Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 ... 61 62 [63] 64 65 ... 75 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Epson 7900 from the inside - out  (Read 383286 times)
Eric Gulbransen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 300


never surrender


WWW
« Reply #1240 on: January 31, 2013, 10:39:14 AM »
ReplyReply

Thanks for the poke(s).

Truth is I screwed up, and I'm really bummed about it.  That's why the quiet.  I grew up reading a poem my mom hung on our wall.  You all know it too.  Something about two roads diverging in a wood, and me taking the one less traveled.  Sometimes I love her for that poem, other times I wish I grew up illiterate.  I've been a builder since my early 20s.  That means five days a week I walk through life solving problems with the 28oz framing hammer hanging inches from my finger tips.  That's the good side of being a builder.  The bad side is seven days a week I walk through life feeling I can solve problems by smashing them.  

I am much better now.  Rarely am I bit by the smash it monster.  But I lost it in that last experiment.  Truth is I only told half the story.  What really happened is worse...

I took the dead green head, filled it with RED, sat it's face in the ultrasonic cleaner, ran it for a while, rinsed it, then installed it.  Everything went fine.  Machine recognized it, set itself back up and was ready to print.  Typically I do pairs cleanings to get ink in the head again, in service mode, which I did this time as well.  I was anxious to see results.  More than usual actually.  In fact this time I was sure there would be a difference.  I didn't know what that difference would be of course, I just knew it would be.  Then the machine stopped me - it asked for another maintenance tank before it could do the pairs cleaning.  As you might imagine, I face this challenge regularly.  Once I worked my way past the maintenance tank warning I was greeted by an LLK cart stop.  I keep one spare of each color so this was not a problem.  ...Until the machine couldn't recognize the new Epson cart.  WTF.  This took some scavenging but finally I robbed a cart with enough ink left to do the pairs cleaning.  ...then I got a Cyan stop.  WTF, again..  I put my new Cyan cart in the machine and got my second cart failure message in the same night.  Can't be I thought, so I put the new cart in my 7900.  Same message.  This really pissed me off, because I don't have any Cyan carts to scavenge for.  So the test is over, just inches from the result I've been working toward for over a year now.  You don't even want to know what that felt like.  I definitely didn't.  

Enter, the framing hammer.

I pulled the head, forced Cyan ink (that I had pulled from an "empty" cart last month) into each channel, then re-installed the head.  I knew under service mode I could force my way past the unavoidable cleanings in regular mode, but I also knew I couldn't print a nozzle pattern.  I created a full page 8x10 doc in photoshop, with vertical bands of enough different colors and shades that for sure each channel would be fired.  This would be my nozzle check.  All bands would be Cyan of course, but at the very least I could tell, tonight, if any of the "green" nozzles were firing.  Genius right?  Yea, no.  Not genius.  Let me tell you something about service mode which you might not know - it's a LOT like walking through life, after work, with your 28oz framing hammer still hanging inches from your finger tips.  Yes you can swap PK for MK in service mode, and yes you can avoid the unavoidable cleanings that regular mode forces the machine to run.  Yes you can print in service mode too.  You can do a lot of things in service mode that you can't do in regular mode - including even forcing your way past some menu stops which would otherwise dead-end you.  That kind of makes you feel like you're smarter than the machine, after a while.  Trust me you are not.  In regular mode the machine steps in, kind of like a big brother.  It warns you of things, it reminds you of things, and most importantly it stops you when you should probably be stopped.

I clicked "print".  The machine went to work.  Everything was Cyan.  Bands grew from page bottom like the dream I've longed for.  I watched the first inch with a big smile.  Mind a few drop outs (with no cleanings yet) it seemed my plan was working.  I was confident that at least some of the green nozzles had been rescued from their mummified tombs.  Now I'd let it fill the page with Cyan.  Eventually each channel's true colors would begin to show, but for now I didn't care about color - just nozzles firing.  With 3/4 of the page printed, suddenly everything stopped dead in it's tracks.  A fatal error message flashed across the menu, reading:



- - - This is Japan - - -

- - - Don't look surprised - - -



- - - You knew we were coming - - -



- - - This is no place for you - - -

- - - nor for your hammer - - -



- - - Go home now - - -

- - - and take your fatal error head with you - - -




All air left, my sails went limp.  I shut the machine off and went to bed.  Next morning I strapped on my belt, slid my hammer through the loop, and dove back into a world where I belong.


Since then I've got a few emails, "What's up?  What happened?"  I even got a "Don't give up".
This morning I pulled that print from the machine.  I think now all nozzles did actually fire, at least at the beginning of the print, but slowly it seems most all of the channels ran dry of ink.  The cyan bands get lighter and lighter with each pass that the head made.  After about six inches of printing at least two went completely dry, which I assume is when the head overheated.  I doubt in regular mode this would ever have happened.  Instead the machine would have stopped itself with a menu warning.

So I blew it.  But at the same time, I think I might have solved it.  I won't know until I get another head, and try again.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 09:32:39 PM by Eric Gulbransen » Logged

Mark D Segal
Contributor
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7126


WWW
« Reply #1241 on: January 31, 2013, 12:43:53 PM »
ReplyReply

This is very poetic Eric. It's a great read and I think you would make a wonderful author if you don't end-up cutting it as an expert on making Epson print-heads behave like the proverbial cat with nine lives. I also admire your persistence. I would have given up a multitude of pages ago. That head is probably totally fried by now - if indeed you have broken through all the protections the firmware has built-in to prevent those things from happening. I'd like to recommend a slight re-orientation of your research: the extent of the original green blockage in that head may have been at the extreme end of anything anyone could ever encounter - who knows, maybe 0.1% of total 7900s out there. The more interesting cases are the ones that are "seriously clogged but not irreparably so" because those would represent a somewhat higher percentage of 7900s out there, the people who own them have a serious interest in fixes that go beyond what the manual in all its conservatism (for good legal reasons) tells them to do, and they don't have access to ready service at an affordable price. So if you can attract into your "lab" several printheads that fall into this category and see whether any of the concoctions and techniques you've tried actually do clear them, you'd have a big achievement under your belt.
Logged

Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
sfblue
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 63


WWW
« Reply #1242 on: January 31, 2013, 05:23:45 PM »
ReplyReply

Epson Haiku:

Inspiring Prints
Cleaning cycles be d*mned, 'til
Fatal Head Error

Eric-- even though I've moved on to the Canon 8400 and am quite happy, I'll reiterate a previous thought:  for me, the long-lasting impact of this thread isn't going to be decided by whether or not there is a universal solvent and method to unclog permanently clogged heads.  It's that you've already done a huge amount to help a community of people understand their printers-- including maintenance that can help us avoid that dark place of perpetual clogging in the first place.  I bet we all could put together a one page summary of printer maintenance and suggestions with clogging.  e.g. prior to this thread, I had never heard of a wiper blade or the idea of a holiday mode or how power cleanings without printing in between can actually help to drive the printhead to its fatal error end.  This thread has also inspired some people to successfully repair their printer themselves (which is definitely not for everyone) (and to write bad haiku). 

So don't give up on finding a solution, but for me, the thread has already served a great purpose-- so thanks. 

p.s. I have to think that the only reason why Decision One takes the old printhead back is that someone back at Epson is doing similar experiments to you as well as just examining printhead failures.  It's unfortunate that the cost of official Epson/D1 repair is frequently greater than the cost of a new printer as Epson corporate won't ever good numbers on the failures . . .

Logged
Blue moon
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 92


« Reply #1243 on: January 31, 2013, 05:36:26 PM »
ReplyReply

Eric
Try again
Remember your mum telling you there is no shame in tryng and failing
The shame is in failing to try
Remember Edison and the light bulb
Follow your dream not someone elses
Your a winner
Lets get to act two.......
Matt
Logged
Bob DeBellis
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 19


« Reply #1244 on: February 01, 2013, 11:37:12 AM »
ReplyReply

Hi Eric,
Did you ever create the tutorial for replacing the print head?
Bob
Logged
Eric Gulbransen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 300


never surrender


WWW
« Reply #1245 on: February 03, 2013, 03:45:51 PM »
ReplyReply

Sorry Bob haven't finished it yet.  All the mechanical processes are in the can but I need my partner here to shoot the new head syncing process.  He has a pc, which we need to do this.  I only run Mac.  Normally this wouldn't be a problem but he fell in love six months ago, so i have no genius buddy anymore.  Oh the power of women...  If you can sort your way through the manual for the synching process, I can cover you on the mechanical parts - which are about 95% of the job.  Let me know.
Logged

Eric Gulbransen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 300


never surrender


WWW
« Reply #1246 on: February 05, 2013, 10:20:16 PM »
ReplyReply

I have good news.  No I didn't clear a head yet dammit.  Is that the only good news you could think of?  Come on now let's use our imaginations..

How bout this - I took the money that you fine friends in the struggling Epson X900 clogmonster community have donated to the wiper exchange video fund, and put it to good use.  I purchased a domain and am in the process of building a website based exclusively on successfully running, and maintaining, these X900 printers.  All of the great discoveries that we have explored together will be organized in one special place.  It will be simple, easy to navigate, and use.  So it's kind of cool, the money formed a circle - made it back home.  How many times does that happen in a week..


So I'm putting this out there;  anyone with ideas on what should be included in this X900 site, your opinions are very welcome.  

Like I told Chaddro tonight, I wish I found myself today when I was googling myself silly with clogs a year ago.  Not that I would be any better off, but at least I would have found myself.


The other good news I have is I found my genius.  He showed up for dinner last night.  I nailed him down about shooting the last part of the head changing video, THIS WEEKEND.   Yey Bob!
Logged

Denniswcr
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 28


« Reply #1247 on: February 05, 2013, 11:54:39 PM »
ReplyReply

Looking forward to that video.  Thanks Eric.
Logged
Blue moon
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 92


« Reply #1248 on: February 07, 2013, 06:14:40 AM »
ReplyReply



BUT BUT
I may be wrong...and i need to know that i am wrong....

SO

TO DISPROVE my agitation theories and consequent paranoia ,i will now do a 75 day test with 5 autos AND NO GENTLE PRINTER AGITATION during this test period ....with zero printing of course...the only factors left in the equation this time will be  TURN ON every day and epson k3 inks as usual....i should in theory come back with the same auto results (80% Autos clear first time or even 100% clear first time..) that would then indicate that autos without agitation is at least as efficient or more efficient than autos with agitation....
Will let you know auto results after each 15 day interval so  that the 75 days doesnt feel too long...

I completed my first fifteen day auto test last week......without any printer "rocking " of any description......just turn on printer daily....no printing.......result was completely successfull auto test on the first try after a lapse of 15 days since the previous auto test...so far no advantage for rocking ....
Printer starting up beautifully...16 degrees Celsius 53 humidity.......rather a cold room but the inks seems to like it....dark room facing north...never any direct sunlight.......
Be back after stage two which is now well under way......
Logged
Eric Gulbransen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 300


never surrender


WWW
« Reply #1249 on: February 07, 2013, 09:01:54 PM »
ReplyReply

Which printer is this again Blue moon?
Logged

Blue moon
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 92


« Reply #1250 on: February 08, 2013, 04:36:53 AM »
ReplyReply

Eric
The 7800....
My other 7800 has 3 blocked nozzles for two years..(i think that it has all the hallmarks of the 7900 clogs ).hoping to get Photoflo by Kodak soon and i will make up a concoction on the lines of Alans suggestions (post 1373) ....except i will leave out the isopropyl as bacteria is not a problem here...
My mixture will be :
Kodak Photoflo
Glycol/Glycerol ...(epson cleaning solution)
Water...
Very large syringe as i am going to use a " drip " method directly attached to a nipple on the head....i wonder if the larger syringe might just add a bit of extra gravitational force to the soaking process..a drip feed approach...
Two things i have noticed on this thread so far....
1 power cleans can be powerless when a clogged chamber is heavily outnumbered by free chambers..poor leverage on the clogged chamber..
2 soaking a really bad clog might be better than forcing liquids through the head.
Eric
The work that you have been doing is priceless to us all in being able to " see" the effects of using certain solutions on the gadgetry in the head...and on the clogged inks in that head....you are turning lights on for us.....please do not stop now...
If i cannot free this bad clog on my 7800 will you accept the head as a donation for your valuable research.....i suspect its just the same as the 7900 with 99 % of the nozzles working and 3 chambers packed with hard ink that power flushing cannot get near......maybe you cannot handle the older machines and thats ok too
Matt
Logged
Mark D Segal
Contributor
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7126


WWW
« Reply #1251 on: February 08, 2013, 08:33:21 AM »
ReplyReply

i suspect its just the same as the 7900
Matt


Matt, I believe the x900 heads have twice the number of nozzles per sq.in. compared withe x800 heads, which would likely entrain other design differences as well. Various materials used may also have changed between the models, as one can infer from various announcements and product descriptions seen about the time the newer models came to market. Whether this makes a difference to Eric's research I would have no idea.
Logged

Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Jeff Magidson
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 149



WWW
« Reply #1252 on: February 08, 2013, 09:19:00 AM »
ReplyReply

The 7900 / 9900 have been around since 2008. Lets hope Epson releases new models in the near future that correct these reliability issues. We know they can do it... the previous generation of machines where much better in terms of clogging.

Logged

~ Jeff Magidson
Custom Archival Printing
http://artslidesboston.com
Mark D Segal
Contributor
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7126


WWW
« Reply #1253 on: February 08, 2013, 09:29:57 AM »
ReplyReply

the previous generation of machines where much better in terms of clogging.

No they were not. The 4000 was a clog monster, and the 4800 considerably improved but not ideal either. The only models of the Epson pro-graphics line that have been truly stellar in this respect are the 3800/3880. They hardly clog and they can sit for very long periods of time unused, and still not be clogged on resumption of use. This is quite widely known, so the question is - and I have no doubt Epson knows the answer - why the stellar performance of these models could not be replicated in the x900 series. Clearly some intentional design differences had this side-effect. I have no idea what, however.
Logged

Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Eric Gulbransen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 300


never surrender


WWW
« Reply #1254 on: February 08, 2013, 10:54:46 AM »
ReplyReply

Blue moon, sometimes people contact me offline to talk about their problems.  And sometimes those problems are even about printers.  One guy recently contacted me about his 7800.  He told me his war stories, one of which included reviving it's dead head.  I guess he figured he had nothing to lose so after doing the typical paper towel and windex procedure, he actually removed the head and injected windex into it through the nipple plate in the back.  He used a syringe to do this.  He let the head sit overnight, then installed it again the next day.  His 7800 has printed clog free ever since.

I imagine the difference between printhead generations here may be the size of the chambers.  Being larger in the 800 series heads, maybe this leaves the dried ink more vulnerable to the cleaning solution, whatever it may be.  This is just a guess, I have never taken an 800 series head apart.

This will be a big weekend for printhead exploration.  Yesterday my new Epson carts finally arrived, and also my RED.  Plus I am shooting video of the head syncing process tomorrow, and then taking apart my first "Fatal error message" head.  I will release the video at the same time as the new X900 site.  No champagne, but maybe umbrella girls. 
Logged

Blue moon
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 92


« Reply #1255 on: February 08, 2013, 12:36:49 PM »
ReplyReply

Eric
Good on you
Logged
Eric Gulbransen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 300


never surrender


WWW
« Reply #1256 on: February 12, 2013, 01:56:07 AM »
ReplyReply

Holy hell I just finished a 24hr run at this head changing video production.  For what it's worth, and I'm not actually proud of this fact, I can do a 79/9900 printhead head change - start to finish - in just 35 minutes real time.  But in video time it apparently takes me a lot longer.  This head changing video is 48 minutes long.  I guess I'll have to host it in segments.  Just titles and color correction then I'm done.  It came out well.
Logged

Alan Goldhammer
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1739


WWW
« Reply #1257 on: February 12, 2013, 09:12:08 AM »
ReplyReply

Eric, I see a great future for you as an Epson printer technician!!!
Logged

Denniswcr
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 28


« Reply #1258 on: February 12, 2013, 02:28:17 PM »
ReplyReply

I think that they should hire him as a "production engineer" so he can solve thier problem.  Epson sure can't seem to do it!
Logged
Eric Gulbransen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 300


never surrender


WWW
« Reply #1259 on: February 12, 2013, 07:11:39 PM »
ReplyReply

You guys are way too kind.  and I've never had a white collar job in my life.  What would I do with myself..


The video is DONE.  It's exporting now.  It won't be on our site until the morning though, my upload speed is cripplingly slow.  The new X900 site is up, it's called MYX900.com.  It's an infant now.  It will be a work in progress for some time I imagine.  I plan to add to it regularly.  Please offer any suggestions/questions/requests that you have.  That's how it will grow.  I am hosting the video content for MYX900.com, on vimeo.  They have no time limits with their free account, which is what I am using.  I'd host it on the background of my race site but some have emailed me saying they can't view the format that I hosted the wiper change video in.  Maybe people will have better luck this way.  I hope the site will maintain itself through donations from those who draw helpful knowledge from it.  If it weren't for blind passion none of this would exist.

The video came out very well, almost entertaining.  As involved as the head swapping process is, it'll be easy if you're following this video. 

This is the first video production I've taken on (minus the 3 minute wiper change video) since my gear got stolen over a year ago.  Feels good to be back. 

Thanks for your patience.
Logged

Pages: « 1 ... 61 62 [63] 64 65 ... 75 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad