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Author Topic: Epson 7900 from the inside - out  (Read 261698 times)
markbrand
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« Reply #900 on: November 15, 2012, 06:47:38 PM »
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This is my first time at the forum and came to it by Eric G's hell. I've a new Epson 7900 in San Diego and love the prints I exhibit in galleries in Southern Ca but the machine clogs like a bastard. Epson has to do something about this ink waster.

At any rate, after 4 months of non-use I tried and succeeded in bringing the printer back to life. (never had this problem with my smaller Epson printers - had to burn a print or two, but that's ok. Burning cart after ink cart and filling tank after maintenance tank is ridiculous).  An overnight rest of the head on top of a single layer of 5"x7" windexed paper has had good results and although I tried a few days of other solutions, time to let the printer rest (elasticity of ink in the tubes?) is actually key. Another useful trick was making a print composed of the ink colors that fail in the nozzle check. Seems to help, though the printer will sometimes only print half the image, give up and asking for a cleaning. With enough time and ink spent, it always comes back. (though now I have a paper sensor issue that won't quit).

Count me in for a class action against Epson on the 7900 if they don't fix the FW, give some head dock solution, or provide an actual remedy. This has moved from a chess game where every move costs between $5 and $50 to a point where I feel I sweating on a strip in Vegas gambling to get some pictures out.

Mark Richard Beaulieu
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 01:51:48 PM by markbrand » Logged
Bob DeBellis
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« Reply #901 on: November 15, 2012, 09:50:39 PM »
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Hi Mark,

The Epson 7900 reminds of the the strange blood consuming plant in the movie "The Little Shop of Horrors" that constantly said "Feed me Seymore" except it's ink and $ that it consumes in vast quantities.
I'm very annoyed with Epson as well and believe they should do something. I'm preparing to replace my print head and am concerned of a repeat performance after all this expense. In my case I had a little used printer that I made sure was working fine before I went on a 10 day vacation only to find had a permanent clog in the CY channel upon my return. After many cleaning attempts the CY clog ultimately resulted in a "fatal error" code indicating a replacement of the print head was necessary.
I would gladly join a class action.

Bob DeBellis
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Peter F.
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« Reply #902 on: November 16, 2012, 12:34:33 AM »
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I have had my 7900 for 4 years now and have had Decision One out FIVE times for clogged/failed heads. The technician is competent its the hardware that sucks ($ literally!) I got an extended warranty from Epson for another $650 after it cost me ~$1,800 to fix the 3rd head failure. I am now faced with a clogged head (again) after not printing for more than 4 weeks! I burned through almost a full maintenance tank trying to clear the clog. Finally, after researching other printer options, I gave up and am buying a new 7900 with a 3 year warranty right at the start. Although I am planning to adopt some more rigorous procedures for printing more often and monitor room humidity level, if it screws up it will be on Epson. If you own a 7900 that is less than 1 year old 7900, I think you would be crazy not to buy the extended 2 year warranty. As of today I found a 7900 for $2,399 and a 2-yr Extension for $1,272.

Needless to say, I would be a good plaintiff's witness!
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xsydx
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« Reply #903 on: November 16, 2012, 01:14:06 PM »
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Well I decided to roll the dice with Canon. I spoke with someone who deals with canon/hp/epson and he suggested I go with that over the others. Lower maintenance, user replaceable print heads and good quality. He admits canon has stepped their game up to bring their quality up from where it was a few years ago.

I ended up getting the newly released iPF8400 44" since we used to outsource our larger enlargements due to the 24" print size on our old printer.

Any offers for my epson 7900?  Roll Eyes
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Jim Coda
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« Reply #904 on: November 16, 2012, 01:47:57 PM »
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Did you get it for that $2590 price you mentioned earlier?  If so, where?
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xsydx
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« Reply #905 on: November 16, 2012, 01:59:43 PM »
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I got it for $3599 - $1000 Canon Mail in Rebate (take picture of any non-canon 44" or larger printer's serial number) + Tax
Free Shipping
Set of 330 ml ink

And Lexjet has a special now that if you order $500 worth of material you get a free iPad Mini. So i got that.

Call Lexjet (800-453-9538) and ask for Michael Clementi. Tell him Sid from Miami referred you if you would like, although there is nothing in it for me. 

Even if you don't purchase a printer, I highly recommend Lexjet for paper needs. they are very good and offer tremendous support plus 9.99 flat-rate shipping on all products.
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Bob DeBellis
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« Reply #906 on: November 16, 2012, 09:16:08 PM »
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Hi folks,
Another gem of customer relations from Epson and D1 (Delusion 1). If D1 replaces your print head, you must surrender to them the original print head that they removed from the printer or they will not do the job. D1 told me Epson charges them for not returning the print heads to them. Epson support told me today that D1 gets something from Epson for returning the heads to them. Excuse me, but isn't this my print head that was in my printer that I paid for with my money. If I want to keep my old print head to decorate my Xmas tree with, it is my decision - one. It just gets more unbelievable all the time.
Bob D.
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enduser
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« Reply #907 on: November 18, 2012, 06:44:11 AM »
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Obviously Epson will be doing some inspection work on the returned print heads.  Ongoinng development work will be assisted greatly by lab examinations of used heads.  Standard industrial practice.  They should actually pay the user for them though.
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Streetshooter
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« Reply #908 on: November 18, 2012, 10:38:05 AM »
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I find it unbelievable that Epson are treating this problem with their printers with, it appears, a certain amount of indifference. They surely must be losing customers big style to other large format printer manufacturers. Don't they care about good customer relations?

Just incredible.

Pete

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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #909 on: November 18, 2012, 10:48:30 AM »
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I find it unbelievable that Epson are treating this problem with their printers with, it appears, a certain amount of indifference. They surely must be losing customers big style to other large format printer manufacturers. Don't they care about good customer relations?

Just incredible.

Pete



In fact it is so unbelievable that I don't believe it. And not only for that reason, but also because it is well-known that from the get-go their research teams have been studying and testing ways to optimize both quality and performance. That doesn't mean the solutions they come up with are necessarily optimal for all needs and all people all the time, but "indifference" is hardly how I would characterize this company. Yes, not every customer will buy an Epson printer, but one has to assume they're bright enough to know this and that's business, and good for us that there is competition.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
remko
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« Reply #910 on: November 18, 2012, 02:43:56 PM »
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In fact it is so unbelievable that I don't believe it. And not only for that reason, but also because it is well-known that from the get-go their research teams have been studying and testing ways to optimize both quality and performance. That doesn't mean the solutions they come up with are necessarily optimal for all needs and all people all the time, but "indifference" is hardly how I would characterize this company. Yes, not every customer will buy an Epson printer, but one has to assume they're bright enough to know this and that's business, and good for us that there is competition.

+1

What might been perceived as indifference is perhaps due to the lack of a public statement of Epson about this issue?
I agree that it looks to be indifference at play here, but the very few people I know of Epson Europe are indeed the opposite.

What might be at play here is a cultural difference. Asian companies hardly ever admit any issues publicly as that will be seen as a loss of face, even more so for Japanese companies. It is the same with Nikon / Canon and the like.

cheers,
Remko
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #911 on: November 18, 2012, 03:23:11 PM »
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I agree that it looks to be indifference at play here, but the very few people I know of Epson Europe are indeed the opposite.


Not everyone's experience in Europe with 11880 and x900  models. "Not using Epson media on that printer sir, if it happens with  Epson media you can come back with your complaint. No mister, not even for Hahnemühle papers¨

In the past there was that Epson dye ink orange plague, Wilhelm Research did not test on ozone gas fading. Both parties admitted failures. The US customers were compensated but nobody in the rest of the world including Europe was compensated. Advertising in Europe was not changed either after the incident. The point is simply that if a company can be indifferent to the problem and it does not become a legal issue or does not cut fast and deep into the sales numbers then that strategy is paying off. Loss of face in whatever country has nothing to do with it.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
470+ inkjet paper white spectral plots, November 2012.







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JeffW
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« Reply #912 on: November 18, 2012, 07:38:01 PM »
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About a year and a half ago, I bought a 4900. What sold was the advertisement from Epson "And, with our latest ink-repelling coating and auto nozzle verification technologies, clogged nozzles are virtually eliminated."  I am not a production printer, but love the printing process. I have had nothing bu plugged jets from the get go to the point of plugged beyond repair at this point. I appreciate the work of Eric and others on this site and had hoped to find the bucket at the end of the rainbow. Unfortunately, it is a situation of like I read earlier " feed me" I didn't get into this printer with the idea that it would be all consuming. I have a life beyond printing.

With that off of chest, I have bought and used 4 Epson printers with the first one being the 1270. Loved that printer. Never have had as much trouble with clogged nozzles like I have with the 4900. I like Epson but at this point would never buy another. Mind you I am not an irrational person, just very frustrated that Epson cannot or will not be honorable.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #913 on: November 18, 2012, 08:29:44 PM »
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Yes, I remember that advertising line also, and I too believe it is not correct. Clogging is not "virtually eliminated". But my experience has been that it is pretty well-controlled, and if it isn't, and at least while your 4900 is in warranty, Epson will do something about that. So what I don't understand about your situation - because you didn't say - is what happened for that whole first year when the printer was under warranty and "from the get-go" you were having these accumulating clogging problems. What did you do about it, and what did Epson do or not do to help you out?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
JeffW
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« Reply #914 on: November 18, 2012, 09:11:08 PM »
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I have the typically situation whereby the clogs during the warranty period were clear able with, at often times heavy cleanings. The only time it was necessary to call Epson was when if first received the machine that there was such an over-whelming smell that I could not bring it in the house. I am not a chemist, but I thought that maybe the plastic had not cured. They had offered to replace it, but I opted to wait a week and see if it got better before taking up their offer. Several weeks later, it did get better.

My real troubles started about the end of August, when C And VM dropped out a dozen nozzles each. No return from there and has gotten worse. With no warranty and faced with major expense, ie maintenance call, I went on the web to see what I could do. Unfortunately I did not find this site until this week.

I tried windex under the head, then two cleaning cartridges, then a copy of the service manual and cleaning the face of the head. More work than and ink I should have for only having printed 250 prints.

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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #915 on: November 18, 2012, 09:25:21 PM »
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If you've only made 250 prints in 18 months that could be the source of your problem. If the machine was left repeatedly for weeks at a time not making prints, I think the trouble you are describing perhaps should not be totally unexpected. These printers were designed to be used quite regularly. I have had to leave mine unused for weeks at a time over the past year, but it was recoverable with a cleaning or two and then perhaps a channel pair once or twice on top of that, but always success at the end of this. Do you have the printer in a very dry room? That can also contribute to problems. Even though your warranty has expired, I would recommend that you ANYHOW call Epson Prographic Support at the number they give you in the documentation and discuss the problem with them. BTW, I'm curious about how you obtained the service manual? This is *supposed to be* a proprietary document available only to authorized service personnel.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
enduser
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« Reply #916 on: November 19, 2012, 12:10:48 AM »
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The Internet can connect you to a myriad of sources for service manuals for limitless types of machines - printers are no exception.

On another point, this thread has run its course as it has become a place to tell others your Epson has bad clogs, and for others to say theirs don't.  Helpful solutions are very few and far between at this point.
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #917 on: November 19, 2012, 07:53:10 AM »
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On another point, this thread has run its course as it has become a place to tell others your Epson has bad clogs, and for others to say theirs don't.  Helpful solutions are very few and far between at this point.
+1000; it would be great if future respondents could adhere to the original premise of the thread and post their solutions to problems rather than discussing whether or not Epson printers clog or not.  I find the technical discussions quite illuminating and potentially useful even though I don't own a 7900.

Alan
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Streetshooter
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« Reply #918 on: November 19, 2012, 10:28:20 AM »
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+1000; it would be great if future respondents could adhere to the original premise of the thread and post their solutions to problems rather than discussing whether or not Epson printers clog or not.  I find the technical discussions quite illuminating and potentially useful even though I don't own a 7900.

Alan

There are no other solutions other than buying a new printer, whether from Epson or another brand. This thread has demonstrated that, and for those of us that have blocked heads on our Epson printers that's a bitter pill to swallow.

Moral of the story is to always buy an extended warranty when buying an Epson printer and factor that into the purchase price.

Pete
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #919 on: November 19, 2012, 12:04:29 PM »
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Moral of the story is to always buy an extended warranty when buying an Epson printer and factor that into the purchase price.

Pete

Quite frankly I'm not convinced this is the moral of the story, or that buying an extended warranty is necessarily a good investment. An extended warranty is an insurance policy, and like all insurance policies it is a risk pool. Whether it is worth buying into that risk pool depends on the cost of the premium relative to the value of the risk. You can only know the value of the risk if you have data on the percentage of machines that require calling the warranty and the avoided cost os the covered incidents. The value of risk is probability of impact times cost of impact. Hence, just for hypothetical illustration in a simple way: if there is a 5% probability of impact and the avoided cost is expected to be $1000, the expected cost of the risk is $50. So if you pay $500 for the risk premium and its expected value is $50, you aren't on the winning side of that bet. Only if you are one of the "5%" do you come out ahead. It's a lottery. Or it's a feel good thing. One thing absolutely for certain: you cannot tell from web forums, including this one, what your probability of impact is for two reasons: (a) we don't have Epson's data on how many printers were sold and how many needed to be repaired, and (b) web forums are skewed, so you can't infer expected performance data from them: complaints are heard in much higher proportion than satisfied customers. It's like the news. All the thousands of aircraft that take off and land safely all over the world every day never make the news because it's not news. If one crashes it is news and that gets reported. Same kind of thing here. Believe what you read, but don't believe for a moment it's the whole story.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
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