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Author Topic: Epson 7900 from the inside - out  (Read 310712 times)
Blue moon
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« Reply #1400 on: June 23, 2013, 05:41:41 PM »
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I just spoke to an Epson person. She was very good at going through the possible costs if I let Epson techs repair my 7900. The range of costs cited by the person that I spoke to was between $150 and $2000. I did not give my credit card number to this person as I did not want to give Epson a blank check to use in emptying my credit card account. As you can imagine, I am very interested in this thread and give much credit to the OP. I am usually able to repair problems of the kind described in this thread. Age and various injuries have caused my back to be in about the same shape as my 7900.

I generally respect copyrights. However, my respect for Epson has reached a nadir. Epson seems to be quite willing to take advantage of its customers, and I do not want to enrich Epson. I only wish that my 7900 was as reliable as my 7600. The 7600 had its share of problems, but they are as nothing compared to my 7900. Good luck to those of you who who get out their tools and start digging around inside of their 7800 printers.

Joe
Joe
thanks for encouragement and hopefully you will be back on track with your 900 soon....

yes Eric is amazing and has been a breath of fresh air to all us...

Matt
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Blue moon
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« Reply #1401 on: June 24, 2013, 05:21:45 PM »
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Hi everyone
More failure....
PHOTOFLO 200
ISOPROPYL
EPSON CLEANING FLUID

ALL MIXED TOGETHER...NOT WORTH A CURSE IN TERMS OF UNBLOCKING A CLOGGED  NOZZLE !!

Alan thanks for helping with the compound advice ...appreciated...very rigourous test indeed...no damage done at least...

Will try a good dose of SIMPLY GREEN NEXT
IF THAT FAILS WILL GO ON TO ...
HOUSEHOLD AMMONIA AND ISOPROPYL MIxture

CALLING MY MATES IN THE STATES....WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE MAIL ME A VERY SMALL BOTTLE OF WINDEX...WILL REFUND WHATEVER COSTS ARE GLADLY....THAT WILL BE MY FINAL BASIC FLUSHOUT ATTEMPT...
So far I can only advise people not to waste good money on cleaning gimmicks....including Epson cleaning products....it may be that my bad three nozzles are electrical failures that could never be cleared  by any cleaning products....but I will see this exercise right through to the bitter end !!
KEEP YOUR WIPER BLADE CLEAN AND MOIST...YOUR PARK STATION THE SAME ...
DETERMINED MORE THAN EVER..
MATT
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amc-photo
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« Reply #1402 on: June 25, 2013, 08:06:11 AM »
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Windex is just Windolene anywhere else in the world. I don't think it will fix a dead channel.

I own 10 Epson large format printers. 5x 7890 - 3x 9890 - 1x 11880 - 1x 7800

If you completely loose a channel and can't get it back with SSCL, colour pair cleaning, power cleans etc, you are unlikely to get it back without getting a new print-head installed.

Our 7890's have all been fine, the oldest one is nearly 3 years old and they are all in constant use in our busy LFP print shop. The 9890's are another story, all bought around 2.5 years ago. One is on it's third print head, fortunately the second one was fitted while still under warranty.  The first time the cyan channel went, the second time it was magenta. Another is on it's second print-head (cyan channel went). The third one is still going OK but I know it will most likely need a new print-head within the next year.

We also had a 9700 that was not able to be fixed as Epson had no print-heads in the UK. That one lost the cyan channel permanently. I gave it to our service engineers for spare parts.

I just had the third print-head fitted in one of them this morning and spoke to our service engineer asking him why the print-head always needs replacing every time we have totally lost a channel. He said that basically, the channel loose the ability to draw ink through. Doing cleaning pushes (or sucks) the ink through at more pressure than when printing. So although you may get a a few nozzles printing after doing intense cleaning, it is unlikely to fire those nozzles during normal printing. He said he didn't know why this happens, it just does and always with these *900 and *890 machines.

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Garnick
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« Reply #1403 on: June 25, 2013, 08:30:19 AM »
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I've just spent the last few minutes searching for postings/threads where someone mentioned they were potentially not going to be able to purchase a replacement 7900/9900 print head in Canada.
Does anyone know what happened with this? Are these replacement print heads available to purchase still (especially in Canada)?

Sorry to be so late with a response, been away from this thread for a few days. Of course I don't know where you are located here in Canada, but yes, you can indeed still purchase the 7900/9900 print heads. If you think you might want to try an installation yourself you can get the head through a Toronto company named Access at http://www.access.on.ca/. Their website isn't as full of information as you might want, but you'll find the phone numbers etc there and you can give them a call. Ask for Eddie Pascua. He's very helpful, I just ordered 3 wiper blades. One warning though, be prepared for a 6-8 week wait for the head. Epson seems to be back-ordering all of their parts recently, as you may have read on this thread a while ago. I talked with Eddie about this yesterday. My 9900 has had 3 print head replacements in 3 years, all under warranty. Various other parts and issues as well, but enough said about that. The warranty extensions were costly, but as it turned out, good insurance. I'm tempted to order another print head just to have on the shelf. The warranty extensions were $1050/year, so for another $250 I have a back up print head. The only problem with that scenario is that Epson only warranties the head for one year from date of purchase, so if I don't need it for a year it's not warranted at all. However, my understanding is that if it's not installed by a certified Epson tech the warranty is void regardless, so it's basically a saw off situation. Not sure what I'll do yet. A 6-8 week downtime would be disastrous for my business.

I hope this is of some help to you and good luck. Keep us informed.

Gary 
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Blue moon
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« Reply #1404 on: June 25, 2013, 10:32:05 AM »
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Windex is just Windolene anywhere else in the world. I don't think it will fix a dead channel.

I own 10 Epson large format printers. 5x 7890 - 3x 9890 - 1x 11880 - 1x 7800

If you completely loose a channel and can't get it back with SSCL, colour pair cleaning, power cleans etc, you are unlikely to get it back without getting a new print-head installed.


I think you are right....am quite happy to re-head the 7800
But using this  head as an experiment....one of our recent contributors got his 7800 going again with windex....so his problem obviously was not electrical /mechanical...i suppose that i cannot guarantee that my nozzle clog is an electrical or mechanical issue.....wish i could....really delving into the respective strengths of cleaning solutions on the market
Its such a long shot......i am progressively upping the " caustic " emphasis to see if it is a clog on this individual nozzle....
Will use the windolene as a final "swansong "
Thanks again for the advice
Matt
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amc-photo
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« Reply #1405 on: June 25, 2013, 10:38:18 AM »
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Blue moon, where are you based?

Our service engineers often have second hand print-heads that they take out of machines that have other faults. I paid 120 for the last second hand one we got off them.

98/7800's are workhorses compared to the new gen machines!
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Blue moon
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« Reply #1406 on: June 25, 2013, 12:25:29 PM »
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Thanks AMC-PHOTO
simplest address on the globe
MATT DEEGAN
MOYARD
CO GALWAY
IRELAND..
ITS ACTUALLY CONNEMARA
ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL PLACES ON THE GLOBE

THANKS FOR ALL

MATT

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amc-photo
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« Reply #1407 on: June 26, 2013, 07:10:21 AM »
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Our service engineers don't have any second hand 9/7800 print heads at the moment. I called them this morning. New ones are 400+VAT.

They also said you could send it to them and they could try to clear it for you. That way (if it's fixable) you could put the same print head back in without the worry and hassle of coding a new one in properly. They charge 60+VAT per hour. They've never charged me more than an hour labour for any job, even print head replacements. I can PM you their details if you're interested.
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Blue moon
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« Reply #1408 on: June 27, 2013, 02:41:01 PM »
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AMC- PHOTO
Thanks
Please do as they sound like a very reliable contact
Thanks again
Matt
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Blue moon
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« Reply #1409 on: June 27, 2013, 04:27:46 PM »
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AMC-PHOTO
forgot to add in last post that i have been quoted 250 for a new head from Unicomp
Surprising how prices vary so much
Thanks anyway for going to the trouble of finding out
Much appreciated
Matt
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amc-photo
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« Reply #1410 on: June 28, 2013, 10:23:23 AM »
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If Unicomp have one at 250 grab it. That's what they used to cost until about a year ago when Epson hiked the price. Unicomp must have had some stock from before the price hike.

I still have one 7800 that is still going strong after 5 years. If you get a good one of these they just keep going. It's only had a maintenance kit done twice and is still on the original printhead. I just checked it's usage count and it's done 795,000 cms.
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davidh202
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« Reply #1411 on: June 28, 2013, 10:39:37 PM »
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Did anybody actually bother to read the title of this thread that Eric started?

To the people that have continuously interjected enough x800 crap into this long enough winded thread, (namely Blue Moon), you need to take your shaking experiments and X800 head expertise, and start your own thread! This is known as hijacking a thread.  The x800 series is not the x900 series, never was, never will be ...

Respectfully...
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JohnHeerema
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« Reply #1412 on: June 29, 2013, 05:12:11 PM »
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I wonder if I might ask a question that is not strictly related to 9900 head clogs, but is related to the other insides of the beasts?

We've had some flooding here, and my 9900 took on water up to about 2.5 inches (6 or 7 cm) from the bottom of the main printer body. The maintenance tank bays got soaked, and the ink cartridge bays too. I've dried everything out, and it seems to be working fine, except that it occasionally reports various ink cartridges as being bad (they are fine if I remove the cart and wipe the contacts down). I haven't taken it apart, but going from memory from Eric's fine head replacement video, I am thinking/hoping that the other things that got wet might have been mostly plastic, like the damper assembly, and probably OK.

Any thoughts from someone who's seen the inside of a 9900?

Thanks!
John
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Eric Gulbransen
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« Reply #1413 on: June 30, 2013, 03:28:08 PM »
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Hello brothers and sisters, it's been a while.  Sorry

Never being one to embrace (admit) defeat, it's been more comfortable for me to consider the ever ambitious clog clearing journey of my genius buddy and mine, in a state of re-grouping rather than abandonment.  But really these heads destroyed us.  Ironically it was that last head which I truly think I cleared - but also damaged - which killed it for me.  Something in the message that flashed across this 9900's screen "FATAL ERROR" really sank my heart.  So much money, so much time, I was destroyed.  But I also learned from that experience that we can indeed affect an un-clearable clog, just not safely. 

...At least not yet. 





Walking past my dismantled 9900 reminds me each morning of my unfinished work.  And it reminds me to think.  Which I do.  As a result here is where I am at:


1 - don't apply pressure manually to these heads.  Too hard to regulate, too sensitive, too dangerous.
2 - don't force your way past the machine's automated safety warning-stops by operating in maintenance mode.  Without warning-stops, you instantly die.
3 - don't just keep doing power-cleanings (which after two or so most likely won't work anyway).  Print in-between cleanings.
4 - when you feel like you are pouring very expensive ink down a very expensive drain, you most likely are.

Typically people contact me through myx900.com now.  Most are questions or requests, some are thank you's, a few are donations, and every once in a rare blue moon (not that Blue Moon) I get a very helpful suggestion.  One of these suggestions has had me thinking now, for quite a while, about a new approach..

John Schwaller, an Epson 4900 owner who found himself cornered by un-clearable clogs one unfortunate month, went back and forth with me for a while about what he should do next.  We talked about lots of stuff, some of which was not appropriate because apparently the 4900 has a different menu system/options/functions which I cannot relate to because I've never had my hands on one.  I offered to send John my cleaning carts (I only have four) if they would help him.  Maybe some cleaning fluid too.  But rather than listen to my suggestions John tried something on his own.  What a fool?  After way too many power cleanings, standard cleanings, pairs cleanings and so on, John performed a few ink charges.  Talk about flushing ink down the drain, my lord I commend his enthusiasm.  But check this out - this revived his 4900 back up to 100%.  And check this out on top of that - this ink charging process does not fire the nozzles, therefore it does not heat the heads, and therefore I am left to assume that it is the safest process left to pursue. 

My idea is to remove our Epson Ink carts all together, and our maintenance tanks.  Purchase a complete set of cleaning carts and a resettable maintenance tank.  Fill the carts with Epson's RED cleaning fluid and do a few initialize ink charges.  Follow this by firing a nozzle pattern.  Since the solution is red, it will be readable.  Once the machine fires 100%, replace the RED with WHITE and do one last ink charge.  Maybe two for good measure.  Reinstall our original Epson ink carts and do one last ink charge.  Back to printing.


...at least that's the idea  Smiley

One last detail which I have not solved yet is how to get a 79/9900 to do an ink charge through the menu system (or any system).  John tells me it's an option on the 4900 in the menu system.  I don't find that option on the big machines.  Yet.  If I can solve this last hurdle I am prepared to buy the carts, I already have the cleaning fluid.  If this works I am willing to put this together as a kit, we can ship it all over the planet.  I have been burned a few times by now with people requesting things, promising things, offering things - and then disappearing.  Whatever, plenty of $hit heads in this world, it's not gonna get me down.  If this works we can come up with a system to cover potential losses.  What we first need to do is get it to work.  Like I said I'll buy the carts, what I need now is a head.  If you've used my video to replace your head (which thankfully a good number of people from different parts of this planet successfully have by now), and you have an old (potentially repairable) head sitting in your drawer, mail it to me.  If I clean it I'll mail it back to you.  $hit heads need not apply. 


It's just clogged ink after all.  Be nice to finally beat this.  ...batter up

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Eric Gulbransen
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« Reply #1414 on: June 30, 2013, 03:37:03 PM »
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John, sounds like your contacts are corroded.  Pull out an error messaged cart and check it's contact points.  It is possible that sliding the cart in and out temporarily clears the corrosion and gives you what you need to run.  But it's temporary.  Do you see any corrosion evidence on the cart's contacts?  If this is your problem you might be able to put something on the contacts of an old cart and install it, to help clean the contact points in the machine which you cannot reach (if you indeed cannot reach them, I have not checked)
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kdphotography
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« Reply #1415 on: June 30, 2013, 05:09:26 PM »
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Eric,

I'm going off memory, and I may even be mixing up different Epson printer models, but I think the command/setting you want is "Initial Fill."  Might need to access through Serviceman mode?

ken
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JohnHeerema
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« Reply #1416 on: June 30, 2013, 06:18:20 PM »
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Quote
John, sounds like your contacts are corroded.  Pull out an error messaged cart and check it's contact points.

Thanks for the message Eric!

I think that the contacts were just getting condensation on them, 'cause the ink bays were still pretty damp. It turns out to be pretty easy to get at the contacts, and to wipe them with a bit of contact cleaner, so (cross fingers) the ink carts have been registering properly for a couple of days now.

I was more wondering about stuff getting wet where you can't see it without taking the panels off. Maybe I should just start unscrewing stuff, and see for myself if there's anything that's not plastic in the lower three inches or so of the machine.

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Eric Gulbransen
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« Reply #1417 on: June 30, 2013, 08:00:30 PM »
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Good for you John.  Hope it works out.  I'd be seeking a source for compressed air if it were me, maybe blow the bottom of that beast out.

Interesting Ken, I did a search in the repair guild and get this - could be it:

Pro 7900 and 9900 Field Repair Guide

Maintenance
Tube Exchange: Sequence, Counter Clear
Wiper Exchange: Sequence, Counter Clear
Pump Exchange: [Enter] Start
Press Pump Exchange: [Enter] Start
Selector Exchange: Sequence, Counter Clear
I/H Exchange: Sequence, Counter Clear
Head Exchange: [Enter] Start

Cleaning:
Std. CL1
Std. CL2
Std. CL3
Init.Fill
SSCL
A/B (C/M)
C/D (Bk/Lk)
E/F (Or/Gr)
G/H (LLk/Y)
I/J (Lm/Lc)

Parameter:
Update: InkParameter: Init. Fill: (Set, Reset) (Reset, turns off the initial fill)
Display: (nnnn)

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JohnHeerema
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« Reply #1418 on: June 30, 2013, 08:48:38 PM »
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I'd be seeking a source for compressed air if it were me, maybe blow the bottom of that beast out.

Did that, thanks. Gotta love compressed air. My air line just reached to the printer, so I blew everything out right away, which is how I discovered that the ink carts aren't sealed - when I blew the water out of the seams along the edges of the carts, they puffed right up.

It turns out that after a flood, there's all kinds of uses for compressed air!
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Denniswcr
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« Reply #1419 on: July 01, 2013, 07:47:31 PM »
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For ink charge, Eric, check page 306 of the Field Repair Guide.

Dennis
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