Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 ... 55 56 [57] 58 59 ... 74 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Epson 7900 from the inside - out  (Read 261046 times)
Larry Heath
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 139


« Reply #1120 on: January 08, 2013, 10:06:13 AM »
ReplyReply

Ok here is the MSDS for the suspect red material. The good news is that its L/D 50 seems pretty high so it wont kill you unless you get a lot of it on you or in you. So I would approach it in much the same way you do with a chop saw, with significant respect. Its a tool use it wisely.

On a lighter note, I was thinking maybe adding some of the solvent DMSO to a more conventional cocktail of cleaning substances might help allow for better penetration of the materials into the small passages and more quickly remove the dried ink/polymerized carrier materials.

Later Larry
Logged
Alan Goldhammer
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1573


WWW
« Reply #1121 on: January 08, 2013, 12:21:28 PM »
ReplyReply


On a lighter note, I was thinking maybe adding some of the solvent DMSO to a more conventional cocktail of cleaning substances might help allow for better penetration of the materials into the small passages and more quickly remove the dried ink/polymerized carrier materials.

Later Larry
I would be very careful if you use DMSO as it could dissolve a lot more than just the ink clog; it's quite potent.  Don't get any on your fingers as you will taste it on your tongue very quickly (though it won't be hazardous).
Logged

Eric Gulbransen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 298


never surrender


WWW
« Reply #1122 on: January 09, 2013, 01:54:57 AM »
ReplyReply

Feel like I'm losing my mind here you guys throw chemical terms around like I throw crown molding up.  I am anxious to take the next step, just not sure what it is.  I checked my red soaked channel tonight, nothing doing it looks exactly the same.  Not sure wtf happened but somehow, someway, my cyan packed test channel got cleared clean as the day it was born.  Maybe this mansion has ghosts..  Tonight I repeated the same exact soak, only this time in the clear fluid.  Maybe that was it. 

Alan that supplier of the X-100 or whatever it was called, they denied me.  It was a chick on the phone, they always deny me.  So I did some poking around google tonight, as I really want to keep this ball rolling here, and found an interesting thread written by a German guy a couple of years ago who by accident found a great way to clean dried pigment ink.  It was a German made product designed for food service cleaning.  Turns out 3M sells a similar product.  it's kind of expensive - cheapest I can find is on amazon, it's $80 for 2liter bottle.  But whatever, if it works...

It's ingredients are, among other things I imagine, include ETHYLENE GLYCOL ETHYLHEXYL ETHER which are also apparently found in inkjet inks.

So what do our resident chemists think, please?
Logged

Alan Goldhammer
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1573


WWW
« Reply #1123 on: January 09, 2013, 07:19:19 AM »
ReplyReply

Eric, please post the link to the 3M product so I can see what's in it.  It may be fairly concentrated stuff and maybe the cost comes down when you dilute it to a working concentration.  All of these things contain some kind of surfactant (detergent) and I'm not sure that it really makes much of a difference about which one they use.  My goal is to help find a mixture that works and is cheap to make.  Sorry to hear about the problems getting Triton X-100; I wish I was still working in a lab and I could get some to you. 
Logged

Eric Gulbransen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 298


never surrender


WWW
« Reply #1124 on: January 09, 2013, 10:10:53 AM »
ReplyReply

Here it is Alan - http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Building-Life/Cycle/Products/Catalog/?PC_7_RJH9U52300PM102FLRECAB2K44000000_nid=38T6ZVWPPSbeQB2XRP1WS8gl


here is a direct link to the msds of this 3M food service degreaser
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 10:28:39 AM by Eric Gulbransen » Logged

Alan Goldhammer
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1573


WWW
« Reply #1125 on: January 09, 2013, 02:43:26 PM »
ReplyReply

Eric, this is pretty much a mixture of concentrated detergents, primarily long chain alcohol derivatives.  They are non-ionic (similar to Triton X-100) which means they well be gentler than ionic detergents which are usually ammonium compounds which would have a basic pH or sulfates which would be mildly acidic.  Certainly these would have to be diluted down to get a working solution and I can't see anything here that would be problematic for the print head.  Most of the consumer products that you can get in the grocery store have similar compounds in them but they are diluted way down (for fun I looked up Formula 409 which has ionic detergents but the concentrations of the two main ingredients is less than 2%).  If you could get a bottle of this stuff it would likely last a long while.  I wouldn't go above a working concentration of about 5% and would start off maybe at 1-2% here.

In looking at some of the Epson ink MSDS listings I guess the best approach might be to mix up something along the lines of the following (measure these in some volume unit ounces or ml):

6 parts water
2 parts isopropyl alcohol
2 parts glycerine (or glycerol as it is more commonly called)
1/2 part detergent

You could gradually increase the detergent if nothing is working and see if that helps.  I think the glycerol is important for preserving the moisture in the print head

Alan
Logged

Blue moon
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 92


« Reply #1126 on: January 09, 2013, 05:36:11 PM »
ReplyReply

Feel like I'm losing my mind here you guys throw chemical terms around like I throw crown molding up.  I am anxious to take the next step, just not sure what it is.  I checked my red soaked channel tonight, nothing doing it looks exactly the same.  Not sure wtf happened but somehow, someway, my cyan packed test channel got cleared clean as the day it was born.  Maybe this mansion has ghosts..  Tonight I repeated the same exact soak, only this time in the clear fluid.  Maybe that was it. 

Eric
Funny thing is i would trust  (with great care for your safety obviously ) your "red liquid" .......it shifted your cyan clog beautifully....the "white i would guess is an antidote or lubricant to undo any of the corrosive effects of the "red" once the clog has passed...the fact that red killed the cyan clog and white did not is an encouraging sign....can you possibly repeat both exercises a second time in the same way....you must be exhausted.."red may be a surfactant in disguise.....maybe
Ps lived in a haunted house once so im just used to this sort of thing....Alos Alan's recipes are getting very close to the mark...
Logged
Eric Gulbransen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 298


never surrender


WWW
« Reply #1127 on: January 09, 2013, 06:08:01 PM »
ReplyReply

Alan please when you mention "diluting down to get a working solution" what exactly do you mean?  This red liquid I have here for instance, if it were concentrated with the intent to be diluted down, and I did not dilute it, would that render it worthless?  Do these ingredients need to be spot on with ratios?  If so, if you don't mind me asking, why?  I'm sorry but neither of these questions have two wheels or can be nailed, so naturally I am lost.
Logged

Alan Goldhammer
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1573


WWW
« Reply #1128 on: January 09, 2013, 06:38:10 PM »
ReplyReply

The recipe I just posted  would be the best guess at a cleaning liquid based on the Epson inks and adding some stuff to solve the clog problem.  The majority of it is water.  If a solution of cleanser or anything else for that matter were too concentrated it might do some damage.  You can put a small amount of salt in a glass of water and drink it without any problem.  If you were to put a cup of salt in a glass of water bad things would happen to your body.  It's the same with the Epson print head.  One needs to strike a balance here.  I don't know what's in the Red liquid that you mention so I can't render a decision.
Logged

Eric Gulbransen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 298


never surrender


WWW
« Reply #1129 on: January 09, 2013, 06:50:16 PM »
ReplyReply

Thanks Alan. 

as for your concoction, what would I use as the detergent?

6 parts water
2 parts isopropyl alcohol
2 parts glycerine (or glycerol as it is more commonly called)
1/2 part detergent
Logged

chaddro
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 112


« Reply #1130 on: January 09, 2013, 06:58:17 PM »
ReplyReply

Hey Eric & Alan... this foodservice cleaner brought to mind BEAM oven and grill cleaner. Comes as a bright orange liquid.

From the MSDS the main ingredients are sodium hydroxide & sodium metasilicate, but I have no idea if those would be save for the print head or for removing ink. It IS a good grill cleaner!
We sells these where I work at and I can get a couple ounce packet of it if you think it's usable.

https://www.messnerinc.com/catalog/p/BAE-1/Beam_Oven_Grill_Cleaner_-_Gal/

MSDS available at that link.
Logged
Alan Goldhammer
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1573


WWW
« Reply #1131 on: January 10, 2013, 07:18:02 AM »
ReplyReply

Thanks Alan. 

as for your concoction, what would I use as the detergent?

6 parts water
2 parts isopropyl alcohol
2 parts glycerine (or glycerol as it is more commonly called)
1/2 part detergent
I would try Dawn as it's good enough for the oil spill coated birds!
Logged

Alan Goldhammer
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1573


WWW
« Reply #1132 on: January 10, 2013, 07:20:16 AM »
ReplyReply

Hey Eric & Alan... this foodservice cleaner brought to mind BEAM oven and grill cleaner. Comes as a bright orange liquid.

From the MSDS the main ingredients are sodium hydroxide & sodium metasilicate, but I have no idea if those would be save for the print head or for removing ink. It IS a good grill cleaner!
We sells these where I work at and I can get a couple ounce packet of it if you think it's usable.

https://www.messnerinc.com/catalog/p/BAE-1/Beam_Oven_Grill_Cleaner_-_Gal/

MSDS available at that link.

Sodium Hydroxide is lye and very corrosive.  I would not use this at all.  It probably would get rid of the clogs in the same way that drain cleaners open up clogged drains but it would also do much damage.
Logged

snsandrze
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3


« Reply #1133 on: January 10, 2013, 04:56:14 PM »
ReplyReply

While doing a search for maintenance on a 4900, which, by the way, I don't even own one, I came across this product and it seems as though it might benefit others who are looking for a maintenance print mode (holiday mode). http://www.karmaplus.com/howWorks2.html. seems like a good idea for all Epson users to avoid long periods of not printing. I believe it's Windows only.

Steve
Logged
kdphotography
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 686


WWW
« Reply #1134 on: January 10, 2013, 05:32:01 PM »
ReplyReply

While doing a search for maintenance on a 4900, which, by the way, I don't even own one, I came across this product and it seems as though it might benefit others who are looking for a maintenance print mode (holiday mode). http://www.karmaplus.com/howWorks2.html. seems like a good idea for all Epson users to avoid long periods of not printing. I believe it's Windows only.

Steve

HHC does work well when you're out of town for a bit.  It is indeed Windows only.  I use a dedicated laptop to schedule daily nozzle checks; inexpensive 10" roll of lustre in the printer.

ken
Logged

JeffW
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 49


« Reply #1135 on: January 12, 2013, 09:48:54 AM »
ReplyReply

Have had some success and some loss with the suggestions in the post. About a month ago I was ready to take my 4900 in and have a new head put in or scrapped. I thought Cyan and VM would never come back. Finally I bought the bullet and ordered new ink, these channels were running low, and windexed the hell out of the head. Amazingly Cyan and VM came back. Smiley Unfortunately i had a lot of drop out on all of the other channels. Through cleaning and power cleaning i have gotten them all back except, PK and LK. If you look at the attached images, 1st is when I first started about a month ago. I have tried cleaning and power cleanings and got to 2nd. Ready to trash the machine again. After a couple of weeks, I ran another test strip and it has gotten better. Now I am up to 4th. There are actually other test strips in between. What is amazing is that on each test strip, they "slowly" are getting better. I am hoping by next June I will have a working printer, that is until Cyan and VM drop out.

It is interesting in that I had this phenomenon, once before after a windex session. Maybe 6 months ago. I thought I had ruined the head. With frustration I let the printer sit for 2-3 weeks, then tried one more test strip and all of the PK and LK had come back. Very interesting, very frustrating.

I just want to print again.
Logged
Mark D Segal
Contributor
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6767


WWW
« Reply #1136 on: January 12, 2013, 10:56:46 AM »
ReplyReply

Have had some success and some loss with the suggestions in the post. About a month ago I was ready to take my 4900 in and have a new head put in or scrapped. I thought Cyan and VM would never come back. Finally I bought the bullet and ordered new ink, these channels were running low, and windexed the hell out of the head. Amazingly Cyan and VM came back. Smiley Unfortunately i had a lot of drop out on all of the other channels. Through cleaning and power cleaning i have gotten them all back except, PK and LK. If you look at the attached images, 1st is when I first started about a month ago. I have tried cleaning and power cleanings and got to 2nd. Ready to trash the machine again. After a couple of weeks, I ran another test strip and it has gotten better. Now I am up to 4th. There are actually other test strips in between. What is amazing is that on each test strip, they "slowly" are getting better. I am hoping by next June I will have a working printer, that is until Cyan and VM drop out.

It is interesting in that I had this phenomenon, once before after a windex session. Maybe 6 months ago. I thought I had ruined the head. With frustration I let the printer sit for 2-3 weeks, then tried one more test strip and all of the PK and LK had come back. Very interesting, very frustrating.

I just want to print again.

There are a number of issues to unpack here:

(1) How often do you use the printer. A 4900 is a "production machine". It was designed for people who would be using it on a regular basis. Regular here means daily or at worst several times a week. If it sits unused longer than that channels fail to produce ink on paper. Whether that it all drying, clogging, clogging where, or pressure drops, I have no idea, but the end result is totally predictable - at least from my experience owning this printer from the first day it hit the Toronto market. Recall, I reviewed it for this website. When I travel for long periods of time, I can totally count on about 45 minutes of cleaning work to get it back to normal. That I didn't know when I wrote the review - no way I could have at that point, but now that this experience is accumulated, it's good to confirm that Epson was right when somewhere at some time they said it's a production machine. Sure is.

(2) Who ever told you that you should use Windex on the printhead? Certainly nobody from Epson did - at least officially. When I last discussed with an Epson representative what one could do to improve the whole cleaning story in case of major "f...ups", he referred me to the manual. Yes, of course, I'm one of those who does RTFM, so my question was about what happens "beyond the box" and that was the answer I got back. In other words, they aren't sanctioning user-intervention on cleaning beyond what they themselves think it legally and commercially "safe" to let users do. This is standard manaufacturer behaviour dictated by their legal departments and they follow it to a "T". Once you start doing things beyond the manual, from a user perspective you are into "experimental territory" and you can expect ANY outcome, all the wisdom from various contributors on this thread notwithstanding.

(3) There is a technique to repeated cleanings once you are into what I would call a "stubborn clog" situation. A stubborn clog is one that doesn't get remedied after using the stronger of the two cleaning options for a channel pair activated from the printer controls (not your computer). Once a stubborn clog happens, Epson has advised, as reported in numerous places on this website, to always run a test print that uses all the channels between each cleaning cycle. This helps to keep ink flowing and to minimize the risk of problems from air that can be triggered by repeated and powerful cleaning. I have found it makes a huge improvement to the efficiency of clearing the printer.

All the above said and done, the next basic question is whether you have called Epson for servicing. It could be that a service call, as expensive as they can be, may still be cheaper than replacing the printer. And if replacing the print head is necessary, you would be best advised to have this done professionally anyhow.
Logged

Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
JeffW
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 49


« Reply #1137 on: January 12, 2013, 07:38:39 PM »
ReplyReply

I actually looked at the marketing hype below which is taken directly from the epson website:

Our advanced Epson MicroPiezo TFP print head is capable of producing higher quality prints, at speeds up to twice as fast as our previous generation. And, with our latest ink-repelling coating and auto nozzle verification technologies, clogged nozzles are virtually eliminated.

No where on their website does it say this should not be used by the casual or occasional user and clogs are virtually eliminated.

Unfortunately this machine is beyond warranty and at the time of doing a windex I was to the point of trashing the machine. All the posts i have read here and alsewhere is that the normal response from Epson is to replace the head. I was desperate and not wanting to put more money down a rat hole. Having said that I was able to get cyan and VM to clear and work just great with the use of windex. They were unable to clear by power cleaning, printing and the standard cleaning. Nothing would open them up.

I think the the black colors will come back like they did in the past. We are in a low humidity time right now, hovering around 40%.
Logged
Mark D Segal
Contributor
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6767


WWW
« Reply #1138 on: January 12, 2013, 08:29:01 PM »
ReplyReply

Yes, they did say clogged nozzles are virtually eliminated. And correct, their published material doesn't emphasize regularity of use as being important, but I've seen this reported elsewhere.

Perhaps your use of Windex fixed one issue, but from what you describe in your previous post, I'm wondering whether it caused another. You should not have to use a printer for months to get it back to normal. Makes no sense to me.

40% humidity is low and that may be part of the problem (would your room be even less humid?). The specs say 20 to 80%, but the "print quality guarantee" range is 40% to 60%, so you are at the low end of the "quality guarantee" range, whatever that means. Try running a humidifier in the room and see if that helps.
Logged

Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Blue moon
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 92


« Reply #1139 on: January 13, 2013, 09:17:48 AM »
ReplyReply

I actually looked at the marketing hype below which is taken directly from the epson website:

Our advanced Epson MicroPiezo TFP print head is capable of producing higher quality prints, at speeds up to twice as fast as our previous generation. And, with our latest ink-repelling coating and auto nozzle verification technologies, clogged nozzles are virtually eliminated.

No where on their website does it say this should not be used by the casual or occasional user and clogs are virtually eliminated.


I must agree with you...i had a very detailed conversation with epson sales in the Uk before i purchased a couple of 7800's. i was particularly concerned at that point about clogging issues as i had come from the 3000 range with plenty of hassle ...the reply from epson professionals was that the 7800 could comfortably be left unused for a month at a time without any problem of clogging whatsoever....relax...in other words..
then in time, i was so keen to get into the 900 range because of the capability of dual colour and b/w (which i achieve now with an imageprint rip on the 7800...) and the marketing HYPE from epson was that a 900 would comfortably reduce the incidence of clog  much more than in the earlier series ,but it seems to me , as i have said all along that the 900 series was never capable of producing a better clog result than earlier machines...quite the contrary in fact.  it simply isn't designed intelligently enough even though it has nano bits.. .never did epson caution me in writing or verbally that the 800 or 900 series had to be used every other day....that seems to have popped up as an "after event "when epson realised what they had unleashed on their customers.. I know that i was never told about frequency issues which seem now to be an issue for epson...does that actually mean that material sales information was wilfully withheld at point of sale ? Interesting. Alan has told us that ammonia does not have surfactant (clog busting ) characteristics and i would agree with Mark that you are on your own risk when you step away from using epson ink as your cure....epson need to step in with their own reputable reliable surfactant fairly soon i would guess..the day of using ink and maintenance tanks to clear solid clogs is yesterday....

Mark...you have readily admitted in an earlier thread that relying on Epson service is not always practical or feasible when one lives away from larger centres ....you might continue reminding people of that when you fall back on the "ring epson " recommendation..for those of us living in beautiful rural places.a huge flaw in epsons marketing strategy is selling machines to people who are in no position to avail of epson service facilities...i would advise that Epson products are impractical to own unless one can actually price in a service warranty and product repurchase when the warranty has expired...that is the real cost of trouble free printing with minimal ink wastage.. (I had a financial  and risk assessing background in an earlier life..)

ALAN
A little surprised that you recommended to Eric to use DAWN a second time as his surfactant for his"recipe" . Are you hoping that adding the humactants  ie glycols glycerols will do the trick on Erics first recipe attack of DAWN and ISOPROPYL (plus water of course ). ....or is Eric  going to increase the DAWN  concentration this time ?  I have ordered PhotoFlow   from Kodak and will give it a try as a surfactant on another power flush program....you never know ! ..   might leave out the Isopropyly for the moment as i am inclined to agree with you that its not for clogs but more for bacteria issues..
ERIC...you mentioned a german product that you thought might be worth a try...have you a link to it ? Don't mind giving it a go with power flush and syringe after I've tried Photoflow  ...thats only if you are not going to try it...
Logged
Pages: « 1 ... 55 56 [57] 58 59 ... 74 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad