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Author Topic: Epson 7900 from the inside - out  (Read 355597 times)
Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #1140 on: January 14, 2013, 07:40:41 AM »
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The reverse flow approach has a lot of merit I think.  A couple of thoughts here, I think the big issue is how to make sure that the clogged material doesn't reclog the print head.  If it's a case of some kind of particulate forming on the print head, the cleaning solution would need to break it up (dissolve is not a really good term to use here).  The power cleaning that the printer employs is probably a combination of pressure and heat (the print head does get warm as the nozzles fire) which tries to break the clog up and push it through.  The fatal clogs are probably particles that are just too big.  If one is drawing cleaner back through the head one would want a gentle solution so that there is minimal chance of head damage.  Simple soaking may not be good enough (and I think this has already been tried) as a lodged particle won't go anywhere.  I think the solution components that I posted back in post 1125 will be gentle enough on the print head and that maybe a pre-soak prior to the reverse draw of the cleaner might also be a good idea (say 30-60 minutes to make sure that the outer part of the head is acclimated to the cleaning solution.

Another interesting point is past experience with Windex (FORMULA) which has a touch of ammonia in the mixture.  The base detergent in Windex is sodium lauryl sulfate and the ammonia is probably there to buffer the solution and make it slightly basic.  I don't know whether the pH of this solution is important or not and whether it has an effect on the clog.  Certainly my proposed formula is much stronger than Windex in terms of the composition.

As an aside here, I did some work on a highly potent detergent-like molecule from bee venom for my PhD work.  I don't advocate using mellitin in these solutions however due to it's cost (and Sigma Aldrich probably won't sell it to anyone on this list unless they are a certified lab researcher as Eric has already found out).  My thesis adviser's research group had done a lot of research on various long chained detergent like molecules and maybe some of these might be options as well.  I'll have to think about this some more.

Alan
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KristiSheriff
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« Reply #1141 on: January 14, 2013, 09:06:49 AM »
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You are obviously outside of warranty new or extended..how old is the printer...heavily used ?
My printer is 4 years old.  I purchased it in December 2008. Started using it in February 2009. I run about 3 rolls of 100 ft canvas through it a year.  That's it.  So Sad!


In terms of inks used i wonder have you been getting through as much llk and green as your other inks...?
Nope.  Green is the least used for sure.  Not really sure about llk.  I use a ton of that one on my 4880 so you would think I would use a ton of that on the 9900 too because I print similar stuff. 

1 do you do b/w as much as color...llk is there for lowering bronzing in b/w prints as you know..
No, I print mostly color. 


2 would you use green much either....i gather its more for graphics people than photographers...but i have no idea myself.which side of the fence are you on ...?
I don't have much use for green it seems.

3 if you had problems with 2 colors in the same pair a guess would be the air seal itself but not so in this case.
I don't really know what the cause is.  I have had someone come out and clean it and I changed the wiper blade and nothing.  I cleaned it in the power cleaning mode when you turn it on in service mode if that makes sense.  I did that so much that a brand new 350 ml thing of green ink is now 50% full.


4 have you ever vibrated your green or llk carts in any way
Not regularly, no.  I just shook my inks when installing them slightly.

My own little theory is that the Piezo channels and nozzles are bombarded by underused pigment from above and recyled resins from below beyond the capacity of the Nano Nozzles to deal with over time...I would be very keen to see Epsons next design model to replace the x900 series. 

I think you are right.  I think this is a design flaw for sure.  There is no reason other than that that this printer should have done this.  I am a very light user at most. 

Anyone want a steal on a ton of ink, lol?

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Alto
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« Reply #1142 on: January 14, 2013, 11:08:56 AM »
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Hi All

As Epson are so good at making nozzles many in their next series of printers they could have a separate set to spray cleaner at the print head as it or before it docks or when the wiper blade cycles.

Just a thought it could be 2 channel and spray the red and then neutralise it with clear.?


Jon

btw epson you heard it hear first
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 04:12:13 PM by Alto » Logged
Luca Ragogna
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« Reply #1143 on: January 14, 2013, 03:40:52 PM »
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Ok, so here's where I am with my 9890.

I had a clog in the Y channel, with about 30% of the nozzles clogged. Tried cleaning, power cleaning, SS cleaning and nothing changed.

Called Scott at American Inkjet Systems (who has been very helpful) and got some of his cleaning fluids. Tried spraying the capping station per Scott's suggestion with CPL 007+, no changes. Then Scott suggested soaking a paper towel in CPL 007 and parking the head over it for at least 5 hours. This, I feel was a mistake. The head sucked up some fluid and I think it broke some of the clogs free which when I did a cleaning proceeded to ram themselves into a bunch of new previously unclogged nozzles. I now have 8 clear nozzles on my Y channel. Every other colour is perfect.

Scott is sending me some cleaning carts but I think the odds of anything happening with this clog is slim to none. If I were to try and fix this again I would first run the cleaning carts and then try the paper towel trick hoping that whatever clogs are dislodged from the nozzles would be broken down by the cleaning fluid the head is loaded with. As is stands, I don't think there's enough free nozzles to ever be able to clear the head and lines of the ink and fill the head with cleaner.
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Higgy
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« Reply #1144 on: January 14, 2013, 04:43:22 PM »
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I guess all this depends on if the individual ever so tiny nozzles are actually clogging or they are failing. I think it would be awesome if you could have maintanance cartridges filled with a water based solution that is filled with microbes that feed off the ink and pigment stuck in the head and you let the microbes do the unclogging. Then say after 48 hours or so you put the regular ink taks back in and flush the hear with a initial fill and your good to go. All this will omly work if the nozzles still working as they should and you can get microbes or nano bots to do the tiny work. Just sayin
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #1145 on: January 14, 2013, 04:47:02 PM »
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I guess all this depends on if the individual ever so tiny nozzles are actually clogging or they are failing. I think it would be awesome if you could have maintanance cartridges filled with a water based solution that is filled with microbes that feed off the ink and pigment stuck in the head and you let the microbes do the unclogging. Then say after 48 hours or so you put the regular ink taks back in and flush the hear with a initial fill and your good to go. All this will omly work if the nozzles still working as they should and you can get microbes or nano bots to do the tiny work. Just sayin
I doubt that the polymers Epson use are biodegradable by microorganisms.  Besides it would take a lot longer than you think for this to do any good even if it were true and then you would also have to worry about a biofilm forming on the inside of the print head that would lead to further problems.  Most of the cleaning approaches are antimicrobial in nature to prevent this from happening.  Nice thought though.
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #1146 on: January 14, 2013, 04:49:33 PM »
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Called Scott at American Inkjet Systems (who has been very helpful) and got some of his cleaning fluids. Tried spraying the capping station per Scott's suggestion with CPL 007+, no changes. Then Scott suggested soaking a paper towel in CPL 007 and parking the head over it for at least 5 hours. This, I feel was a mistake. The head sucked up some fluid and I think it broke some of the clogs free which when I did a cleaning proceeded to ram themselves into a bunch of new previously unclogged nozzles. I now have 8 clear nozzles on my Y channel. Every other colour is perfect.

Scott is sending me some cleaning carts but I think the odds of anything happening with this clog is slim to none. If I were to try and fix this again I would first run the cleaning carts and then try the paper towel trick hoping that whatever clogs are dislodged from the nozzles would be broken down by the cleaning fluid the head is loaded with. As is stands, I don't think there's enough free nozzles to ever be able to clear the head and lines of the ink and fill the head with cleaner.

I don't know what they use in their cleaning solution but it points to the basic problem of having and ink clog of some sort inside the print head.  If you cannot break up the clog then what happens is exactly what you observed, the clog gets displaced only to reappear somewhere else.  I think what we are all trying to figure out is how to break the clogs up into tiny enough particles so that they come through the print head without doing damage.
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Blue moon
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« Reply #1147 on: January 14, 2013, 06:39:34 PM »
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You are obviously outside of warranty new or extended..how old is the printer...heavily used ?
My printer is 4 years old.  I purchased it in December 2008. Started using it in February 2009. I run about 3 rolls of 100 ft canvas through it a year.  That's it.  So Sad!


In terms of inks used i wonder have you been getting through as much llk and green as your other inks...?
Nope.  Green is the least used for sure.  Not really sure about llk.  I use a ton of that one on my 4880 so you would think I would use a ton of that on the 9900 too because I print similar stuff. 

1 do you do b/w as much as color...llk is there for lowering bronzing in b/w prints as you know..
No, I print mostly color. 


2 would you use green much either....i gather its more for graphics people than photographers...but i have no idea myself.which side of the fence are you on ...?
I don't have much use for green it seems.

3 if you had problems with 2 colors in the same pair a guess would be the air seal itself but not so in this case.
I don't really know what the cause is.  I have had someone come out and clean it and I changed the wiper blade and nothing.  I cleaned it in the power cleaning mode when you turn it on in service mode if that makes sense.  I did that so much that a brand new 350 ml thing of green ink is now 50% full.


4 have you ever vibrated your green or llk carts in any way
Not regularly, no.  I just shook my inks when installing them slightly.

My own little theory is that the Piezo channels and nozzles are bombarded by underused pigment from above and recyled resins from below beyond the capacity of the Nano Nozzles to deal with over time...I would be very keen to see Epsons next design model to replace the x900 series. 

I think you are right.  I think this is a design flaw for sure.  There is no reason other than that that this printer should have done this.  I am a very light user at most. 

Anyone want a steal on a ton of ink, lol?


Kristi,
I am genuinly sorry to see the fix you find yourself in !
What strikes me from your latest post is the amount of extra investment that is at risk when your machine becomes unusable.......$1200  ink ,imageprint licence ..( i think i paid the bones of $2000 for my licence ).plus all the extra ink ,tanks ,that you are forced to use/lose in a vain effort to unblock a bad clog.....not nice....
What also hits me hard is if you dont do b/w and strong green prints why are you letting them (llk and green inks cartridges) lie idle in your printer with no outlet for them except down the spit tank in an effort to keep llk and green nozzles moist...with 8 channels instead of 10 ,your ink costs are down 20% straightaway...and your regular clean routine would be better able to look after the nozzles that are used all the time..
I am definitely learning from your experience and will try to remember your situation when i buy again !  SO...
My next printer demand list will be as follows...
1 is this printer ok if not used say...1 week....4 weeks etc. what volume of printing has this machine been tested for to establish min/max production levels for consumers ?..what written independent evidence do you have (manufacturer) to substantiate your claim..is this printer rated for durabilty like say fridges are for energy efficiency
2 Is there a review site where i can readily see the experiences to date for this printer from existing consumers...why not ?
3 is there a software package (windows/mac )available to activate the printer for "away " periods...that exceed your recommended levels of dormancy....
4 are my ink requirements properly matched to this printer...are there unnecessary ink options with this printer..
   If so ...why so..was i asked what my ink requirements are ? Were ink recommendations offered to me ?
5 is there an ink agitation program built in
6. Can i easily maintain the park station wiper blade dampers myself and what are the costs to me for these parts.

7 in the event that a nozzle permanently blocks ....can this printer fall back to replacing a blocked nozzle with a spare standby built-in nozzle unit....
8 most importantly, is the nano nozzle technology being serviced by an unwashed and unmodified wiper blade system ...or has the nano technology been (modified )downgraded to match existing hygiene standards ?
9 is there a reputable tried and tested clog busting solution available for purchase ...what is the MSDS for this solution and what is the cost of it..what written evidence is there that this solution is reliable
Kristi...
Have you any demands that you would add to my list or would you extract some of my priorities ?
Epson please copy...
Matt






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Blue moon
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« Reply #1148 on: January 14, 2013, 07:11:18 PM »
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Ok, so here's where I am with my 9890.

I had a clog in the Y channel, with about 30% of the nozzles clogged. Tried cleaning, power cleaning, SS cleaning and nothing changed.

Called Scott at American Inkjet Systems (who has been very helpful) and got some of his cleaning fluids. Tried spraying the capping station per Scott's suggestion with CPL 007+, no changes. Then Scott suggested soaking a paper towel in CPL 007 and parking the head over it for at least 5 hours. This, I feel was a mistake. The head sucked up some fluid and I think it broke some of the clogs free which when I did a cleaning proceeded to ram themselves into a bunch of new previously unclogged nozzles. I now have 8 clear nozzles on my Y channel. Every other colour is perfect.

Scott is sending me some cleaning carts but I think the odds of anything happening with this clog is slim to none. If I were to try and fix this again I would first run the cleaning carts and then try the paper towel trick hoping that whatever clogs are dislodged from the nozzles would be broken down by the cleaning fluid the head is loaded with. As is stands, I don't think there's enough free nozzles to ever be able to clear the head and lines of the ink and fill the head with cleaner.

Will you let us know how you get on with the cleaning carts.......hopefully its good news.....
Matt
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #1149 on: January 14, 2013, 07:20:10 PM »
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<<My next printer demand list will be as follows...
1 is this printer ok if not used say...1 week....4 weeks etc. what volume of printing has this machine been tested for to establish min/max production levels for consumers ?..what written independent evidence do you have (manufacturer) to substantiate your claim..is this printer rated for durabilty like say fridges are for energy efficiency
2 Is there a review site where i can readily see the experiences to date for this printer from existing consumers...why not ?
3 is there a software package (windows/mac )available to activate the printer for "away " periods...that exceed your recommended levels of dormancy....
4 are my ink requirements properly matched to this printer...are there unnecessary ink options with this printer..
   If so ...why so..was i asked what my ink requirements are ? Were ink recommendations offered to me ?
5 is there an ink agitation program built in
6. Can i easily maintain the park station wiper blade dampers myself and what are the costs to me for these parts.

7 in the event that a nozzle permanently blocks ....can this printer fall back to replacing a blocked nozzle with a spare standby built-in nozzle unit....
8 most importantly, is the nano nozzle technology being serviced by an unwashed and unmodified wiper blade system ...or has the nano technology been (modified )downgraded to match existing hygiene standards ?
9 is there a reputable tried and tested clog busting solution available for purchase ...what is the MSDS for this solution and what is the cost of it..what written evidence is there that this solution is reliable
>>

Matt,

I think your list is basically a good one, though I don't understand #8. I believe the emphasis on throughput is very important because I too think there are grounds to attest that there hasn't been enough advance disclosure in this area, and from everything one reads including personal experience there are whole categories of printers for which it will be a primary performance issue given the characteristics of the technologies involved. A few comments on some of the others:

For #2, it means you won't be an early adopter, because I think one needs months of time to pass and evidence to accumulate before getting a reliable fix on the clogging issue. For example, I reviewed the 4900 on this site when it first came out - the objective was to get an early evaluation published primarily about machine usability and print quality, knowing full well there are certain usage issues that simply can't be reviewed because not enough time has passed.

For #4, the only dormant ink most users would experience is one of the two Blacka. If one is always using papers that require the same vintage of black, it doesn't really matter what happens to the other black or its channel - if you don't use it. One of these days when I want to punish myself I should try firing up Matte Black to see what happens, because I don't print on matte papers any longer. The other inks all get used, not evenly, but all used. So whether this is a real issue, I'm not sure.

For #5, one needs to distinguish between deal-breakers and "nice to have" features. I think the primary issue of throughput falls into the former category, but container agitation the latter, because when the machine is off we can simply remove each cartridge, shake it around a bit and put it back. Regular usage of the printer probably makes this unnecessary (I've not done it through 5 Epson professional printers in 13 years), but for really irregular usage I would think it prudent to do so before each printing session. Who knows, perhaps stuff settles.

Re #7, as things stand, you would not be looking at an Epson printer - you would be buying one of the Canon IPF models, because their heads do exactly that. I wonder whether Epson could build such redundancy into its head technology - one of these things they must have thought of because the competition does it, but again only they can answer to.

Re #9, I think for people experiencing really stubborn clogs this is an important point, and I don't understand why it takes 3rd party developers to market these solutions while the manufacturers don't. It seems that from much of what one reads, the most effective and permanent cleaning requires running solution right through the head. This means substituting a cleaning cartridge for an ink cartridge, pumping it through the channels, re-substituting the ink for the cleaning cartridge, and then recharging the channel so the lines are full of ink. I think it would be a bit challenging for manufacturers to design a user-friendly approach to running such cycles, but I for one would encourage it - despite the steps involved, has to be a lot cheaper and a lot less trouble than head replacement.

Regards,

Mark
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Sal Baker
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« Reply #1150 on: January 14, 2013, 08:32:14 PM »
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Canon does seem to be paying attention to the dissatisfied, and vocal Epson users.  The wide format ipf machines automatically agitate the ink tanks periodically, have nozel redundancy as mentioned above, provide user replaceable $400 print heads (with head calibration built in), and actually let the user into the "black box" of their version of ABW (tone adjustments and soft proofing).  No doubt Epson will have to react to competition with future models.

Sal
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #1151 on: January 14, 2013, 09:19:06 PM »
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Canon does seem to be paying attention to the dissatisfied, and vocal Epson users.  The wide format ipf machines automatically agitate the ink tanks periodically, have nozel redundancy as mentioned above, provide user replaceable $400 print heads (with head calibration built in), and actually let the user into the "black box" of their version of ABW (tone adjustments and soft proofing).  No doubt Epson will have to react to competition with future models.

Sal

Sal, the interesting thing is that there's been six years plus to "react to competition". Canon has had these features I believe since the IPF 5000, such that if Epson were intending to emulate them, one would have thought that by now they could have. I think it's a matter of a different "technology path", which Epson is very persistent in pursuing incrementally. Time and the market will tell whether it works for them or not. So far it seems to.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #1152 on: January 14, 2013, 09:53:12 PM »
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Will you let us know how you get on with the cleaning carts.......hopefully its good news.....
Matt

In the very begining of this thread, Eric made us very aware that his effort to clear his "clogs" with cleaning solution and carts were a waste of money and effort. I'm afraid this is going to be the same outcome,as it has been with everyone else that has made the effort.There are many outfits taking advantage of people, selling them all kinds of  'remedies' when they really know it is futile once the real damage has been done! Cleaning carts and fluids were designed to flush a good system for storage,for changing over from OEM ink to a  private supplier, or going from solvent to Pigment or visa versa, in the machines that allow for this.They can also possibly be used for preventative measures They are not designed for clearing clogs once they are that serious!                        
I have come to a conclusion that once anyone has done 'repeated' cleanings in succession,in an effort to clear a stubborn clog, (especially power cleans) they have already placed the head in fatal jeopardy! The clog is no longer the sole reason for death of the head.
The statement that just about all the people  complaining about unclearable clogs have made, is "repeated cleanings, followed by power cleans,and tons of ink down the drain in the process of doing so" ...
This appears to me to be the common denominator to dead head syndrom!
Once this has been done it's good bye head. Epson warns against it in the manual, and says that  "damage to the head will occur"
David
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #1153 on: January 14, 2013, 10:04:41 PM »
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I have come to a conclusion that once anyone has done 'repeated' cleanings in succession,in an effort to clear a stubborn clog, (especially power cleans) they have already placed the head in fatal jeopardy! The clog is no longer the sole reason for death of the head.
The statement that just about all the people  complaining about unclearable clogs have made, is "repeated cleanings, followed by power cleans,and tons of ink down the drain in the process of doing so" ...
This appears to me to be the common denominator to dead head syndrom!
Once this has been done it's good bye head. Epson warns against it in the manual, and says that  "damage to the head will occur"
David

I believe you are correct.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #1154 on: January 14, 2013, 10:10:31 PM »
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From Mark...

For #4, the only dormant ink most users would experience is one of the two Blacka. If one is always using papers that require the same vintage of black, it doesn't really matter what happens to the other black or its channel - if you don't use it. One of these days when I want to punish myself I should try firing up Matte Black to see what happens, because I don't print on matte papers any longer. The other inks all get used, not evenly, but all used. So whether this is a real issue, I'm not sure.

Sorry Mark...i am a bit confused as i do not have a 900....put it to you like this ....i decide to have a 10 channel 900 but for the moment i do not wish to MK (or green or whatever) or LLK ......can the machine fire on the colors i want for the moment or must i load all the slots with full ink carts.....are you compelled to fully load even though you have no use right now for the full color range..hypothetical.....it would be more economical to select your own immediate color preferences ...say run on 7 or whatever ...why load a color that you don't need to load....and if you load must that colour be managed like all your regularly used colours...trying to think economical...

For #5, one needs to distinguish between deal-breakers and "nice to have" features. I think the primary issue of throughput falls into the former category, but container agitation the latter, because when the machine is off we can simply remove each cartridge, shake it around a bit and put it back. Regular usage of the printer probably makes this unnecessary (I've not done it through 5 Epson professional printers in 13 years), but for really irregular usage I would think it prudent to do so before each printing session. Who knows, perhaps stuff settles.

Mark...
I have been doing very encouraging printer vibration tests for months now..3 shakes a day...could not remove carts that often...would burn out the chips.....prefer leaving carts in as i had to dismantle two machines to replace cart chip sensors....ouch...
Yes...stuff settles....we have several references to pig settle on this thread already....remember the emulsifiers that are needed to keep all the bits flowing and mixing freely.....what Guinness do with their canned stout is to put a small plastic ball bearing in their cans.....marvellous for  agitation...the natural instinct of ink particles is not to mix but to separate ...ask yourself what that means ....



Re #9, I think for people experiencing really stubborn clogs this is an important point, and I don't understand why it takes 3rd party developers to market these solutions while the manufacturers don't. It seems that from much of what one reads, the most effective and permanent cleaning requires running solution right through the head. This means substituting a cleaning cartridge for an ink cartridge, pumping it through the channels, re-substituting the ink for the cleaning cartridge, and then recharging the channel so the lines are full of ink. I think it would be a bit challenging for manufacturers to design a user-friendly approach to running such cycles, but I for one would encourage it - despite the steps involved, has to be a lot cheaper and a lot less trouble than head replacement.

Mark
Believe Epson had a 9th channel 20 years ago that was just a flexible but targeted clean channel....this clean channel could be exclusively focussed on the clogged colour ( i was told ).....they have done it already it appears.....

I have all the gear  for building cart no 9 with just clean solution...the idea is to have a separate cart and pipe with its own damper ....plug out the blocked cart and damper and plug in your cart ,line and damper direct into the head ...no ink waste....Eric got their first with his syringe attack into the head which is where i am now...he is very hard to keep up to !



Mark
#8
I see a conflict between the super sensitivity of the 900 nozzle system and a wiper blade mechanism that is unable to permanently remove the threat of residual resins from being injected back into the head...we all know too that a malfunctioning wiper blade can be an indirect cause for air  bubbles working backwards into the head through puddling on the head surface itself
Good night
Matt
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« Reply #1155 on: January 14, 2013, 10:32:30 PM »
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Sorry Mark...i am a bit confused as i do not have a 900....put it to you like this ....i decide to have a 10 channel 900 but for the moment i do not wish to MK (or green or whatever) or LLK ......can the machine fire on the colors i want for the moment or must i load all the slots with full ink carts.....are you compelled to fully load even though you have no use right now for the full color range..hypothetical.....it would be more economical to select your own immediate color preferences ...say run on 7 or whatever ...why load a color that you don't need to load....and if you load must that colour be managed like all your regularly used colours...trying to think economical...

Matt, it may be more economical but I think unrealistic. You would need custom colour mixing and dithering algorithms to suit the wants of each customer. It won't ever happen.

I have been doing very encouraging printer vibration tests for months now..3 shakes a day.

I seriously doubt anything near this amount shaking-up is necessary for any of these inks.

Believe Epson had a 9th channel 20 years ago


The first pigmented ink desktop printer that Epson produced came onto the market in 2000, model 2000P - that's about 12 some years ago. There has not been such a cleaning channel on any Epson printer outfitted with pigmented inks or 21st century ink delivery systems that I am aware of, so if such a thing were to be developed, I think it would be a big deal for a manufacturer to package it in a way  that the average user could use - few people are as adventurous and skilled as you and Eric - the vendor caters to the vast user pool out there; I think it would be super to have such a thing, as I said before, but I do think from a manufacturing, marketing and support perspective it wouldn't be a slam-dunk to introduce.

Re #8, I can understand problems with a malfunctioning wiper blade shifting stuff about rather than wiping it off completely - I have experienced that with a 4000 model. But when you say "we all know too that a malfunctioning wiper blade can be an indirect cause for air  bubbles working backwards into the head through puddling on the head surface itself I'm interested to know how we all know this, as well as the point about residue being sucked back into the printhead.

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« Reply #1156 on: January 15, 2013, 12:11:53 AM »
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Perhaps we do this the old fashioned way and see where the Epson boys drink after work?
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iladi
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« Reply #1157 on: January 15, 2013, 03:30:38 AM »
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one observation: in outdoor printers, like Rolands (also Epson heads), one can print with a few cloged or deflected nozzels because no one nottice from the distance. In time, the clogged nozzels "heal" themselvs, just by printing not by cleanings. I know it is not a solution for fine prints, but just an observation that cloged heads can heal by printing. Obvious, it is not a 100% solution, some clogs never cleans.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 03:36:15 AM by iladi » Logged
Blue moon
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« Reply #1158 on: January 15, 2013, 05:42:53 AM »
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Hi Eric,

Looks like you've been having some fun with the printhead.  Thanks for posting the pics!  I'm attaching a document that should help understanding the inner workings of what you're seeing.  Also, here is a link for you which should be a good read if you're curious.  http://doc.utwente.nl/58366/1/thesis_Wijshoff.pdf  Granted, they are a little dated...  Smiley

All the best,

Chris

Mark

This is just a thesis and you very probably have read it as avidly as i have !

You may have noticed that around page 125 the cameras used were able to pick air bubbles tethering on the brink of the nozzle wondering whether to "stay outside" the head or go with the flow backwards into the nozzles chamber......unfortunately the bubbles were photographed "sneaking back inside "
Seemingly whats to blame (as I'm sure you know ) is pooled ink lying on the head for longer than is healthy !
The thesis attributes a lot of responsibility to poor hygiene management by the user.. .
We are also admonished on the dirt side ie rag papers flints what have you....that in these scientists opinion goes back up the head....as the air bubble seemingly can....
I sincerely do not think it impossible for drying rubber blade resins to get in on the act with the air bubbles and dirt blobs ....what actually would prevent resins ( coagulating ink in simple terms) which have not been properly washed off the blade going anywhere that the wiper blade touches..or takes them...?Unfortunately,i am using a huge amount of imagination and hunch right now....i am just a printer user mostly who is learning so much from all of your contributions...
I would love to be able to prove that this thesis is right or wrong....
But I am way out of my depth......
But thanks Chris 233 for giving me a chance to read something of a different world  Cheesy
Matt
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Blue moon
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« Reply #1159 on: January 15, 2013, 06:05:57 AM »
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I have been doing very encouraging printer vibration tests for months now..3 shakes a day.

I seriously doubt anything near this amount shaking-up is necessary for any of these inks.

Mark,
I am fed up doing it too....but this printer (800) has not printed since last April...is in beautiful condition....is 7 or eight years old on its original head....demands a test pattern  every 3 weeks or so..i know by the lazy startup...little spray on the park pad for good measure when i think of it.(..about 18 c with 65 humidity ..).we have a damp climate most of the year...i have reduced the shake routine but i end up with a blocked nozzle as a thankyou. a bit of useless information for you...i need about 600 mls of ink a year ...just to stand still....i should be putting that 600 mls into a few photographs instead..
Once i go back printing i will dramatically reduce my simple shake program....
So far there is only one bit of advice that i can honestly and sincerely offer to everybody...and its this....i am certain that vibrating your cart or your printer for that matter will never do harm !
Matt





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