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Author Topic: Epson 7900 from the inside - out  (Read 324534 times)
Eric Gulbransen
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« Reply #60 on: January 29, 2012, 08:42:23 PM »
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Mark, two cartridges that our 7900 came with have expired dates.  Want to guess which ones?  That's right, PK and YW - our two un-cloggable clogs.

I called Epson, asked them about expired ink causing clogs.  They told me expiration dates have nothing to do with clogs - only color shifts.  I told them the only channels I have clogs are on my expired carts.  Again they told me, "No connection."

I don't know, like I said originally all of you know more than me - I am just an enthusiast.  But I don't have much faith in that advice.

What I think our problem was, and what I personally think most of everyone else's problems are, are related to wiper blade condition/wear/effectiveness.  The impression I got from holding it in my finger tips, and examining the cruddy splooge built up on it's torn and listing shape, was that this wiper was causing more problems than it was clearing.  Once I held our head in my finger tips, and took the photos I have uploaded for everyone here to see, my original impressions were reinforced.  Our head was a disgusting mess, and the only thing that's ever touched it is our wiper blade.

I am actively developing my understand of this Epson 7900.  So far I plan to approach running it successfully like I might consider lines of defense in a preventive war against clognsplooge.  First line of defense is pre-nozzle - dates on carts.  Dampers come second.  After those we go post-nozzle.  Capping station seals.  First they need to be in good condition, next they need to be clean.  Wiper blades need to be perfect.  Not great, not good enough - but perfect.  Once not perfect they leave crap behind them on our heads and our capping station seals can't seal properly.  Air enters the picture, dries the clognsplooge and suddenly we need cleanings on the LK channel.  We do a cleaning and suddenly we've got crap on the MK channel.  Then rather than printing we're on Luminous Landscape.  

I don't know, I'm not there yet, but my idea for the future is to drop cleaning solution on our wiper blade before any cleaning.  Also on the capping station regularly.  Periodically I plan to snap out the wiper blade to inspect it.  If it is not easily accessible when the head is released I will modify the machine so that it is.  Too critical not to.  With the right side cover removed you simply reach around back of the pump and cap assembly, spin the gear which lowers the wiper blade assembly until it is accessible, then snap it out/in to replace it.  But this is too much work.  Too hard to access for such a vital/simple/thirty second key maintenance practice.  With the right side cover in place (huge plastic right side outer-body panel) you can't reach around back of the pump and cap assembly to spin that gear.  If releasing the head via the menu system does not sync with the wiper blade assembly being out from behind it's recessed hiding place, I will cut a permanent hole in the back of the printer body panel so we can very easily access the gear to lower the wiper.  If you can open the back of a human you can open the back of an Epson 7900.  This thing pisses me off bad enough I'll design an Epson 7900 wiper blade access door and hire a machinist to produce six hundred to hand out at the next large format printer convention.

« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 08:48:13 PM by Go394 » Logged

Farmer
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« Reply #61 on: January 29, 2012, 08:49:01 PM »
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Hi Phil,
 My  gripe is that of the 5 that Epson says are authorized dealers, only the one I linked to actually has any useful info at all and even that is sketchy to say the least.
A exploded diagram without a description of the parts is pretty chancy if one needs a better breakdown.

  We do have to remember one thing which is that these machines are designed for  Pro use on a very regular basis, and knowing that, casual users should be aware that they are buying at their own risk if they don't use  them often enough to prevent clogs, which are the primary reason for most of these posted problems. Wink

  My only (and I think very substantial gripe) with Epson, is not disclosing recommended service intervals that are very much necessary to keep these machines running smoothly!

Hi David,

Well, exploded diagrams are there for visual reference so you can go "that one!" without needing to know what it does specifically beyond the fact you've decided that it doesn't work or it's broken.  For most users, it's a cosmetic item, but someone technical or specifically trained, the diagrams are generally easy to work with.

With regard to information from the dealers, then that's certainly something you should feedback to your local Epson.  But I would say, have you called them?  They might not have great web info, but that doesn't mean that they can't help you.

Also, regarding service intervals - my experience is that even very heavily used machines in the main do not require any service or maintenance - certainly not within 1 year.  That doesn't mean that users can't decide to take a pro-active stance and on a 6 monthly or yearly basis have a service tech come out and give the unit a quick health check.  If I had an expensive piece of equipment upon which my business relied, I'd certainly be pro-active about it.  It also doesn't mean that other users haven't found the need for this - it's always a case of YMMV, but the manfacturer can only go the normal or average patterns as best they can and for a product used in such wide ranging environments, that can be tough.

To use another anology - Toyota has a set schedule for maintenance of a Landscruiser model, but in the past when I've done long distance outback trips either myself when I was much younger or more recently with friends, it seemed very prudent to have a check up and service before going regardless of what the mileage was reading at the time.  Why?  Because a mechanical failure in outback Australia will be at the very least exceedingly expensive to deal with and it's no exaggeration to say it could be life threatening.  A single point of failure in my business is something that needs to be managed, regardless of what the manufacturer might suggest based on normal usage :-)

But, yeah, my suggestion would be to tell Epson that you found their appointed agents to be below your expectation in regard to the amount of info available - they can't possibly do anything about it if no one tells them.
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Farmer
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« Reply #62 on: January 29, 2012, 08:58:01 PM »
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Eric - from personal experience I can tell you that expired, but UNOPENED cartridges which have been kept in reasonable condition (ie not in direct sunlight or very excessive heat etc) won't be a problem.  Even in terms of colour, typically you just need to agitate them to deal with possible pigment separation.

To be specific, I've used carts that have been 3 years out of date on previous models (7880/9880) and with the HDR insket about 2 years out of date is the longest I've used.

Now, if they had been used (ie opened) or exposed to direct sunlight for extended periods and so on, then yes I could understand that causing a problem.
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Eric Gulbransen
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« Reply #63 on: January 29, 2012, 08:59:33 PM »
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Mark,
I have linked to the AIS site many times in the past threads about 7900/9900 clogging, and referred to their cleaning solution(s) for applying to the capping station to keep it moistened.

http://www.americaninkjetsystems.com/Unclogging_print_head_nozzles.html I have asked eric if this is what he used.

 I was admonished for suggesting using a solution that could possibly have detrimental consequences to the head.
Apparently at one time Epson offered a cleaning solution according to some references I have found... hmm

David


Hi David, sorry I've been bouncing around goals and subjects my mind is mush right now.  The solution I purchased was not from AIS.  I had a hell of a time navigating around their website.  On my browsers - both safari and firefox - all the text goes janky when I scroll up or down on any and all pages.  Impossible to read.  Can't explain or understand it, never saw it before.

The solution I purchased is called "Pemla".
Product code:  PJSE10273-1000
Description:  EDI Cleaning Fluid
Reference: JDW101-MC
Lot #: 48981-1


I did see your post describing the wiper blade not being included with the Pump and Cap Assembly.  But the image of the unit I purchased, which was admittedly wrapped in clear plastic, looked like it had it.  I was wrong.  That's 1,456 for the year so far...
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Eric Gulbransen
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« Reply #64 on: January 29, 2012, 09:02:44 PM »
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Now, if they had been used (ie opened) or exposed to direct sunlight for extended periods and so on, then yes I could understand that causing a problem.

I have no idea how long these expired carts have been opened for, Farmer.  I can assume but I'm already up to 1,456 "wrongs" for the year...
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 12:24:13 PM by Go394 » Logged

Eric Gulbransen
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« Reply #65 on: January 29, 2012, 09:19:06 PM »
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Have you been able to purchase the wiper blade assembly?.


Thank you David that's what I need in my life - big red letters - I'd never forget anything..

The wiper blade assembly, here's what I have so far:

Wiper blade assembly
568 1504179 
$16

Ordered from the same guy I bought the cleaning carts and solution from - Anthony Creek.  Nice guy, supplies lots of Epson printer parts.  His email is dtgsupplies@gmail.com

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Eric Gulbransen
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« Reply #66 on: January 29, 2012, 09:23:43 PM »
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BINGO

This is why you never do things alone;  my buddy Steve just found in the Epson 7900 service manual the following about replacing the wiper blade assembly:

There is a command in in the serviceman mode that will:
1) move the head carriage out of the way
2) bring down the wiper assembly.



So that's it brothers, simple wiper blade maintenance/replacement.  Oh the power of reading.

Crap I really wanted to make six hundred doors
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Eric Gulbransen
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« Reply #67 on: January 29, 2012, 10:12:49 PM »
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I only know of the Pemla product from the parts guy whose contact into I gave you.  Never went to their site.  

In the 7900sm.pdf service manual, on page 182 under 4.4.6.2 "Wiper Cleaner Assy":

1 - turn printer ON in serviceman mode ( Power on while pressing "menu-right arrow", "paperfeed-down arrow", and "OK button")
2 - Select "SELF TESTING"/Maintenance/Wiper Exchange/Sequence
3 - Press "OK button"
(carriage unit moves, then the wiper cleaner assy moves to the replacement position)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 10:14:45 PM by Go394 » Logged

Mark D Segal
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« Reply #68 on: January 30, 2012, 05:38:26 AM »
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Mark,
I have linked to the AIS site many times in the past threads about 7900/9900 clogging, and referred to their cleaning solution(s) for applying to the capping station to keep it moistened.

http://www.americaninkjetsystems.com/Unclogging_print_head_nozzles.html I have asked eric if this is what he used.

 I was admonished for suggesting using a solution that could possibly have detrimental consequences to the head.
Apparently at one time Epson offered a cleaning solution according to some references I have found... hmm

David

David, thanks, I've seen that site before - looks to be very useful at least for understanding the problems. I'd like to be using materials that Epson recommends if I were to ever do this kind of stuff myself - admittedly, rather unlikely.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2012, 06:01:46 AM »
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Hi David,

................... have a service tech come out and give the unit a quick health check.  ...............

Phil, I don't know what the situation is in Australia but here in Toronto I'd be pleased if someone could point me to an authorized Epson service facility for an Epson x900 series printer. The first three pages of a search on Google turned up nothing, and from my experience, Epson's preferred solution for machines under warranty is to replace them. The procedure is smooth and the company's support in these matters has been stellar, hence it looks to me as if Toronto owners would best be advised to buy extended service warranties. The Epson presence in the Toronto area no longer includes their own repair facilities. When Epson vacated the repair function of their support platform in Canada, they developed a contract with a firm called Treck-Hall, which since became Mondrian-Hall and later again became Unisource. They no longer advertise service and Epson did not refer me to them last time I needed help.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #70 on: January 30, 2012, 07:32:15 AM »
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I only know of the Pemla product from the parts guy whose contact into I gave you.  Never went to their site.  

In the 7900sm.pdf service manual, on page 182 under 4.4.6.2 "Wiper Cleaner Assy":

1 - turn printer ON in serviceman mode ( Power on while pressing "menu-right arrow", "paperfeed-down arrow", and "OK button")
2 - Select "SELF TESTING"/Maintenance/Wiper Exchange/Sequence
3 - Press "OK button"
(carriage unit moves, then the wiper cleaner assy moves to the replacement position)

Eric,
After replacing the wiper via the above method. Do you do anything to reset out of the service mode,if you know? Will everything just go back into place on its own?
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« Reply #71 on: January 30, 2012, 09:44:01 AM »
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I have my fingers crossed that when you fire it up the printer will work.

If it looks like it is working, look at the following items in the Service Manual to make sure the print head is aligned correctly.

5.4.4 Printhead Slant Adjustment (CR) page 277

5.4.5 Printhead Slant Adjustment (PF) page 280

5.4.6 Auto Uni-d Adjustment page 282

5.4.7 Auto Bi-D Adjustment page 283

Check the Service Manual for any other adjustments needed on the printhead.

The Decision One serviceman did all four things when my printhead was replaced.

When replacing the wiper do not touch the rubber piece with your hands.  You do not want to get human oils on the cleaning part of the wiper.
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Randy Carone
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« Reply #72 on: January 30, 2012, 09:55:24 AM »
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In the case of the OP, he is not replacing the head. The head that goes back in is the original head and if he has been careful, which it seems he has, he should be good to go when the head is re-installed.
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« Reply #73 on: January 30, 2012, 10:07:47 AM »
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Hi Dan,
 I can answer that for you..
According to the manual, the right cover, waste tank, and control panel is removed, and then the contol panel is plugged back in when the covers are off. The head is then released through the service mode as Eric indicated, and the wiper assembly is changed out ( all  while powered up!).
The manual CAUTIONS NOT TO PRESS ANY BUTTONS ON THE CONTROL PANEL DURING THE PART CHANGEOUT.
After the change there is a counter clearing adjustment that needs to be performed and when that is done you then press the OK button on the control panel to finalize the proceedure which then  returns the head to 'home' position.
Then the machine is turned off to replace the cover waste tank and control panel. Fini !
David

Thanks David.
Sounds pretty simple just have to get the nerve up to do it.
After seeing what my 7900 looked like, just am wondering how my 9900 looks?
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Eric Gulbransen
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« Reply #74 on: January 30, 2012, 10:27:33 AM »
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Eric,
After replacing the wiper via the above method. Do you do anything to reset out of the service mode,if you know? Will everything just go back into place on its own?



Good question Dan.  Here's the rest of the wiper cleaner assembly replacement procedure:

*NOTE:  YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE YOUR MACHINE APART IN ORDER TO CHANGE YOUR WIPER CLEANER ASSEMBLY.  The procedure is simple, I suggest (this marks my first official suggestion on Luminous Landscape) that EVERYONE with an Epson 79/9900 forces themselves to get comfortable with this procedure.

6.   Turn the printer ON in the Serviceman Mode. (Turn the power ON while pressing [Menu-right arrow], [PaperFeed-down arrow], and [OK] button.)
7.   Select SELF TESTING → Maintenance → Wiper Exchange → Sequence.
8.   Press the [OK] button.
The Carriage Unit moves, then the Wiper Cleaner Assy moves to the replacement position.

DISASSEMBLING PROCEDURE:
CAUTION - The following procedure is performed with the power ON. Therefore, do not touch any other part specified in the procedure or press a wrong button on the Control Panel. If the [OK] button on the Control Panel is pressed, the Carriage Unit returns to the home position, so be careful.

1 - Push up the tab of the Wiper Cleaner Assy, and remove the Wiper Cleaner Assy.

ADJUSTMENT REQUIRED:
Be sure to refer to Chapter 5 “Adjustment” (see p252) and perform specified adjustments after replacing the Wiper Cleaner Assy.  

<Adjustment Item>
1 - Counter Clear (Wiper Cleaner Assy)



*Note:  from what I gather this is not a physical adjustment.  This is simply a "reset" of the printer's log on your wiper's life cycle.  According to the Adjustment Items chart, the Epson 79/9900 printers log the usage life of an amazing number of it's replaceable parts - all of which apparently are accessible/resettable in the "Adjustment Item" menu.  When you replace the wiper cleaner assembly, reset the log.  If you fail to do this nothing bad will happen, just the printer's log of your wiper cleaner assembly will be inaccurate.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 10:34:06 AM by Go394 » Logged

Eric Gulbransen
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« Reply #75 on: January 30, 2012, 10:44:41 AM »
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I have my fingers crossed that when you fire it up the printer will work.

If it looks like it is working, look at the following items in the Service Manual to make sure the print head is aligned correctly.

5.4.4 Printhead Slant Adjustment (CR) page 277

5.4.5 Printhead Slant Adjustment (PF) page 280

5.4.6 Auto Uni-d Adjustment page 282

5.4.7 Auto Bi-D Adjustment page 283

Check the Service Manual for any other adjustments needed on the printhead.

The Decision One serviceman did all four things when my printhead was replaced.

When replacing the wiper do not touch the rubber piece with your hands.  You do not want to get human oils on the cleaning part of the wiper.

Great advice.  Thank you.  Special note, in the "Adjustment Items Chart", if you read it closely there is not only a list of the "parts-replaced"  that need adjustment, but actually an order in which they need to be adjusted in.  This is all listed clearly so it shouldn't be a problem to follow. 
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« Reply #76 on: January 30, 2012, 10:48:41 AM »
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Hi Eric!

Perhaps you'll consider making a video of the wiper assembly procedure?

Also, if you only remove the wiper assembly to clean it, do you think the counter should be reset or not?
I was very glad to hear that the machine doesn't need to be disassembled to to this!
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Eric Gulbransen
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« Reply #77 on: January 30, 2012, 11:19:52 AM »
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No you do NOT have to reset the counter if you remove the wiper assembly and then re-install it.  Service manual specifically states this.

Yes I plan to make a few videos on maintaining the 7900.  These won't be your average youtube tutorial videos though.  I plan to hire Sports Illustrated swimsuit models to star in each of the tutorials.  That, or maybe just my genius friend Steve.  I'm open to suggestions. 

If I can find someone local with a 9900 I'll be glad to include any differences between the two machines.  Problem I face right now is my house was robbed on the 20th of December.  All my stills gear, all my video gear - gone.  D3X, eight of my specially cherished pro lenses, my Sony EX3, my Sony EX1, mattebox, filters, etc. etc. etc.  So I'm parked for a while - banished from a life of creativity - left instead to live a life posting about un-breaking my Epson 7900...
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« Reply #78 on: January 30, 2012, 11:47:41 AM »
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.........Problem I face right now is my house was robbed on the 20th of December.  All my stills gear, all my video gear - gone.  D3X, eight of my specially cherished pro lenses, my Sony EX3, my Sony EX1, mattebox, filters, etc. etc. etc.  So I'm parked for a while - banished from a life of creativity - left instead to live a life posting about un-breaking my Epson 7900...

Terrible. I hope you were insured so at least you can recover some of the value. The Silver Lining may be some new gear for making new photos that get printed in the finally refurbished 7900? (One always has to look on the bright side - but those experience aren't nice. One feels violated, quite apart from the loss.)
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #79 on: January 30, 2012, 11:55:44 AM »
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Me again ;-0

According to the Dissasembly instuctions on the wiper it says this is all done while powered up.
I'd imagine you first take the right cover, waste tank ,and control panel off first while the power is off, and then replug the control  panel,turn on the power and proceed from there.
Th way it is explained sounds like you do everything with the power on and I think removing the control panel and replacing it while powered up would be dangerous?

Can you in fact remove the wiper assembly without any dissassembly.  Is it within reach without the right cover off?


STOP THE PRESSES DAVID

The way the service manual is being interpreted is misleading you.  DO NOT take any part of your machine apart in order to replace the wiper cleaner assembly.  Go a few posts up and find my quoted procedure on how to do this properly.  

If you read the manual and follow it step by step, it is confusing for this procedure.  Skip steps 1 - 5, these steps list the procedure for disassembling the right side of your machine - which you need to do in order to replace your entire pump and cap assembly, and which you do NOT do while the machine is powered up (you have to remove the control panel in order to remove the right side of the machine, first step they list after releasing the head is un-plug the machine).  DISREGARD these steps, 1 through 5, and you arrive at step 6 - which is the FIRST step to take while changing only the wiper cleaner assembly.  
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 11:58:46 AM by Go394 » Logged

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