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Author Topic: Epson 7900 from the inside - out  (Read 262766 times)
Larry Heath
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« Reply #1140 on: January 13, 2013, 10:42:58 AM »
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Here is a link to a PDF document you might fine entertaining.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.168.3094

I am sorry but I don't seem to be able to figure out how to setup a direct link to the PDF file. So you will have to use the link above and then click on the small PDF symbol on the left of the page up at the top.
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Larry Heath
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« Reply #1141 on: January 13, 2013, 11:04:14 AM »
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Here are two patents that is also instructive on print heads.

Ink Jet Print Head

Print Head Two
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 11:08:02 AM by Larry Heath » Logged
Mark D Segal
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« Reply #1142 on: January 13, 2013, 11:59:53 AM »
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Mark...you have readily admitted in an earlier thread that relying on Epson service is not always practical or feasible when one lives away from larger centres ....you might continue reminding people of that when you fall back on the "ring epson " recommendation..for those of us living in beautiful rural places.a huge flaw in epsons marketing strategy is selling machines to people who are in no position to avail of epson service facilities...i would advise that Epson products are impractical to own unless one can actually price in a service warranty and product repurchase when the warranty has expired...that is the real cost of trouble free printing with minimal ink wastage.. (I had a financial  and risk assessing background in an earlier life..)


Frankly, whoever you are in reality, I have nothing to "admit" or not "admit". I would always recommend contacting Epson if I read a post from someone having trouble with their printer that doesn't indicate whether they have done so. Epson actually makes it very easy to do this - especially Epson America's Pro-graphics tech support. I don't know how well this works outside North America, but any time I've had issues with Epson products, and trust me there have been - I've been using their printers since the 2000P hit the market thirteen years ago, I have been able to communicate quite readily either by phone or through their on-line support system and they have been very helpful, particularly with in-warranty products. When it comes to out of warranty products, well, they're out of warranty and then it's another discussion.

Even for in-warranty service beyond the first 30 days, their usual policy for anything that can't be handled over the phone is to exchange the printer with a refurb rather than sending a service-person, because the time and cost of that often exceeds the residual value of the printer; and I must say for Epson, based on very recent experience with one of their office "all-in-ones", they will support this policy for however many printers it takes until you have one that works properly. Heck, if I call a serviceman to look at my washing machine or dishwasher the fee for walking through the door is 85 dollars and then the repair costs start mounting - if they don't tell you outright to save the money and buy a new one. Getting personal service at your doorstep these days is just darn expensive, like it or not.

Now going out of warranty, they aren't obligated to us, and they obviously don't think it's practical and economic for them to maintain their own service network for doing actual machine repairs at peoples' premises. So they outsource it. Many manufacturers do likewise for the same reasons. The outsource arrangements are often sub-optimal from a user perspective, because depending on where one lives, accessing such service whether by the machine being sent to them or them coming to us can be very expensive. I'm well aware of all that, but I would still advise contacting Epson for all the help they are prepared to provide, because for Prographic support (all the x800/x900 printers) even out of warranty they will still provide email and phone support. Beyond that service can be costly no matter how arranged. So yes, I agree with you, one needs to think of all that in making a purchase decision, but I don't believe any of this varies much over a wide range of bulky high tech items one buys. Fr example, I know if my large, expensive high-def TV goes belly-up, given who made it and where they service it from, I'll be buying a new one.

Now let's turn to the subject you raise about the extended warranty. I still do have another life - consulting on financial evaluation, risk analysis, legal underpinning and structuring of major projects. As we both know, this is effectively an insurance policy, so insurance principles apply. There is a premium set by the company based on the cost of trouble, its probability of occurrence and the number of policies they expect to sell. So if they are rational economic actors, which we must assume they are, it's always structured in a way that they don't lose. And if they happen to lose in one year because they bet wrong, they'll make it up the year after. From our perspective as purchasers of such insurance, we need to make judgments about whether it's worthwhile. It's a bit of a crap-shoot; on average pretty-much a zero-sum game apart from their profit margin on the premiums, but for an individual it all depends on what happens - it's either a complete waste of money or a wise decision, which one gets to know after the fact. None of this makes an Epson printer impractical to use. It just complicates decision-making with options and each of us need to optimize based on our expectations. FWIW, I pondered this decision long and hard, and haven't bought such insurance, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Time will tell.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Eric Gulbransen
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« Reply #1143 on: January 13, 2013, 12:34:33 PM »
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ERIC...you mentioned a german product that you thought might be worth a try...have you a link to it ? Don't mind giving it a go with power flush and syringe after I've tried Photoflow  ...thats only if you are not going to try it...

Hell of a thing, retracing your web-search footprints a week after they've been cleared from browsing history.  Not sure how I finally ended up there again but here is a link to the conversation that I had found, Blue moon - Lothom's accidental discovery   You may be the only one of us who could buy such a cleaning product.  Please share your results!


Later this afternoon I am have the sorrowfully unfortunate, but also curiously fortunate opportunity to take apart a 7900 with a "fatal error" printhead in it.  But this printhead, unlike our "Oh Canada" printhead, has never been removed from it's mother ship - The Epson Stylus Pro 7900.  THIS printhead was destroyed by power cleanings. 

I can't wait to see what evil lurks inside this machine.  But first I have to ride my bicycle to the top of a mountain and back.  Stay tuned.
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Blue moon
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« Reply #1144 on: January 13, 2013, 04:08:37 PM »
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Mark
No problem letting you know who i am . My name is Matthew Deegan and I live in Connemara Ireland right on the Atlantic ocean.My email address is mattdeegan@eircom.net...nice to meet you formally.....i have followed a lot of your contribution with great interest..and appreciated too..
I am in agreement with you that warranty solves the problem for the customer and transfers the risk right back to Epson.....the lower the risk premium is the less of a problem Epson will think their machines are going to cause them and of course vice versa..if a customer cannot afford the risk premium then repairs are definitely going to hurt...where i live people replace troublesome machines with new ones rather than going the repair route...we are just too isolated to do otherwise....unless you can fix it  yourself....a lot of my neighbours are just gifted innovators and try to fix out of necessity what they can...
I would not (really regret to say ) purchase a 900 as it stands and would not purchase its successor without a warranty...that simple...i would also factor in a 3 year lifespan on the machine and include that in my costs were i to use it commercially including warranty costs....market forces will eventually decide whether the consumer will accept the warranty fees or not...
On the other hand from reading and rereading this thread from start to now it seems to me ( and i have my own personal limited experience as well ) that the 900 has not mastered the art of troublefree printing...you are personally happy that you were cautioned that you must use your 900 every other day or your printing could be troublesome ....is that so ? I was never cautioned to that effect and i have purchased several machines over the years.....the marketing HYPE that Epson delivered to me was simply untrue.......and unwise....why did their pre launch testing let them down so badly....
Put it to you this way....
I was assured by Epson UK pros that 900 could be left unused for 30 days at a time without turn on......it was in their view a better machine than 800 as we had new anti coagulant material lining the Piezo chamber walls and pairs would look after a problem of a singular nozzle...no more macro cleaning...the rest is history ...I had a sales career once and if a customer produced evidence that i had supplied sales literature (or verbally either ) as part of the sales process which  had no basis in fact ,it was a money back situation straight away....and not a refurb replacement machine either...money back and no questions asked...sales claims need substantiation..
Where i have difficulty with your approach Mark and with great respect to you personally as I very reluctantly express my opinion,is that your approach SEEMS  to me to be more often than not to take the Epson side without listening hard enough to the large middle ground of frustrated printers who just cant all be wrong either.... unless i am totally misreading this thread a large number of contributors have not had their expectations met by Epson and Epson i am sure would not wish to be exonerated  from real life production problems either as they will need to be able to encourage their old reliable customers to take the risk and purchase more Epson printers in time...this thread must be invaluable to Epson scientists as it is letting them know what they need to do better...none of us are perfect and Epson are certainly no exception.And it will ultimately be Epsons problem to solve..
There have been incredible contributions from Eric and his team of very knowledgeable team mates and we all feel that our problem is being shared between us....I just feel at times that your approach could be more encouraging to our brave frontiersmen who are doing all this heroic work for us. Last week you made  a throw away comment that the lads should be leaving it to the pros in Epson because none of our guys were up to the specialised problems that the 900 has to offer.....even though you were not including me ,i found this remark just a little condescending and i could not agree with your sentiment...This is just my own personal opinion and has taken me months to formulate...Sorry...

This is a Guinness book of records thread for a very good reason ...i believe and i know deep down that you will be the first to congratulate the guys when they get the breakhrough that we all want to see happen...Finally , Epson will be dam glad to see an end to this particalar episode too...
Nice to meet you formally Mark
Matt
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #1145 on: January 13, 2013, 05:02:13 PM »
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Hell of a thing, retracing your web-search footprints a week after they've been cleared from browsing history.  Not sure how I finally ended up there again but here is a link to the conversation that I had found, Blue moon - Lothom's accidental discovery   You may be the only one of us who could buy such a cleaning product.  Please share your results!
I would not use this on an Epson print head.  I just looked up the composition datasheet which is in German and this is much stronger stuff than the 3M degreaser that was mentioned earlier.  It contains potassium hydroxide at concentrations similar to what is in some oven cleaners and drain openers!  It does have a coconut derivative which is found in a lot of shampoos.

Alan
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Blue moon
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« Reply #1146 on: January 13, 2013, 05:37:11 PM »
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I would not use this on an Epson print head.  I just looked up the composition datasheet which is in German and this is much stronger stuff than the 3M degreaser that was mentioned earlier.  It contains potassium hydroxide at concentrations similar to what is in some oven cleaners and drain openers!  It does have a coconut derivative which is found in a lot of shampoos.

Alan
Alan
Thanks....great to see that your grasp of German allowed you to realise that the printer would have been
"shampooed "with this solution.
Relief..
Matt
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #1147 on: January 13, 2013, 07:35:41 PM »
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<<Mark No problem letting you know who i am . My name is Matthew Deegan>>

Hi Matt, very good to meet you formally too. It is nice to communicate with "real identities".

I can't take "Epson's side" on any of this, because I don't know what it is. I wish they did otherwise, but they have chosen not to participate in this thread so they haven't said anything to side with or against. As well, I respect what people here are trying to do, and I too am watching with interest to see whether at the end of the day the work Eric and others are doing actually resolves how to deal with apparently fatal clogs. I do have a sense that trying to unpack Epson's technology and improve upon it could be extremely challenging, if not heroic, but I think the folks on this thread know that too and nothing I said was intended to be condescending to anyone. 

The problems a number of people are facing are obviously real, expensive and very frustrating. But at the same time, I do have a great deal of respect for the Epson corporation, which shouldn't be mistaken for "taking their side" on every issue. They pioneered the development of technologies that in a few short years are allowing us to deliver images with an ease, quality and cost that was simply unthinkable to most of us as recently as a decade ago. They have to have poured huge amounts of money and technological prowess in numerous fields of applied science to do this, and this is a commercial enterprise whose results you can read in their annual reports online. Yes, problems there are, and they need to be addressed, but let us not lose sight of who we are dealing with. That's one matter of perspective.

Another matter of perspective is the scale of the trouble relative to the overall success. You say there is a very large middle ground of disgruntled printers. Do we have any idea how many x900 printers world-wide Epson has sold to how many customers since they were introduced about four years ago? To make any kind of manufacturing these days worthwhile, it must be on a significant scale - and recall we are talking world-wide. So what percentage is the number of people experiencing fatal clogging problems compared with all the satisfied users? You are questioning the maturity of the technology, but I think the real issue is whether the trouble ratio is beyond the expected, (and how the *expected* is calculated, because every manufacturer expects a certain amount of trouble - there is no perfection). Several years after the 7900/9900 they issued the 4900 which builds on the same technology, so are they dumb enough to be flogging a dead-horse, or is it a bit much to claim that the technology was not ready for *prime time*? Recall, they need enough confidence in the market to sell printers so they can sell ink for years after. These considerations are also relevant to the matter of advertising hype. One would need much more information than we have on-hand to assess whether in the context of the broad international experience of this technology over the past four years their advertising is misleading or not. Please don't mistake this as a defense of Epson - I'm just saying what one needs to know before landing on a conclusion about truth in advertising or lack thereof.

You challenged me on these issues, so I am responding that I think it's relevant not to lose sight of the larger picture in coming to judgments about what this thread is dealing with. As for the solution to the particular issues folks here are facing, I hope for two things looking forward: (i) that Epson itself finds and shares a consumer-friendly way of de-clogging apparently hopeless printers, and/or (ii) a brand new discovery along the lines Alan and others are trying to facilitate comes out of this thread and solves it. Either or both could indeed be very useful to any of us some time in the future.

Nice to chat with you Matt and I hope to have cleared-up misunderstandings.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #1148 on: January 13, 2013, 07:59:44 PM »
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Hi Eric I just stumbled apon your long adventure from last year to now and see the saga has continued. My name is Matt (might be too many Matts in here) I live by the Bay area, Ca not to far from you and was just in Arizona working a full day on my buddies (Aaron) Epson 9900. I am kind of like your buddy thats the tech guy, I have some technical background and mechanically can rebuild anything you throw at me. He bought a used and fully working 9900 off Ebay from a east coast print shop that had no problems and even included a test print to him. He paid good money to have it shipped to AZ. Within a week he had started to get a small clog. So he did some cleanings, then power and so on, it got worse and then he called Epson. He gave them the rundown on what was going on and how his 9800 never did this and they listened and gave the old reply "wow thats weird this printer has not had any reports of people having this kind of problem, we can refer you to a company that can help you."
 
You can see where this is going, they refer him to DecisionOne. He make's an appointment a week later the tech comes out has a capping station, wipper assembly and Head. Here's the best part, I just happen to be there in AZ at the time and at his house, we left it all together so the tech doesn't say something like "sorry I can't touch it becasue you have it in parts." So he gets there and gets to work on it, replaces the head and capping station/wipper and fires it up but he gets some error, he shuts it down and does some more stuff fires it up and still no good, he's checking his computer and looking at the field service guide but no luck. 10-20-30 minutes go by finally he says the main board is bad and he doesn't have one and that he will have to order it and come back out. My buddy and I are thinking we were having no such error earlier but the tech had no clue of that since he wasn't there when I was working on it. So he proceeds to pull out all the new parts and put the old parts back in. He gets it all together and say's sorry I can't do more but I cant do much without a working main board. Now my Aaron is pretty ticked you could imagine after waiting all that time to get someone to come out a fix this thing that he has barely gotten to use. I'm thinking this can't be hold on let me think. Then I though what the heck I will pull the main board and go over it my multimeter and see if there is a surface mount fuse or something that could have burned out. I get it out before the tech leaves and I ask the tech if I can get the main board working give us you cell number we will call you back. He leaves as I continue working on it checking all things over carefully and couldn't find one bad component. So frustrated that I couldn't find anything wrong im looking at it and think well last ditch effort would be to remove the cmos battery to try and get it to reset anything in the memory. So I pulled it and let it sit for a minute and put it back in and the thought lets reinstall the battery and try turning it on. It powered right up no error codes and no problems. We call the tech and he was right down the street getting some lunch and said he would come back after he eats. Thirty minutes later he's back installing all the parts again. He fires it up no issues does some more tuning, platen gap and so on and Aaron has a working printer. No problems he's back in business with a working printer just less ink and $2200 less in his pocket.

Fast forward from November 2011 to August 2012 and 150 prints later.
One day in August he gets ready to do some printing and does a nozzle check, see (picture 1) it has a few small spots on one channel that could use a cleaning. So he  puts the printing off for a couple days till he has more time to mess with the problem. So a few days later he thought what the heck I have a 24x36 print I have to do it will most likley clear up as I print, maybe its just some air in the head. So after the print he did a nozzel check (picture 2) and it got worse. So you can see his head is missing just part of one channel, its missing a few lines in the second picture. Then after he tried multiple cleanings, power, and sscl it went completley out minus one line at the top of the channel and 1-2 on the bottom see (picture 3). So there it sat less than a year old on the second head and not working again, weird could lightning strike twice, same as last time more cleanings more clogging.

So I happen to be out in AZ this past week and I ended staying at his house for two days working on nothing but his printer mainly. While I was working on his I did all sorts of cleaning with reverse flushes with solution CLF007+ and distilled water only to have the original channel go blank completely. Then after more flushing, soaking and multiple head removal/installs nothing improved. I took apart and cleaned and inspected the damper assembly and couldn't find anything wrong, I even swapped two dampers to see if the missing channel would switch to another channel but no luck . At one point I had the head installed and it came up with the error 1A39. I removed the ribbon cables from the head and re-powered it up and the error went away. Now he has a nice printer weight that has less than 350 prints thru it and empty ink tanks from all the cleanings, power cleanings, SS and you know the drill. Now we are at the cross roads of what to do next. I was very close to renting a van and bringing it back up to Norther California with me but I wanted to have him let the head soak for a few days to a week and see if that would help loosen things up. I did check his capping station and pump and everything inbetween but everything is good.

I even tested the seal on his capping station by parking the head on the station and then testing the seal by creating vacume with a syringe hooked directly to the black tube that goes to the pump assempbly. You know the one that has all white cam lobes that decide what channel routes to the pump that creates a vacume to pull ink out of the head while its in the cleaning process.  The thing that stinks about the two colors per section of the head is that when it does a pair cleaning the suction pulls from both channels and not one so the unclogged head will be the only one releasing ink into the capping station while the clogged channel will resist the suction. My thought was to maybe crimp the ink line right at the entry into the damper assembly of  channel thats not clogged that is paired with the clogged head. That way it creates resistance to the suction being applied to the unclogged head and forces the more suction to the clogged channel and helps clear it. Just a thought.

 I even watched with the side cover off when it would do a test nozzel print and could see the background light shade down a bit as the head would spray the ink, and one thing I noticed was that it didn't spray at one point but looked as though it was generating a smoke effect almost like it was a mist that would float away from the paper instead of a fine spray that it normaly is. Anyhow I am also determined to finding why it clogs and if there is a way to recover a clogged head or if it fails internally without any recovery. Im almost leaning to the fact that when it starts to clog the clog makes that nozzle self destruct to the point it wont ever spray or pump again.
 
 
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 08:19:50 PM by Higgy » Logged
Eric Gulbransen
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« Reply #1149 on: January 13, 2013, 11:39:08 PM »
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Hey Alan depending on the shampoo they used that German oven cleaner could be ok.  Fran Tarkenton swore by Johnson's Baby Shampoo.



..alright I'm kidding.  Nice work.  I still don't have my hands on all the ingredients of your latest concoction.  Sorry.  But I did order the 3M cleaner.  They only deliver it slowly though, you can't rush ship it (some sensitive chemical law or something).


Listen Blue moon, that's one of the most thoughtful, respectful displays of disagreement/agreement that I think I've read, ever.  Well said, well done.  That would have taken me months.

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Eric Gulbransen
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« Reply #1150 on: January 13, 2013, 11:59:00 PM »
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Higgy, we need to meet.  I like your ideas of specifically sucking fluid through one part of one channel, rather than both (or actually just the clear color).  The one thing I feel better about though is sucking fluid up through the face of the printhead, from behind.  As you know from the back of a printhead you can access one side of any channel you choose.  Plus the passages only get larger as ink flows backwards through the head.  All experiments aside though, we are wasting our time until we find a solution (like, a liquid solution) that will break up dried ink without compromising the many different materials in the head.  That will be key. 
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Higgy
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« Reply #1151 on: January 14, 2013, 02:01:11 AM »
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Yes I agree on the reverse flow and sucking fluid from the face of the head as well. My only worry is when doing so you have to make certain small particles like lint or debris from the air that can land in the container of liquid cleaner your using aren't pulled into the front nozzle's along with the fluid cause then your going to get some more clogging. I also thought you could always take an old capping station apart and make a small desktop cleaning station for the head that could seal up against it while your cleaning as well as you could pull liquid thru the capping station head via the black tube that runs to the pump for that shared channel as you use a syringe on the nipple side of the head and put a rubber plug over the other shared nipple to stop it from pulling air. Not sure if that makes sense but I see it in my mind. Maybe I can draw something up later but im trying to think of ways to minimize creating clogs and treating it as if its in a clean as possible environments so as to not create more issues and have a controlled test.
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« Reply #1152 on: January 14, 2013, 07:40:41 AM »
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The reverse flow approach has a lot of merit I think.  A couple of thoughts here, I think the big issue is how to make sure that the clogged material doesn't reclog the print head.  If it's a case of some kind of particulate forming on the print head, the cleaning solution would need to break it up (dissolve is not a really good term to use here).  The power cleaning that the printer employs is probably a combination of pressure and heat (the print head does get warm as the nozzles fire) which tries to break the clog up and push it through.  The fatal clogs are probably particles that are just too big.  If one is drawing cleaner back through the head one would want a gentle solution so that there is minimal chance of head damage.  Simple soaking may not be good enough (and I think this has already been tried) as a lodged particle won't go anywhere.  I think the solution components that I posted back in post 1125 will be gentle enough on the print head and that maybe a pre-soak prior to the reverse draw of the cleaner might also be a good idea (say 30-60 minutes to make sure that the outer part of the head is acclimated to the cleaning solution.

Another interesting point is past experience with Windex (FORMULA) which has a touch of ammonia in the mixture.  The base detergent in Windex is sodium lauryl sulfate and the ammonia is probably there to buffer the solution and make it slightly basic.  I don't know whether the pH of this solution is important or not and whether it has an effect on the clog.  Certainly my proposed formula is much stronger than Windex in terms of the composition.

As an aside here, I did some work on a highly potent detergent-like molecule from bee venom for my PhD work.  I don't advocate using mellitin in these solutions however due to it's cost (and Sigma Aldrich probably won't sell it to anyone on this list unless they are a certified lab researcher as Eric has already found out).  My thesis adviser's research group had done a lot of research on various long chained detergent like molecules and maybe some of these might be options as well.  I'll have to think about this some more.

Alan
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« Reply #1153 on: January 14, 2013, 09:06:49 AM »
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You are obviously outside of warranty new or extended..how old is the printer...heavily used ?
My printer is 4 years old.  I purchased it in December 2008. Started using it in February 2009. I run about 3 rolls of 100 ft canvas through it a year.  That's it.  So Sad!


In terms of inks used i wonder have you been getting through as much llk and green as your other inks...?
Nope.  Green is the least used for sure.  Not really sure about llk.  I use a ton of that one on my 4880 so you would think I would use a ton of that on the 9900 too because I print similar stuff. 

1 do you do b/w as much as color...llk is there for lowering bronzing in b/w prints as you know..
No, I print mostly color. 


2 would you use green much either....i gather its more for graphics people than photographers...but i have no idea myself.which side of the fence are you on ...?
I don't have much use for green it seems.

3 if you had problems with 2 colors in the same pair a guess would be the air seal itself but not so in this case.
I don't really know what the cause is.  I have had someone come out and clean it and I changed the wiper blade and nothing.  I cleaned it in the power cleaning mode when you turn it on in service mode if that makes sense.  I did that so much that a brand new 350 ml thing of green ink is now 50% full.


4 have you ever vibrated your green or llk carts in any way
Not regularly, no.  I just shook my inks when installing them slightly.

My own little theory is that the Piezo channels and nozzles are bombarded by underused pigment from above and recyled resins from below beyond the capacity of the Nano Nozzles to deal with over time...I would be very keen to see Epsons next design model to replace the x900 series. 

I think you are right.  I think this is a design flaw for sure.  There is no reason other than that that this printer should have done this.  I am a very light user at most. 

Anyone want a steal on a ton of ink, lol?

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Alto
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« Reply #1154 on: January 14, 2013, 11:08:56 AM »
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Hi All

As Epson are so good at making nozzles many in their next series of printers they could have a separate set to spray cleaner at the print head as it or before it docks or when the wiper blade cycles.

Just a thought it could be 2 channel and spray the red and then neutralise it with clear.?


Jon

btw epson you heard it hear first
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 04:12:13 PM by Alto » Logged
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« Reply #1155 on: January 14, 2013, 03:40:52 PM »
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Ok, so here's where I am with my 9890.

I had a clog in the Y channel, with about 30% of the nozzles clogged. Tried cleaning, power cleaning, SS cleaning and nothing changed.

Called Scott at American Inkjet Systems (who has been very helpful) and got some of his cleaning fluids. Tried spraying the capping station per Scott's suggestion with CPL 007+, no changes. Then Scott suggested soaking a paper towel in CPL 007 and parking the head over it for at least 5 hours. This, I feel was a mistake. The head sucked up some fluid and I think it broke some of the clogs free which when I did a cleaning proceeded to ram themselves into a bunch of new previously unclogged nozzles. I now have 8 clear nozzles on my Y channel. Every other colour is perfect.

Scott is sending me some cleaning carts but I think the odds of anything happening with this clog is slim to none. If I were to try and fix this again I would first run the cleaning carts and then try the paper towel trick hoping that whatever clogs are dislodged from the nozzles would be broken down by the cleaning fluid the head is loaded with. As is stands, I don't think there's enough free nozzles to ever be able to clear the head and lines of the ink and fill the head with cleaner.
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Higgy
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« Reply #1156 on: January 14, 2013, 04:43:22 PM »
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I guess all this depends on if the individual ever so tiny nozzles are actually clogging or they are failing. I think it would be awesome if you could have maintanance cartridges filled with a water based solution that is filled with microbes that feed off the ink and pigment stuck in the head and you let the microbes do the unclogging. Then say after 48 hours or so you put the regular ink taks back in and flush the hear with a initial fill and your good to go. All this will omly work if the nozzles still working as they should and you can get microbes or nano bots to do the tiny work. Just sayin
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #1157 on: January 14, 2013, 04:47:02 PM »
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I guess all this depends on if the individual ever so tiny nozzles are actually clogging or they are failing. I think it would be awesome if you could have maintanance cartridges filled with a water based solution that is filled with microbes that feed off the ink and pigment stuck in the head and you let the microbes do the unclogging. Then say after 48 hours or so you put the regular ink taks back in and flush the hear with a initial fill and your good to go. All this will omly work if the nozzles still working as they should and you can get microbes or nano bots to do the tiny work. Just sayin
I doubt that the polymers Epson use are biodegradable by microorganisms.  Besides it would take a lot longer than you think for this to do any good even if it were true and then you would also have to worry about a biofilm forming on the inside of the print head that would lead to further problems.  Most of the cleaning approaches are antimicrobial in nature to prevent this from happening.  Nice thought though.
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #1158 on: January 14, 2013, 04:49:33 PM »
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Called Scott at American Inkjet Systems (who has been very helpful) and got some of his cleaning fluids. Tried spraying the capping station per Scott's suggestion with CPL 007+, no changes. Then Scott suggested soaking a paper towel in CPL 007 and parking the head over it for at least 5 hours. This, I feel was a mistake. The head sucked up some fluid and I think it broke some of the clogs free which when I did a cleaning proceeded to ram themselves into a bunch of new previously unclogged nozzles. I now have 8 clear nozzles on my Y channel. Every other colour is perfect.

Scott is sending me some cleaning carts but I think the odds of anything happening with this clog is slim to none. If I were to try and fix this again I would first run the cleaning carts and then try the paper towel trick hoping that whatever clogs are dislodged from the nozzles would be broken down by the cleaning fluid the head is loaded with. As is stands, I don't think there's enough free nozzles to ever be able to clear the head and lines of the ink and fill the head with cleaner.

I don't know what they use in their cleaning solution but it points to the basic problem of having and ink clog of some sort inside the print head.  If you cannot break up the clog then what happens is exactly what you observed, the clog gets displaced only to reappear somewhere else.  I think what we are all trying to figure out is how to break the clogs up into tiny enough particles so that they come through the print head without doing damage.
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« Reply #1159 on: January 14, 2013, 06:39:34 PM »
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You are obviously outside of warranty new or extended..how old is the printer...heavily used ?
My printer is 4 years old.  I purchased it in December 2008. Started using it in February 2009. I run about 3 rolls of 100 ft canvas through it a year.  That's it.  So Sad!


In terms of inks used i wonder have you been getting through as much llk and green as your other inks...?
Nope.  Green is the least used for sure.  Not really sure about llk.  I use a ton of that one on my 4880 so you would think I would use a ton of that on the 9900 too because I print similar stuff. 

1 do you do b/w as much as color...llk is there for lowering bronzing in b/w prints as you know..
No, I print mostly color. 


2 would you use green much either....i gather its more for graphics people than photographers...but i have no idea myself.which side of the fence are you on ...?
I don't have much use for green it seems.

3 if you had problems with 2 colors in the same pair a guess would be the air seal itself but not so in this case.
I don't really know what the cause is.  I have had someone come out and clean it and I changed the wiper blade and nothing.  I cleaned it in the power cleaning mode when you turn it on in service mode if that makes sense.  I did that so much that a brand new 350 ml thing of green ink is now 50% full.


4 have you ever vibrated your green or llk carts in any way
Not regularly, no.  I just shook my inks when installing them slightly.

My own little theory is that the Piezo channels and nozzles are bombarded by underused pigment from above and recyled resins from below beyond the capacity of the Nano Nozzles to deal with over time...I would be very keen to see Epsons next design model to replace the x900 series. 

I think you are right.  I think this is a design flaw for sure.  There is no reason other than that that this printer should have done this.  I am a very light user at most. 

Anyone want a steal on a ton of ink, lol?


Kristi,
I am genuinly sorry to see the fix you find yourself in !
What strikes me from your latest post is the amount of extra investment that is at risk when your machine becomes unusable.......$1200  ink ,imageprint licence ..( i think i paid the bones of $2000 for my licence ).plus all the extra ink ,tanks ,that you are forced to use/lose in a vain effort to unblock a bad clog.....not nice....
What also hits me hard is if you dont do b/w and strong green prints why are you letting them (llk and green inks cartridges) lie idle in your printer with no outlet for them except down the spit tank in an effort to keep llk and green nozzles moist...with 8 channels instead of 10 ,your ink costs are down 20% straightaway...and your regular clean routine would be better able to look after the nozzles that are used all the time..
I am definitely learning from your experience and will try to remember your situation when i buy again !  SO...
My next printer demand list will be as follows...
1 is this printer ok if not used say...1 week....4 weeks etc. what volume of printing has this machine been tested for to establish min/max production levels for consumers ?..what written independent evidence do you have (manufacturer) to substantiate your claim..is this printer rated for durabilty like say fridges are for energy efficiency
2 Is there a review site where i can readily see the experiences to date for this printer from existing consumers...why not ?
3 is there a software package (windows/mac )available to activate the printer for "away " periods...that exceed your recommended levels of dormancy....
4 are my ink requirements properly matched to this printer...are there unnecessary ink options with this printer..
   If so ...why so..was i asked what my ink requirements are ? Were ink recommendations offered to me ?
5 is there an ink agitation program built in
6. Can i easily maintain the park station wiper blade dampers myself and what are the costs to me for these parts.

7 in the event that a nozzle permanently blocks ....can this printer fall back to replacing a blocked nozzle with a spare standby built-in nozzle unit....
8 most importantly, is the nano nozzle technology being serviced by an unwashed and unmodified wiper blade system ...or has the nano technology been (modified )downgraded to match existing hygiene standards ?
9 is there a reputable tried and tested clog busting solution available for purchase ...what is the MSDS for this solution and what is the cost of it..what written evidence is there that this solution is reliable
Kristi...
Have you any demands that you would add to my list or would you extract some of my priorities ?
Epson please copy...
Matt






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