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Author Topic: Epson 7900 from the inside - out  (Read 334824 times)
chaddro
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« Reply #740 on: June 18, 2012, 05:01:57 PM »
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When did you last update your firmware?

Back in November/December they added an "Execute (Powerful)" paired cleaning to the menu on my 9890.

Also, there are some options in the serviceman menu for stronger level cleanings, but would have to research those or defer to a more experience member. As yet I have
not had to resort to this. Three paired cleanings (with prints in between) has been my limit.

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chaddro
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« Reply #741 on: June 18, 2012, 05:44:41 PM »
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The following information is from the 79/99 Field Repair Guide and has probably been posted here in whole or part before, but I include as a reminder. Please note: Enter serviceman mode at your own risk. You can majorly screw your machine up if you are careless! So do so with caution and at your own risk.

Please also note that, not surprisingly, Epson chose to leave out most of this info from the user manuals. My 9890 User Manual only explains how to perform a cleaning. Does not go into the further, RATHER IMPORTANT, salient points that I believe are quite clear to any of us long time users.

Also note the SS Cleaning Mode. Dread the thought of the amount of ink spent, but this may be faster than 10 cleaning cycles in a row:

Now, for your reading enjoyment... to quote in full:

Cleaning Cycles (Types and Uses)
About All Cleaning Cycles
The Ink System is tuned to the gentle ink flow demand generated by printing.

All Cleaning cycles employ a much stronger ink demand than printing.

It is not unusual for the Ink System to “pull back” after a cleaning cycle drawing air or ink from the Cap into the Print Head Nozzle Plate. This can cause more Nozzles to be missing after a cleaning cycle than before. It also can cause contaminated (used) ink to be mixed with the “fresh” ink in the Nozzle Plate.

If the same Nozzles are missing after each cleaning cycle, continue cleaning.

If different Nozzles are missing after each cleaning cycle, stop cleaning, and print until the air or contaminated ink has been expelled from the Print Head.

Normal Cleaning: User Menu/MAINTENANCE/CLEANING/NORMAL

When a normal cleaning is activated, the Printer cleans all 5 color pairs, and uses the AID Circuitry to check results. According the information reported by the AID Circuitry the Printer increases or decreases the strength of the clean-ing cycle appropriately, and only cleans the color pairs that require additional cleaning.

The Printer always cleans color pairs individually. A color pair is defined as 2 colors that share a Cap. In theory the Printer will only clean the color pairs that have missing Nozzles. Cleaning color pairs individually takes more time, but saves Ink.

Color Pair Cleaning: User Menu/MAINTENANCE/CLEANING/CLEAN FOR EACH COLOR

Color pair cleaning is the cleaning method with the most efficient use of ink. How to use effectively:
1. Print an nozzle check, and identify the color pair with the most missing nozzles.
2. Clean that color pair only. After the Printer cleans the instructed color pair, it will use the AID Circuitry to determine the appropriate cleaning levels for any remaining missing nozzles on other color pairs. This method uses less ink than any other.

Power Cleaning: User Menu/Maintenance

The purpose of the Power Cleaning cycle is to remove air from the Negative Pressure Dampers, or air from the Print Head side of the Dampers.

The Power Cleaning cycle closes the Valves that restrict ink flow from the Ink Bays while simultaneously running the Cleaning Pump to build a vacuum on the Print Head Nozzle Plate. When sufficient vacuum is created, the Printer opens the Valves allowing the ink to “fill the vacuum”. This technique facilitates the removal of air from the system. Air in the system causes Nozzle drop out while printing.

Technicians: Use the Power Cleaning cycle after changing Dampers or Print Head.
User: Use the Power Cleaning cycle if Nozzles drop out while printing.

SS Cleaning: Maintenance Mode 1 (Hold the Pause button at power on)

SS Cleaning has a strong ultra sonic component. The Piezo Elements internal to the Print Head are used to attempt to break up pigment particles that may be clogging the interior of the Print Head.

Use SS Cleaning when a Nozzle can not be cleared through normal cleaning.

Color Pairs on the Print Head (Listed Left to Right)

1. Cyan and Vivid Magenta
2. Photo Black (Matte Black) and Light Black
3. Orange and Green
4. Light Light Black and Yellow
5. Vivid Light Magenta and Light Cyan.

EPILOGUE:

Funny thing happened to me the other day while printing: Service Call error 0010.
This had Epson tech support put me on hold for a good 10 minutes. Turns out this is related to the AID Circuitry's function. I just recently turn AID on after every printer (in an effort to better understand this whole shabang). Now, I CAN still print just fine, but AID fails - the printer cannot self check it's nozzles.

I think this goes all the way back to last August when I bought the printer. I would get "Automatic Cleaning Failed, RETRY?"
Initially, I put my trust in Epson and let the machine perform the cleaning, but it NEVER has a successful cleaning despite clean nozzle checks. I did complain to Epson about this, but they had no solutions. My supposition is that AID had never worked on my printer in the first place, and only after I turned it on to EVERY print did the error code through.

Now I'm waiting on a visit from Decision One. I spoke briefly with the tech over the phone (still waiting on parts) and he said it could be anywhere from easy (1 hour) to hard (4+ hours).

Will keep you updated!

-chaddro


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chaddro
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« Reply #742 on: June 21, 2012, 01:35:57 PM »
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My Visit from Decision One -> INDECISIVE!

So it took a solid week for my parts to show up, and low and behold of the three parts ordered (pump cap assembly, main-board, and AID board), only the AID board was correct.

The tech knew the pump cap was wrong at first site, but the main-boards look very familiar. The tech took out the old one and put new one in and didn't notice it was wrong until he tried to plug a connector in that had no receptacle. This board is apparently for the 7890 (!?!).

So out comes the wrong board to put my original board back in. Sounds logical? But nope... (Now, remember... I could print before. It's the printer's AID function that has failed.)
After re-assembling the machine, the USB port doesn't work.  I suggest we try the Ethernet and fortunately I can still print. Tech has no idea what could have happened to
the board to kill USB (we did try two different computers and also cables).

Now this tech says that it's rare to have the wrong items shipped. So I'm the unlucky 2%'er here. No idea when they will get back to me either. I have to wait on a call since they are going to have to order parts again.

BTW, when the tech ran the AID test from withing serviceman mode, he says that it should read "ok" on every line. Mine is in complete failure. Check yours. It doesn't hurt anything. AID is supposed to be superior to running manual nozzle checks. The tech pretty much thinks it's been bad from day one.

... stay tuned for episode two ...


 
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Eric Gulbransen
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« Reply #743 on: June 21, 2012, 08:20:12 PM »
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Wow Chaddro.  ...wow.

I am just back to computer land now.  Been gone over a week, driving through endless ages of deserts for days it seems on my trip to meet Edward the juggler about his 9900.  Edward's 9900 is in the back of my truck now, awaiting the start of my own episode II  "How To Drown a Dead Printhead In Six Gallons or Less". 

You my friend are an endless supply of information.  Thank you and good luck!

Nice work with randal21, Mark.  Success!!
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viktor_au
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« Reply #744 on: June 22, 2012, 04:56:06 PM »
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Air-pressurising system in 7900

I have to say thanks to Eric again.
He directed me to some helpful information and I can write the next:
The situation is more complex (in real life), as I found it in my 7900, but there are two major errors or reports related to an air pressurizing system faults of 7900.

For some reasons I have never experienced any of those errors having some obvious problems in my 7900 at that time, however.
First error can be 1537 (and I think 1536 related to it) when the Ink System Pressure Sensor reports the low pressure in the system.
I believe I didn’t have that error activated on by not using the faulty cartridge (photo-black) at all. This cartridge was leaking the air inside it and what is more important – was leaking the ink inside the air-chamber as well. Two problems in one Epson original cartridge.
A good idea in this situation is to test the cartridge by gently pumping a small amount of air by using the cartridge Air Pressure Insert Nipple (at the bottom of the cartridge). If you will continue to pump the air inside the cartridge the answer would be simple: it is faulty. A good cartridge will not accept a lot of air and eventually you won’t be able to pump more.
I found out the faulty cartridge by doing the opposite. I used the syringe to pump the ink out of the air-chamber when I heard the whistling noise of air getting inside the cartridge. I suppose this is just the same to the opposite procedure by pumping the air inside the cartridge. One way or another the cartridge must stop accepting the air in it or stop letting you to pump the air out of it.

The second situation is Replace Ink cartridge message on display.
In this situation the the CSIC Chip reports ink in the cartridge, but the Ink Out Sensor (located where the ink leaves the Cartridge) reports no ink getting out of it.
In that situation you have to use (again) the Air Pressure Insert Nipple (at the bottom of the cartridge) to pump the air inside the cartridge (gently). After you fill some resistance you have to stop and close the Air Pressure Insert Nipple. The bag inside the cartridge is under air pressure around it and by using the office clip and opening the cartridge ink outlet (at the top of the cartridge) you can release the air bubble and let the ink out of the cartridge.

As I understood the good and healthy work of air-pressurising system is more important if 7900 placed on 33d floor or at some location really high above the sea level.

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viktor_au
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« Reply #745 on: June 24, 2012, 02:48:25 AM »
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Completely missing Light Cyan channel on Nozzle Test page

After I have finished fighting the ink in the air-pressurising system problem I have to face a new problem: the LC channel was blank on the nozzle test page.
I inspected the ink tubes. It was obvious that ink from LC cartridge wasn’t inside the plastic tube and some big air-bubbles occupied space between ink in the tube. I could see the dark and white areas in the tube.
It was an ink supply issue. The ink wasn’t reaching the Print Head.
I removed the LC cartridge and by using the syringe tried to pump the air inside it. It was happily pressurized without any problems.
Maybe I do have some problem in the tube intake valve. It possibly leaked some air inside the tube when the cartridge was removed when I was fixing the ink inside the air system problem. If it is the case, I will face it again later on one day.
I did next:
1.   I have executed a “Normal” cleaning procedure. No changes were observed. The air-bubble inside the LC tube didn’t  move at all.
2.   I have performed a Nozzle Check. LC color was not printed.
3.   I have executed a Color Pair cleaning procedure. The air-bubble moved up rapidly an inch and stopped.
4.   I have repeated the Nozzle Check and Color Pair cleaning procedures tree times until the ink reached the Print Head and LC color was printed on Nozzle Check Page.

The say: The purpose of the Power Cleaning cycle is to remove the any air in the Dampers that might restrict ink flow.
And I think they right.
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iladi
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« Reply #746 on: June 27, 2012, 02:53:00 PM »
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My story, for short.
I was using dyes in my epson 9700 (same as 9900, but CCMMYYKK) since day one only with minor problems mainly due to bad carts or chips. I print most tehnical drafts and short therm POS and ocasionaly on photo paper. Last week i ordered OCP  pigmented ink from Octopus Germany. First problem: one contacts in the ink bay to the magenta cartridge get broke. Service want to sell me the whole ink bay. Thanks to Eric, I have the serviceman manual. I dismantle the printer and discovered that from 9 contacts of the ink cart chip, only 8 are used, so i replace the faulty one with the unused one. So far, so good, 300 euros economy. Thanks again Eric.
But the worst part it is still coming. I have inkflow problems. It seems that ink is to thick / nozzles are to thin. Coze I have nozzles drop while printing especialy on mate black and magenta. Other guy on other forum also notice that he has problems with yellow.

SO.... my conclusion is that maybe, maybe even original epson inks are a little to thick for such thin nozzles. Maybe dampers are a little subpar for a good inkflow (dampers seem a little small inncomparison with other). I don't know maybe I am speculating, but in mutoh same inks perform way better.

One more thing: other guy on other forum suggests that he added 1 ml of ammonia to 100 ml  ink, and his inkflow was getting better without sacrifacing(?) print quality.
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Randy Carone
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« Reply #747 on: June 27, 2012, 03:13:07 PM »
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How can you base your supposition about Epson ink clogs by using third party ink from Germany!? Makes no sense. And this was after using dye ink that is not engineered by Epson?
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Randy Carone
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« Reply #748 on: June 27, 2012, 03:14:16 PM »
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My story, for short.
I was using dyes in my epson 9700 (same as 9900, but CCMMYYKK) since day one only with minor problems mainly due to bad carts or chips. I print most tehnical drafts and short therm POS and ocasionaly on photo paper. Last week i ordered OCP  pigmented ink from Octopus Germany. First problem: one contacts in the ink bay to the magenta cartridge get broke. Service want to sell me the whole ink bay. Thanks to Eric, I have the serviceman manual. I dismantle the printer and discovered that from 9 contacts of the ink cart chip, only 8 are used, so i replace the faulty one with the unused one. So far, so good, 300 euros economy. Thanks again Eric.
But the worst part it is still coming. I have inkflow problems. It seems that ink is to thick / nozzles are to thin. Coze I have nozzles drop while printing especialy on mate black and magenta. Other guy on other forum also notice that he has problems with yellow.

SO.... my conclusion is that maybe, maybe even original epson inks are a little to thick for such thin nozzles. Maybe dampers are a little subpar for a good inkflow (dampers seem a little small inncomparison with other). I don't know maybe I am speculating, but in mutoh same inks perform way better.

One more thing: other guy on other forum suggests that he added 1 ml of ammonia to 100 ml  ink, and his inkflow was getting better without sacrifacing(?) print quality.

Have you ever actually used Epson ink designed for that printer? If so what was your operating experience with it?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
iladi
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« Reply #749 on: June 27, 2012, 03:23:24 PM »
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@randy: based on how thick pigmented ink is comparing with dye.
@ mark: no. Never used original ink, just serynge them for some tests.

I don' t want to offend someone with my post. Just made some speculations based on my personal experience. As i mentioned before i also have solvent printer and a sepiax printer, all epson printhead based and i can clearly see semnificant difference in response of the piezo head in relation with ink thikness.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #750 on: June 27, 2012, 03:53:07 PM »
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@randy: based on how thick pigmented ink is comparing with dye.
@ mark: no. Never used original ink, just serynge them for some tests.

I don' t want to offend someone with my post. Just made some speculations based on my personal experience. As i mentioned before i also have solvent printer and a sepiax printer, all epson printhead based and i can clearly see semnificant difference in response of the piezo head in relation with ink thikness.

There's no issue here of offending anyone; at least I have zero vested interest in whether you or any one else uses Epson ink - it's a purely objective question directed at understanding whether you've ever experienced the problems you mention using Epson inks, because according to Epson, the inks and the printer technology are an integrated package designed to work properly with each other. Therefore, if you are not using their ink, the diagnosis of your problems must now at least consider that 3rd party ink MAY BE another variable in play (and I'm not saying necessarily it is - just that it may be). The importance of this observation simply is that IF your printer would work fine using Epson ink, but would be problematic as you describe here using the inks you are using, that would tell you something about how to solve your problem, and IF not, then you would know ink isn't the issue.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Randy Carone
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« Reply #751 on: June 27, 2012, 04:14:57 PM »
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Do you mean how thick 'third party' pigment ink is compared to 'third party' dye ink? So far, in your description, you have not compared Epson ink in your Epson printer with the 'third pary' inks. I know that dye ink solids are less problematic than pigment ink solids but I don't know if your viscosity claim is accurate. Also, I don't know if the viscosity measurement of a static container of pigment ink is higher or lower than the viscosity measurement under shear, which can be dramatically different. One would need to use a capillary viscometer to evaluate that physical property. This property can be as important as 'the correct color' when it comes to using non-Epson inks.
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Randy Carone
iladi
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« Reply #752 on: June 27, 2012, 04:19:19 PM »
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I am shure that Epson ink is carefully designed for each printer. And, probably, Epson ink is superior to most of the third party inks. But my experience so far tells me that a thinner ink is better for long run prints. And require way less maintenance to the printer's parts. With dyes I can barely see ink deposits on flushpad and capstation. Pigments deposits similar to auto grease on the flushpad and capstation. Also i think the little pumps in the printhead are less stressed by a thinner ink. You are right, my problems comes with the ink. THIS INK. when I was using dyes I had zero ink related problems in about 6000 prints, only carts related problems. The only drawback of dye was the fast sun fading problem. Oh, and the gamut. Almost double for dyes compared to pigments. To bad is a long way to USA because I realy want to try the new Cone dyes.

Randy, even epson pigmented ink is thicker than epson dye ink. Dye particles are much much smaller than pigments.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 04:25:24 PM by iladi » Logged
Randy Carone
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« Reply #753 on: June 27, 2012, 04:46:13 PM »
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Particle size is not the determining factor with respect to 'thickness' or viscosity. I'm fairly certain that dye ink has a wider gamut than pigment - double ? - I doubt it. But what is the point? They fade to less than the gamut of pigment ink in relatively short time frame.
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Randy Carone
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« Reply #754 on: June 27, 2012, 06:04:03 PM »
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Even while the dyes are at maximum effectiveness I would like to see rigorous data comparing the gamuts for the different colour groups of those dyes relative to the Epson Ultrachrome HDR inkset. I think if we had this data we may well be surprised by how small the differences could be. The difference was quite visible in the days of the Epson 2000P back in 1999, but much has changed since then.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #755 on: June 27, 2012, 09:10:50 PM »
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Just   for the record, there are no "particles" in dye inks. The ink is a solution containing dyes and other components in a disolved, or molecular, state.
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chaddro
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« Reply #756 on: July 01, 2012, 09:14:59 PM »
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Hey All! Well, after yet ANOTHER delay for MORE wrong parts sent from Epson, it looks like D1 is going to show up tomorrow mid morning some time. That is if they didn't yet again send the wrong main board...



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chaddro
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« Reply #757 on: July 02, 2012, 03:35:50 PM »
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FINALLY! A functional printer once again. Turns out that something was wrong with the pump-cap station and this was causing the AID to fail.

I have several print jobs in the pipeline. I'll let you know how well the AID performs when set to "every print".

BTW, DON'T DROP your paper roll end caps. One of mine rolled off the table, and **snap** broke the handle. At a 100 dollars a pair you'd think they could use a more durable plastic!
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tomsud
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« Reply #758 on: July 11, 2012, 09:51:28 AM »
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help  Cry Cry Cry
the print head on my Epson 9900 broke down after 82 printed pages ... and the printer is no longer under warranty since 9 months, epson France refuses to sell me a new print head and wonder me to let repair the machine in their workshops for 985 euros the head (+ / -750 U.S. dollars) and 520 euros (+ / - $ 300) for work ...... ouch!! it hurts .... Undecided
As I am able to repair it myself (if I have a print head of course)
 I expect a response from this site: that http://www.gedat-spareparts.com  in germany it seems to be the only one who can send me a new print head in europe.
But i wonder !!!
Whatkind of  software do you use to enter the head  "ranking code" I can not find anithing about that on the cd's provided with the 9900.......and of course if I ask Epson France hahaha you know the answer as I do!

 thank you for helping me it would be nice, and this forum is really very interresting I have not read everything ends
Excuse my English I'm using a translator  Grin

Mais je parle anglais ! (in French in the text)
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Eric Gulbransen
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« Reply #759 on: July 11, 2012, 04:00:59 PM »
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I'm 30% through my next X900 video, tomsud.  Just so happens to be on removing and reinstalling the 7900/9900 printheads.  It's kind of involved, the process, but it is doable by most who are handy with a screwdriver.  Lots of o-rings to damage/lose/put in cockeyed.  Lots of screws to put back in the wrong holes.  And lots, I mean LOTS, of sequential steps to follow.  That's before we even get into the ranking part of it - which also is not impossible, just takes time.

Your goal now is find a head.  Once you do that, the rest gets easier.
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