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Author Topic: Epson 7900 from the inside - out  (Read 263301 times)
bill t.
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« Reply #1280 on: February 13, 2013, 12:22:50 PM »
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Eric, that is just so well done!  When Spielberg sees that, yer outa here, dude!
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Blue moon
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« Reply #1281 on: February 13, 2013, 05:25:36 PM »
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The elephant is finally off my back.

...at lest one of them is.

Remember to go full screen, full HD.   Because why wouldn't you

LEARN HOW TO CHANGE YOUR OWN 7900/9900/11880 PRINTHEAD

I love you too..
Eric
Not in the least bit surprised....its absolutely brilliant.....
Success with knobs on...
Love the damper cap device.....what a clever stroke !
What are you going to get up to next
Well done for all of us
Matt
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enduser
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« Reply #1282 on: February 13, 2013, 05:41:55 PM »
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This:
  http://www.scribd.com/doc/91839121/EPSON-Pro-7900-and-9900-Field-Repair-Guide
might be of some use together with Eric's excellent video.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 05:43:28 PM by enduser » Logged
Eric Gulbransen
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« Reply #1283 on: February 13, 2013, 07:21:03 PM »
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I'm really glad you guys like the video.  Thought about it all day doing the framing hammer thing.  It's not perfect of course, already I see that I left out the part about unplugging the machine after power-down.  I'll have to add that clip and upload it again. 

enduser, thank you for that.

Next project - back to clearing X900 heads again.  I have new found motivation, since I don't have a functioning 7900 anymore.
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Eric Gulbransen
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« Reply #1284 on: February 14, 2013, 09:47:06 AM »
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Interesting - one cornered X900 user in Canada contacted me a week ago asking if the printhead video was done yet.  He told me he had just received his new head from Epson, but that it's part number was different than the part number we have been using.  The part number we have mentioned on this thread many times in the past is F191010.  But his replacement printhead part number is F191040.  When I do Google searches for this different part number I only get results in a foreign language, which Google Translate indicates is Italian.  I wonder what the difference is
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iladi
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« Reply #1285 on: February 14, 2013, 12:07:09 PM »
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Good job Eric. Very well done. I wish you have made  this video last august when i,ve changed my damper assy. You,ve spared me me a lot of mess and emotions.
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davidh202
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« Reply #1286 on: February 14, 2013, 05:59:27 PM »
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Could be he received the wrong head ...  aby normal Shocked
Another possibility is there has been a revision done to the head and given a new code #
« Last Edit: February 14, 2013, 06:03:31 PM by davidh202 » Logged
Blue moon
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« Reply #1287 on: February 16, 2013, 04:48:04 PM »
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I thought these articles from Jon Cone are helpful tips on printer maintenance:  http://www.inkjetmall.com/wordpress/category/maintenance/
...notably on humidity, infrequent printer use, and head strikes.

I haven't had any problems with my 9900, but I also use my 9900 very regularly and humidity levels are kept fairly constant in studio...

ken
Really helpful.....thanks Ken
Matt
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Blue moon
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« Reply #1288 on: February 16, 2013, 06:32:47 PM »
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I'm getting the cold shoulder from Sigma Aldrich on the X-100 order.  It seems automated though, they're asking for documentation confirming this is a business, and they refuse to ship to a residential address.  I'll head underground and work this out another way tomorrow.

Guys
Got the Photoflo from Kodak yesterday !(6 weeks ordered )
Will be " drip-feeding " a  largish mixture about 2 feet above the disconnected head made of gylcol ,glycerol ,(epson clean solution )  Photoflo and water early next week ......down directly through a nipple on the disconnected head.....quickly followed by a back-syringe suck out through the same nipple....in a very gentle way....anyones guess what might happen..
Quite pleased  by the power of gravity generated from  that distance above the head...
Alan ....any idea of the amount of Photoflo that i should start with on experiment 1
Matt
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Blue moon
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« Reply #1289 on: February 16, 2013, 08:04:49 PM »
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Hello there-




 I feel that if you can completely bypass the wiper blade you are setting yourself up for success.


Erik....yes or......  If the wiper blade could be persuaded to have a bath more often..



I also feel that if you can keep something moving through the print head while the print head is not in use (perhaps dial in the cleaning solution that has been mentioned here before) then you are creating a situation where there is a low probability for a clog to form inside the nozzle.

  Erik....Superb idea...

. On the other hand, chamois cloth is much more expensive, but worth it for this stage of the solution process, as a means. Chamois cloth is designed to clean fine surfaces and cutting up the cloth into smaller pieces,  and giving the print head a careful "shoe shine" is what I have in mind.  

Erik...If you could get the head cleaned without too much rubbing.....dont forget that your idea involves doing this often and the less friction the better..
While this is a subtle attempt the long term solution would be a pump with an auxiliary set of nozzles attached to the print head that gently (like 3ml a day gently) pumps a cleaning solution through the print head while the printer isn't in use.

Erik...It happens in water filtration systems where there is a reverse flow of water every 6 hours to clean out dirty filters...its called a " backwash system ".  Would work with printers ...the backwash would need to be a solution based liquid...and indeed the pumps already in the printer could be harnessed to do the backwashing...we would need to bypass the maintenance tank and go directly to a sink if possible....

Really enjoyed going through your concept Erik.....i am going to try doing the same approach but by means of gravity flow and drip feeding....same system as used on patients in hospitals....and of course the old syringe for pulling at the block from the opposite direction...will let you know what damage i can manage....
The beauty of your approach is that it would become a built in automatic self cleansing system.....rather a new concept for an Epson product...
Would love to see you make progress with this new approach...happy skiing....enjoyed vale etc a few years back now....great sports up there....
Matt


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davidh202
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« Reply #1290 on: February 16, 2013, 09:07:28 PM »
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" the long term solution would be a pump with an auxiliary set of nozzles attached to the print head that gently (like 3ml a day gently) pumps a cleaning solution through the print head while the printer isn't in use.

Erik...It happens in water filtration systems where there is a reverse flow of water every 6 hours to clean out dirty filters...its called a " backwash system ".  Would work with printers ...the backwash would need to be a solution based liquid...and indeed the pumps already in the printer could be harnessed to do the backwashing...we would need to bypass the maintenance tank and go directly to a sink if possible"....


Pretty daft idea if you ask me.
Most people here are complaining about wasting ink and a method such as this a surefire way to accomplish that!

Putting cleaning solution through the head at a regular interval means you would be flushing the existing ink out,then the head would need to have the cleaning solution flushed out with ink, and re charged with even more ink before printing. Roll Eyes
That's equates to three times or more the amount of ink going into the waste tank or "down the drain"
Not to mention more nozzle checks done before printing to make sure that there are no clogs or drop outs.

Sorry...
Back to the drawing board!

  
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 09:09:14 PM by davidh202 » Logged
enduser
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« Reply #1291 on: February 17, 2013, 05:11:34 AM »
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What if clogging is just what happens when a nozzle and/or its channel has simply reached the end of its life?  What if clogs begin when a nozzle just doesn't fire anymore?
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Blue moon
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« Reply #1292 on: February 17, 2013, 07:57:06 AM »
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" the long term solution would be a pump with an auxiliary set of nozzles attached to the print head that gently (like 3ml a day gently) pumps a cleaning solution through the print head while the printer isn't in use.

Erik...It happens in water filtration systems where there is a reverse flow of water every 6 hours to clean out dirty filters...its called a " backwash system ".  Would work with printers ...the backwash would need to be a solution based liquid...and indeed the pumps already in the printer could be harnessed to do the backwashing...we would need to bypass the maintenance tank and go directly to a sink if possible"....


Pretty daft idea if you ask me.
Most people here are complaining about wasting ink and a method such as this a surefire way to accomplish that!

Putting cleaning solution through the head at a regular interval means you would be flushing the existing ink out,then the head would need to have the cleaning solution flushed out with ink, and re charged with even more ink before printing. Roll Eyes
That's equates to three times or more the amount of ink going into the waste tank or "down the drain"
Not to mention more nozzle checks done before printing to make sure that there are no clogs or drop outs.

Sorry...
Back to the drawing board!

  
Yes as you say this is drawing board stuff.....but dont knock Erik out of hand either......why ? Well you see you dont really have to let the cleaning system take over either.....for example who says that you need to run your backwash every 6 hours like in a water plant ? Could you run it say once a month if you wish....once a year if you wish.....you will notice that Erik is visualising an adapter unit that will hold both his 7 ink pipes and his 7 solution pipes that all come together at the head ....or at the damper unit.....who says you have to let all the solution pipes take over at the one time either....and run all 7 solutions at the one time .....why not do your nozzle check first and decide that you want to direct your solution pipe at say M only ? Why not have just one solution pipe serving all the ink lines but just one damper at a time being serviced by the solution line......use your solution line at your discretion...this is last resort stuff when you have tried all the hygiene routes and failed...
Now the less ink that needs wasting requires a switch tap that is closer to the head unit and of course the more sophisticated the pipe line adapter unit design plan  would naturally have to be ...totally beyond me to design....i have the gear got for the 7800 to simply pull out the " bold " cartridge unit at the front......put in a solution cart in its place at the front ...i intend permanently fitting an extra pipe line (filled with solution only with its own damper unit ) that runs with the other 8 lines .....pull out the " bold " damper unit....push in the solution damper unit in its place ...the printer will never see any difference as it still has 8 dampers to look after ( requires a chip change out front )....the only ink waste would happen as the solution damper feeds solution directly into the head for that channel only.....when block fixed ,reverse damper and cartridge and off you go......i have seen a lot more ink wasted following Epsons clean and double clean and powerclean and SS CLEAN techniques (plus maintenance tanks )when they use resin coated ink to unblock resin problems....btw Epson would argue that even the bit of ink that you lose from the damper switch is not waste.....its properly used ink lubricant.....there is no waste ever...
To summarise........i personally would see air infiltration as problem no 1 .....an air-sealed ink cartridge kept in your fridge will easily last 5 years without hardening.....some of the more up to date printers are clogging ink after a few months......
Problem no 2 is that Epson has never ever put the slightest time or thought or intelligence into how to safely sanitise  a resin coated wiper blade....as a child my dad would have clipped my ear if i left a paint brush unattended to after the joy and excitement of using a brush to paint....cleaning a paint brush was just boring.....NOT TO HIM IT WASNT.......
Matt
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Blue moon
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« Reply #1293 on: February 17, 2013, 08:12:42 AM »
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What if clogging is just what happens when a nozzle and/or its channel has simply reached the end of its life?  What if clogs begin when a nozzle just doesn't fire anymore?
Such an important question to ask !!
Seem to recall one of Erics Epson connections saying that this is indeed a possibility but in his experience not very likely.....personally , i am very hopeful that Eric will be able to do the business with his " red " bottle......if he does , then we will know for the first time ever that unblockables are beatable........then we could all use " red " and by deduction discover that a nozzle and /or channel was dead........just imagine all the ink ,cleaning solution ,maintenance tanks ,time ,frustrations that Eric would save for all of us with his little  " red test " technique !
Matt
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #1294 on: February 17, 2013, 08:48:25 AM »
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Guys
Got the Photoflo from Kodak yesterday !(6 weeks ordered )
Will be " drip-feeding " a  largish mixture about 2 feet above the disconnected head made of gylcol ,glycerol ,(epson clean solution )  Photoflo and water early next week ......down directly through a nipple on the disconnected head.....quickly followed by a back-syringe suck out through the same nipple....in a very gentle way....anyones guess what might happen..
Quite pleased  by the power of gravity generated from  that distance above the head...
Alan ....any idea of the amount of Photoflo that i should start with on experiment 1
Matt
Photoflo is extremely gentle (as are virtually all non-ionic detergents).  Photoflo contains between 5-10% detergent according to the MSDS and is also 25% or so propylene glycol so you need to figure that in as well in terms of what you mixture is.  For normal film work (eliminating water spots from processed negatives) the dilution is 1:200 but that's going to be way too weak for what we are looking at here.  I suspect that you can begin with a 5% amount of photoflo and see if that works (this would give you a final detergent concentration of 0.25% which is similar to what one gets when washing dishes!).  Having never seen a head in real life, I wonder if they are immersible in a cleaning solution without doing any damage.  This way one could use a warming bath to improve the cleaning process (much the same way as warm/hot water helps remove crud from dishes without scrubbing).  Eric might have a better feeling for this.
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Blue moon
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« Reply #1295 on: February 17, 2013, 09:11:31 AM »
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Photoflo is extremely gentle (as are virtually all non-ionic detergents).  Photoflo contains between 5-10% detergent according to the MSDS and is also 25% or so propylene glycol so you need to figure that in as well in terms of what you mixture is.  For normal film work (eliminating water spots from processed negatives) the dilution is 1:200 but that's going to be way too weak for what we are looking at here.  I suspect that you can begin with a 5% amount of photoflo and see if that works (this would give you a final detergent concentration of 0.25% which is similar to what one gets when washing dishes!).  Having never seen a head in real life, I wonder if they are immersible in a cleaning solution without doing any damage.  This way one could use a warming bath to improve the cleaning process (much the same way as warm/hot water helps remove crud from dishes without scrubbing).  Eric might have a better feeling for this.
Alan
Much appreciated....will stop to think before i jump in
Matt
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Blue moon
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« Reply #1296 on: February 17, 2013, 05:59:37 PM »
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Yes I agree on the reverse flow and sucking fluid from the face of the head as well. My only worry is when doing so you have to make certain small particles like lint or debris from the air that can land in the container of liquid cleaner your using aren't pulled into the front nozzle's along with the fluid cause then your going to get some more clogging. I also thought you could always take an old capping station apart and make a small desktop cleaning station for the head that could seal up against it while your cleaning as well as you could pull liquid thru the capping station head via the black tube that runs to the pump for that shared channel as you use a syringe on the nipple side of the head and put a rubber plug over the other shared nipple to stop it from pulling air. Not sure if that makes sense but I see it in my mind. Maybe I can draw something up later but im trying to think of ways to minimize creating clogs and treating it as if its in a clean as possible environments so as to not create more issues and have a controlled test.
Higgy
How are you getting on with your new desktop cleaning invention......would make a very clean safe environment to pull solution backwards through the head.....how would the reinvented capping station get its supply of solution to suck into the station ?
Thanks
Matt
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Blue moon
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« Reply #1297 on: February 17, 2013, 06:17:32 PM »
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Hi All

As Epson are so good at making nozzles many in their next series of printers they could have a separate set to spray cleaner at the print head as it or before it docks or when the wiper blade cycles.

Just a thought it could be 2 channel and spray the red and then neutralise it with clear.?


Jon

btw epson you heard it hear first
Yes as the head returns to the parking station a simple spray gun squirts ...........
  the wiper blade and bottom of the head simultaneously......
You are then told to replenish your little solution reservoir when the solution level in the tank drops below a minimum level.....sounds just like what we do every day to deal with dirty windscreens in our cars.....
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Blue moon
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« Reply #1298 on: February 17, 2013, 06:22:19 PM »
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Ok, so here's where I am with my 9890.

I had a clog in the Y channel, with about 30% of the nozzles clogged. Tried cleaning, power cleaning, SS cleaning and nothing changed.

Called Scott at American Inkjet Systems (who has been very helpful) and got some of his cleaning fluids. Tried spraying the capping station per Scott's suggestion with CPL 007+, no changes. Then Scott suggested soaking a paper towel in CPL 007 and parking the head over it for at least 5 hours. This, I feel was a mistake. The head sucked up some fluid and I think it broke some of the clogs free which when I did a cleaning proceeded to ram themselves into a bunch of new previously unclogged nozzles. I now have 8 clear nozzles on my Y channel. Every other colour is perfect.

Scott is sending me some cleaning carts but I think the odds of anything happening with this clog is slim to none. If I were to try and fix this again I would first run the cleaning carts and then try the paper towel trick hoping that whatever clogs are dislodged from the nozzles would be broken down by the cleaning fluid the head is loaded with. As is stands, I don't think there's enough free nozzles to ever be able to clear the head and lines of the ink and fill the head with cleaner.

At the risk that you have replied later.....did you get your cleaning solution....did you get success ?
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Blue moon
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« Reply #1299 on: February 17, 2013, 07:52:29 PM »
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Chaddro,
All these places that sell these cleaning "solutions" always have a disclaimer that the product will not be effective if you have burned out the head. Even Ericks guy "Oh Canada" had this disclaimer on his site.
I may be wrong but I believe that most people that have serious "clogs" and have done multiple power cleans have already done too much damage to their head, and cleaning is no longer an option. It all boils down to just how much repetative, consecutive cleaning, will do damage to the head.
 
I hope I'm wrong...
David

David
Even if you were wrong you are still right in so many important ways....i print rarely but i am constantly reminded to power clean on the 7800 ...i have been told that the printer is programmed to remind us to do power clean even though i know that the printer is spotless....there is a program running behind the scenes that is looking at
 average not exceptional situations...this program is guessing when i need a power clean and i am quite happy that it has no real idea of the condition of the head day to day....you are all aware that i have spent the last year passing through nearly perfect auto clean tests month after month.....guessing here but i was probably reminded
A dozen times during the year to power clean....bizarre
So ....totally separate to Erics breakthrough (hopefully ) I know you will agree with me that the whole area of power cleaning and its associated risks and procedures will need to be carefully spelt out to all of us....we need education on power cleaning no matter how successfully and separately we crack the clogs issue...
One thing confuses me on the 900 and the power dilemma......we know that the 900 does not charge the piezos when it power cleans ( except in SS mode )......so if piezos are dormant when fluid is sucked out of the head where i wonder could the damage to piezo unit actually come from ?
Matt
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