Christoph
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John Cothron
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« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2012, 06:59:39 PM »
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Hello Jeff,

I've used lightroom since version 1, and until I purchased the Lula guide to version 3 I had never watched a tutorial.  I did purchase Martin Evening's book on Lightroom 2 although by the time I did most of the information I had learned first hand.  I EXPECTED that to be much the same with the Lula tutorial.  I primarily bought it because I found watching the camera to print and screen you guys did to be pretty informative and also entertaing.  Having said that.. I did pick up a few things about Lightroom that I didn't realize before.

As such.. I'd love to see all the time you can muster and or it requires regarding shortcuts and factoids not widely known about lightroom.  This could be as simple as shortcuts or as involved as the mechanics behind its different functions.  For instance I didn't know, and know of no way I could have known.. that localized adjustments actually pick up what you set in the detail panel (i.e. sharpening).  I've never read or heard that anywhere other than the lula 3 tutorial.  Knowing things like that really come in useful.
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« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2012, 08:42:05 PM »
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As such.. I'd love to see all the time you can muster and or it requires regarding shortcuts and factoids not widely known about lightroom.

Thanks for the feedback...in exchange I've give you a freebie...As you know, clicking Auto goes through all of the Basic tone adjustments and sets them. But, did you know that you can Shift/Double Click On the adjustment name to auto set just that one control? That gives you the ability to cherry pick which controls you want to set by Auto. Oh, and everybody know double clicking on the name sets it back to default...and yes, it'll be in the video.

:~)
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gerryrobinson
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« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2012, 10:26:11 AM »
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Would love to see a " industrial  strength " drill down on what you consider to be the best practices from starting a catalog to final export. As well as any useful nuggets of information that you would like to share.
Have very much enjoyed your past vids!
Really looking forward to this one.
Gerry
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« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2012, 04:29:53 AM »
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Like many others, I would appreciate  a detailed drilling down into the use of the basic, tone curve and HSL/color/Bw modules, based on examples. I am teaching myself to follow your and TK's advice to take the adjustments in order, but finding some resistance, as I tend to see something that needs fixing in an image and want to go directly to the relevant controls. To help me resist this temptation (something I generally don't do well) I would value an account of the rationale for the order as TK explains it. Also is it important to be meticulous in following the order - eg, I find myself wanting to go Highlights Whites Blacks Shadows rather than the set order and need to be told why this is a bad idea if indeed it is. I would also appreciate your covering how to go back to earlier controls in the order, as I often find I want to do - eg sometimes readjusting the white balance or exposure after doing everything else - is this a bad idea?
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digitaldog
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« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2012, 11:40:16 AM »
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Of course videos explaining the new features are a must, but a biggie for me would be Soft-proofing, particularly how it can be used to it's fullest benefit once the full release is out and how to handle OOG areas.

That’s easy, let the profile control this. The OOG overlays are kind of useful educationally, it is useful to see what colors you might be visually trying to edit that are outside the display gamut (once the bugs are fixed). But the idea of manually screwing with OOG overlay to make it disappear isn’t effective as far as my testing shows. It wasn’t effective in Photoshop either. There is a video on my site that illustrates the differences in doing this manually instead of just letting a profile handle this process.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2012, 01:48:44 PM »
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Although not dealing with LR4 new features, I'd like to see a segment devoted to scanned film (B&W-Color) files and what LR can bring to the table.  Actually, you all could probably get together again for another new tutorial on archiving and processing film files.  I'm sure I'm not the only one out there with scores of neglected negatives.

Really appreciate all you guys do!
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BobD
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« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2012, 08:08:05 AM »
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So...the biggest problem you are probably having is trying to take PV 2010 experience and knowledge and trying to apply that to PV 2012. That's the disconnect...

All of the PV 2012 Basic controls are image adaptive which means that the numbers you use are adjusted based on your image. That can be useful but it can also be disconcerting till to adapt to the new behaviors.

We'll cover that in depth in the new vids...


An in-depth look at the new “Process Version 2012 Workflow” and a discussion about the adaptive controls.

Top-Down:
You and Adobe both advocate working the Basic “Tone” sliders from top to bottom - this gets you to the “Blacks” slider last.

If you start with “Exposure” then “Contrast”, when do you find the black point? [The old bromide - “Minimum exposure for maximum black” keeps ringing in my ears.] If you adjust your “Blacks” slider later in the adjustments, it will change the “Black Point” and therefore the overall contrast. You will then need to readdress the “Contrast” slider - correct?

My LR workflow has been to first click “Auto” (letting LR find the Black and White points) then adjust the other sliders.  In LR4, I click “Auto”, then have to manually set “Black Point”** then adjust the others sliders from Top-Down.  What do you think of this workflow for PV2012?
**I am aware of the “Known Issue” of LR4 beta that “The Auto Tone algorithm is still a work in progress. In some instances, Auto Tone in PV2010 will produce better results than Auto Tone in PV2012”.  Currently, when I click “Auto”, only the “Exposure” slider is affected. Have you found this? I need to find my “Black point” manually with the “Blacks” slider while holding the  “Alt” key. (I assume this will be fixed in the final version.)

Histogram Areas Affected by sliders:
I’ve noticed that some sliders of PV2012 affect the same areas on the Histogram as the PV2010 sliders. (I have posted some screen grabs of the 6 sliders on my blog. If you want to take a look - Click here http://bobd.tv/?p=192)  I am aware that LR4 has adaptive Highlight and Shadows controls so affecting those areas of the Histogram could produce different results depending on the image.  However, are the “Whites” vs. “Recovery”  and the “Blacks” sliders comparable in LR4 & LR3?
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BobD
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« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2012, 08:15:52 AM »
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It's really Chris' ability to edit things down to "chunks" that determines what ends up as sections...but I honestly think that it's LR's overall ability to provide an optimal workflow that's critical to grasp...I'm not sure a module by module is the solution...

Formatting of the Videos:
As far as how to address the topics and “drill-down” of the video "chunks", your (Chris’) approach of using copious “chapters” in your LR3 movies along with the supplied Table of Contents worked just fine. (although a few videos were void of any chapters!) 

Maybe a more robust TOC that contains all the chapters included in each video is all that is needed. This would allow us to select the desired video, choose the video "chunk of choice", then use the movie’s “pull-down” list of “chapters” to jump to that specific content. (If you do this you might consider that a short video of "how to navigate" the videos tutorials may be helpful)

Enjoy the process!
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Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2012, 06:15:58 PM »
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Formatting of the Videos:
Maybe a more robust TOC that contains all the chapters included in each video is all that is needed. This would allow us to select the desired video, choose the video "chunk of choice", then use the movie’s “pull-down” list of “chapters” to jump to that specific content.

Unless I misunderstand you, the LR3 Table of Contents does already exactly what you describe - you do have to scroll down past the first two pages... Smiley

I should add that suggestions on the ToC are most welcome
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Christopher Sanderson
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« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2012, 07:02:47 PM »
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Unless I misunderstand you, the LR3 Table of Contents does already exactly what you describe - you do have to scroll down past the first two pages... Smiley

I should add that suggestions on the ToC are most welcome

Chris, I told you it was a good idea Roll Eyes !!!
I was aware of the TOC and used it extensively.  BTW, thanks for your comprehensive work. 

I mentioned it because it seemed by the comments people were making that they where unaware of the TOC tool.  That is why I mentioned a short video or including the navigation in the intro video would be helpful.  I know several people personally that were unaware of its existence.

Will look forward to the new LR4 series.
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2012, 08:17:25 PM »
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Yes, the TOC's for the videos are pure gold!

Eric
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« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2012, 08:00:00 AM »
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I mentioned it because it seemed by the comments people were making that they where unaware of the TOC tool.  That is why I mentioned a short video or including the navigation in the intro video would be helpful.  I know several people personally that were unaware of its existence.

Yes, a short video to reinforce the Read Me is a good idea. I'll do that. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Christopher Sanderson
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« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2012, 08:40:26 AM »
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In addition to the basics I would like to see in depth methods of sharpening and noise reduction. I do not have the LR3 videos, but I will most likely buy the LR4 version and sharpening is something I want to do better, I have read Jeff's book but would really like to see some good tips and workflow for using the sharpening tools. Especially for the different phases of sharpening.

Alan
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Alan Smallbone
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« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2012, 09:01:23 AM »
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So...the biggest problem you are probably having is trying to take PV 2010 experience and knowledge and trying to apply that to PV 2012. That's the disconnect...the new controls are different...REALLY different. So, you would be better off taking to PV 2012 controls as a whole new thing...look carefully at the order from top to bottom...there's a reason why they are in the order they are in. It's because Thomas Knoll thought the current order is the optimal order.

Many users have not learned how to use Contrast after Exposure but that is the best way to work. Once you get the base level tone adjustment (using Exposure and Contrast) then Highlights and Shadows to control the 3/4 and 1/4 tones. Finally, if needed (generally not needed) Whites and Blacks. And...if push comes to shove you can always pop over to the Curves control with either Parametric or Point Curve editors...
I realized very quickly that this is a horse of a different color.  From what I can remember ( and I am not so sure about the order of things) the changes from LR1 to LR2 were additive; you had the same sliders and then some new ones with added functionality.  Same thing in going from LR2 to LR3 and some where along the way they added the local adjustments.  LR4 will take some getting used to and your pointers are much appreciated[/quote]

Quote
Look, Mike was somewhat in the same camp as you (and many users) until he gave up the expectations that PV 2012 was somehow related to PV 2010. They aren't...
At least I am in good company

Thanks for the quoted suggestions above re: workflow.  I will give it a try. Interestingly, I notice by accident that using the auto button rendered a very nice starting point.  I never used the auto button in the basic develop panel in the past.  Left me wandering if they did something to these algorithms to make auto adjustments more effective.

Enjoy the subtropical heat of Mexico.  I look forward to the videos.
Regards,

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Cynthia Merzer
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