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Author Topic: Epson Exhibition Canvas Recommendations  (Read 22406 times)
Randy Carone
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« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2012, 04:41:53 PM »
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Jordan,

The Media Type should be set to Premium Luster 260 (edit - thanks Dano). The profile you referenced will only affect color output, not printer settings. What Media Type did you choose in the Epson driver, not Photoshop?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 11:22:34 AM by Randy Carone » Logged

Randy Carone
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« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2012, 04:53:45 PM »
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I have an 11880 on Imac quad snow leopard. printing thru epson driver as
described on pdf w the profile
SP11880_Exhibition_Canvas_Gloss_PK_v1 pdf
Nozzle check is clean

I used the epson profile- lustre setting -.11 on color density 2880dpi no color management,
color matches what I normally do on lustre and the premium satin canvas. This is showing on legacy files mostly in the black or dark grey areas
The black area seem to show a grainyness on parts of the canvas weave that are raised.
I adjusted platen gap to standard, , (there is no auto as stated in the pdf) and it seemed to
help a little but still some grainyness (- density) in black. It was worse on wide platen gap.
Does this canvas have to be run at 2880 and any suggestions? I built my own profile w monaco and x rite strip reader using canvas setting and it was worse.
I am redoing w lustre setting.

On a good note I do not have any problems spraying coating.
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jreederphoto
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« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2012, 05:45:24 PM »
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Hi All,

Seems to be printing well now. Not sure if it was setting platen gap to "widest" or making sure there was no curl on paper edge. I've printed about 3  40"x50" prints with no issues.

For the other 7800/9800 users out there here are my settings:

Epson 9800 with Photo Black ink, current firmware, latest drivers
paper used: Epson Exhibition Canvas Satin

paper type set to Prem Luster (260)
-6% color density
No Auto Cut
Platen Gap set to "Widest"
paper suction: standard
Using the same color profile I use for Premium Luster (260) - a profile from Bill Atkinson
High Speed Off (maybe fine with it on but haven't checked yet)
Rendering Intent Perceptual

Color is not perfect, I'm sure it would be better if I had a profile made...but overall pretty nice.

Also tried b/w with Advanced BW Mode, seemed to work fine too.

Thanks for the help

Jordan
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lmsolo
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« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2012, 08:31:39 AM »
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Hi All,

I am just in need of a bit of clarification. I use an ipf 8300 and am setting up to use Epson Exhibition Gloss Canvas. I am still unclear on the best media settings etc. to use with this paper. I saw a recommendation of special 6. Any guidance is greatly appreciated.

Lisa
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Landscapes
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« Reply #44 on: April 16, 2012, 06:38:46 PM »
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Special 6 will get you the matte black ink which won't ever dry on the gloss canvas.  I would assume that special 1 would be the best.  From my understanding, 1-5 uses the Photo black for glossy, and 6-10 is for matte black.  I used special 6 for the matte canvas to make my custom profile.  Just by using the setting though won't get you accurate colors.  It might be close enough for what you do, but building a custom profile might be what you need to do.  I tried the satin canvas and it curled up on the edges quite bad and after two head strikes that causes the printer to shut down and then a cleaning cycle, i gave up on this canvas.  It is far too stiff for my liking anyway.  The exhibition matte is better in my opinion.

Hi All,

I am just in need of a bit of clarification. I use an ipf 8300 and am setting up to use Epson Exhibition Gloss Canvas. I am still unclear on the best media settings etc. to use with this paper. I saw a recommendation of special 6. Any guidance is greatly appreciated.

Lisa
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garyclow
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« Reply #45 on: April 22, 2012, 09:17:13 PM »
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Thanks Dano, I wouldn't have gotten as far as I did without your help on this forum. 

1.  Please pass along to the appropriate people in your organization that the Exhibition Canvas Satin box insert says "Matte Black (ink) ... is recommended by Epson", and the "Epson Exhibition Canvas Printing and Finishing Guidelines" from your website says "For Exhibition Canvas Satin, use Photo Black ink only".  Luckily, I found this forum and read what you said.  It would be nice if Epson's own documentation was consistent, and even nicer if it was as informative as you.

See: http://www.epson.com/_alfresco/proimaging/media/EPSON_Exhibition_Canvas_Printing_and_Finishing_Guidelines.pdf?BV_UseBVCookie=yes

2.  The Satin Canvas printed box insert says "Increase leading edge margin to more than 1.4 inches (35 mm)."  My 9900 menu gives me a choice to only go to exactly 35mm for the leading edge, and no more.  I don't know how to get to "more than".  Maybe they meant "exactly"?

3.  The Satin Canvas is roughly twice as thick (23 mil) as the Premium Luster (10 mil), but none of the documentation says anything about changing the paper thickness in the advanced media control dialog box.  I set mine to 6.  The paper thickness field shows "(0.1 mm)" and a default value of 3 for Premium Luster, which I assume means that the value is in 0.1mm units, so that would equate to .3 mm, which is  11.8 mil (close to 10 mil).  So I doubled it to a value of 6, which if that means .6 mm as I assume, equates to 23.6 mils.  Did I do the right thing?  If so, it would be nice if the icc pdf and the printed insert both called this media thickness value out.

4.  I did experience very bad head rubbing before setting the media thickness to 6.  I also set the platen gap to "wider" at the same time.  After that I did not experience any noticeable head rubbing.  I did not try changing only the platen gap or only the media thickness to see if I still experienced rubbing (my head had endured enough punishment).  The printed box insert says "If you experience head rubbing...increase your printer platen gap to WIDER".  I don't see how anyone couldn't experience head rubbing.  The question I have is: What are the correct settings for the combination of media thickness and platen gap for the Exhibition Canvas Satin media?  I wonder if I even needed to go to "wider" on the platen gap if I had the correct media thickness set in the first place.

Isn't the head's flying height a function of both these parameters?  I know that sharpness will be degraded if it flies too high.  I want to set it as low as I can go without rubbing to achieve maximum sharpness, don't I?  Is it a function of relative humidity?  When you're dealing in thousands of an inch, it seems like it should be a precise setting.

5.  I observed a noticeable difference in sharpness in detail going from Matte Premium Canvas to the new Exhibition Canvas Satin (matte ink to photo ink also).  Should the resolution be lower?  There were other variables involved (up-res, sharpening s/w, platen gap) which I attribute the difference to, but I would like to know if the any of the lower apparent  resolution might be attributed to the media/ink differences.  I'm also wondering if I'm flying my head too high (see previous question), which could also cause a loss in detail.

Thanks in advance for anyone that can help.
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garyclow
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« Reply #46 on: April 24, 2012, 09:41:03 AM »
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One more issue I've run into...

I printed a 44 x 64 and two 44 x 44's on the Exhibition Canvas Satin.  They are all too short by 1/4" over 44" and more on 64", but dimensionally perfect in width.  I changed to cheaper enhanced matte paper to try to debug the problem and the dimensions were perfect.

I am guessing that the back tension stretches the canvas (don't know if this has to do with printer thinking it's printing on non-stretchable media, i.e. Premium Luster) while it is printing and then when the tension is released, the canvas returns to its at-rest state.

Is my assumption correct, and regardless, how does one best compensate/fix this?  Is the back tension set too high for canvas due to Premium Luster setting in driver, or must one just "fudge" the length to compensate for the stretching?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 09:42:48 AM by garyclow » Logged
garyclow
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« Reply #47 on: April 24, 2012, 10:03:12 AM »
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Hi All,

Seems to be printing well now. Not sure if it was setting platen gap to "widest" or making sure there was no curl on paper edge. I've printed about 3  40"x50" prints with no issues.

For the other 7800/9800 users out there here are my settings:

Epson 9800 with Photo Black ink, current firmware, latest drivers
paper used: Epson Exhibition Canvas Satin

paper type set to Prem Luster (260)
-6% color density
No Auto Cut
Platen Gap set to "Widest"
paper suction: standard
Using the same color profile I use for Premium Luster (260) - a profile from Bill Atkinson
High Speed Off (maybe fine with it on but haven't checked yet)
Rendering Intent Perceptual

Color is not perfect, I'm sure it would be better if I had a profile made...but overall pretty nice.

Also tried b/w with Advanced BW Mode, seemed to work fine too.

Thanks for the help

Jordan

The color may not be perfect because you are using the Premium Luster Paper profile.  You need to use the correct color profile (see Epson ICC profile downloads) for the Exhibition Canvas Satin PK in your application (e.g. PhotoShop or LightRoom). 

Many people are confused because you use the Premium Luster as the Media Type in the driver settings dialog box.  The color space transformation is done by the application, so that's where you use the new icc profile.  You use Premium Luster as the media type setting in the driver because apparently Epson brought out the new canvas media without releasing printer firmware updates to support the new media type.  It's a hopefully temporary workaround. 

You also need to set Color Density to -10 in Advanced Media Control Dialog Box (Driver settings) per the PDF that accompanies the ICC profile and Dano's recommendations (because it's different for the canvas from the Premium Luster).

You need to set the paper feed adjustment (Advanced Media Control Dialog Box) and the leading edge margin (printer menu) to 35mm per the printed insert you will find in the box of canvas.

I set my media thickness to 6 to account for the difference in thickness of the canvas over the luster paper, but Epson does not say to do that (oversight?).  I haven't experimented to see if correcting the thickness eliminates the head crashing and allows you to go back to a standard platen gap.
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Landscapes
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« Reply #48 on: April 24, 2012, 05:13:09 PM »
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One more issue I've run into...

I printed a 44 x 64 and two 44 x 44's on the Exhibition Canvas Satin.  They are all too short by 1/4" over 44" and more on 64", but dimensionally perfect in width.  I changed to cheaper enhanced matte paper to try to debug the problem and the dimensions were perfect.

I am guessing that the back tension stretches the canvas (don't know if this has to do with printer thinking it's printing on non-stretchable media, i.e. Premium Luster) while it is printing and then when the tension is released, the canvas returns to its at-rest state.

Is my assumption correct, and regardless, how does one best compensate/fix this?  Is the back tension set too high for canvas due to Premium Luster setting in driver, or must one just "fudge" the length to compensate for the stretching?

I have this exact same problem with my Canon iPF6100.  I've read about people increasing the "feed" amount and all this jazz, but if you ask me, its just because canvas shrinks when wet, not because the printer is misfeeding.  The reason it doesn't shrink as much along the width is because of the weave pattern.  You can also tell because its easier to rip in one direction but not as easy in the other.  My solution is that I just extend my image 1/2" in photoshop with the "constrain proportions" selection set to off.  So if my image is 60x20, i stretch it to be 60.5x20 and away I print.  I'm very picky as well because I use a 2 inch black border which ends up being the sides of the canvas and hence I like to line everything up within 1mm.  The Epson canvas is great because you can stetch it quite a bit if need be, or not stretch as hard and it still doesn't have ripples.  I also reduce the width to be 19.9 inches so that once again, my black border start perfectly at the corner of the stretcher bar.  I find if the canvas will only be 40 inches in length, then I just increase the image length by 1/4 of an inch.  A bit of trial and error, but it works for me.
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garyclow
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« Reply #49 on: April 25, 2012, 07:29:56 AM »
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What I observed is that the canvas "shrank" well before the ink had a chance to dry and it "shrank" in only one dimension.  I don't know about the weave causing the canvas to be more likely to shrink in one dimension, but I do know the printer puts the canvas under tension in one dimension, and I do know that I measured mine before the ink had a chance to dry.  That would seem to cast a doubt on your hypothesis as an explanation for what I have observed.
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Johnny_Boy
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« Reply #50 on: April 25, 2012, 02:14:48 PM »
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It is not hypothesis. ALL canvas shrinks along the long dimension.
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Landscapes
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« Reply #51 on: April 25, 2012, 03:04:58 PM »
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What I observed is that the canvas "shrank" well before the ink had a chance to dry and it "shrank" in only one dimension.  I don't know about the weave causing the canvas to be more likely to shrink in one dimension, but I do know the printer puts the canvas under tension in one dimension, and I do know that I measured mine before the ink had a chance to dry.  That would seem to cast a doubt on your hypothesis as an explanation for what I have observed.

My one thought against this is that I know run my canvas through the printer with a paper setting of Special 6.  The printer has no way of knowing its canvas.  Since the paper doesn't shrink yet the canvas does, if you remove the variable of the printer knowing its canvas, then it can only be the material.  Same ink... same printer settings... but different media.  So it leads me to conclude that the canvas is shrinking as a result of the ink, which does dry pretty much instantly if you ask me, at least in comparison to printing on an acetate sheet.  Furthermore, a 6 foot pano would have the first 3 or 4 feet having already had 5 or 10 mins to dry since it came out first and hence cause the shrinking. 
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Johnny_Boy
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« Reply #52 on: April 25, 2012, 11:11:57 PM »
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My belief is that the sensor that reads the length is fooled  because of the texture of the canvas's valleys and peaks which add up to the same distance in a shorter length than on a flat surface!


that can't be true either as generally it shrinks only about 1%. If it was really counting peaks and valleys it would shrink like 30-50%. Plus, it is probably just counting the rotations of the paper feeding wheels, rather than some sensors reading off the actual media.
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Farmer
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« Reply #53 on: April 26, 2012, 04:29:55 AM »
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Which sensor, located where, on which printer, do you think is measuring media feed?  The texture of canvas would only make it easier to measure movement compared to, say, a very consistent and flat RC media.

It's measured mechanically as the system feeds the media.  The only sensing that takes place is to check that there's media there and the edges.
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garyclow
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« Reply #54 on: April 26, 2012, 09:50:56 AM »
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It is not hypothesis. ALL canvas shrinks along the long dimension.

The "hypothesis" is not that it shrinks along the length of the media.  We all agree on that, apparently.  The hypothesis put forward was that the ink drying causes the canvas to shrink.  That creates a problem for the hypothesis in that you then have to somehow explain why ink drying would cause it to shrink in one dimension, but not the other.  It was further hypothesized that the weave of the canvas allowed it to shrink in one dimension and not the other in order to make the first part of the hypothesis work.

I think that if you look at the elastic strength of the canvas material, compare that to the forces that could be exerted by the thin layer of ink on the surface of the canvas, to the forces that are exerted by the back tension, we're talking about orders of magnitude in difference.  Sorry I can't quantify any of these forces.

I supposed one could design an experiment to test this by printing a "nearly" blank image (e.g. a single thin line) with cut lines.  If the nearly ink-less test image is shortened, then it at least disproves that it is the ink shrinking that causes the distortion.  At that point, someone would have to come up with some other forces acting on the media to create the distortion.  We know there is back tension.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 09:54:58 AM by garyclow » Logged
del@pscc.com
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« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2012, 01:30:34 AM »
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We have been reasonably happy with Epson Exhibition Canvas Matte, which presented almost no production problems, produced very acceptable and consistent images, but had to be sent out to be varnished (since rolling hasn't worked reliably and we're not in a position to set up a spray booth).  BC Crystalline satin not being available, that left Epson Exhibition Canvas Satin as our only alternative.

We have spent at least 48 of the last 24 hours struggling with Epson Exhibition Canvas Satin on our 9900.  Here are some of our observations:

1 -- Head strikes and edge curling seem to come with the territory with this canvas.  We have set roll margins to 35mm(top)/15mm(bottom), platen gap to "WIDEST", paper thickness to 6.  We're still getting head strikes on the left side in the first few inches of every print and we're also losing considerable detail (as reported by garyclow).

2 -- Once printed and out of the printer, this canvas rolls itself up from side to side, though it doesn't seem to expand or shrink in this direction.

Longitudinal stretching appears to vary with many of the other settings.  We plan to compensate in Photoshop once the other settings are nailed down.

3 -- Color and saturation are out of whack.  We've set color density at -10 and are using the latest Epson profile (Epson_SP7900_9900_Exhibition_Canvas_Satin_PK_v1.icc).

[We had hoped to use ImagePrint as well as the standard Epson driver and profile, but Colorbyte/Imageprint, despite tests with several samples, has been unable to obtain results consistent enough to produce a profile,  so none is available.]

Has anyone been able to build, buy, or find any alternative profile for this medium?

4 -- We have yet to receive a shipment of any Epson canvas in which at least half the rolls did not have to be replaced.  The problem here is Epson's packaging, which just isn't up to the job of protecting rolls in transit.


Many useful suggestions have already been presented in this thread.  We'd be grateful for any others.

Thanks,

Dave.
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bill t.
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« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2012, 01:58:59 AM »
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Has anyone been able to build, buy, or find any alternative profile for this medium?

I wasn't able to get a profile on Exh Canvas Gloss at all, for reasons stated in another post.

However, the profiles for BC Crystalline I recently created for my 8300 are reasonably good when applied to ECG, and I believe the BC downloadable Crystalline profiles for the 9900 might be useful for you.

Nice canvas, goofy surface.  Please Epson, smoother.  Had zero head swipes on the 8300 with highest head height and strongest vacuum and only a tiny amount of edge swiping.  But I have only used 1, 24 inch roll that wasn't out of its sleeve very long.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 02:20:45 AM by bill t. » Logged
del@pscc.com
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« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2012, 08:38:37 AM »
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... Colorbyte/Imageprint, despite tests with several samples, has been unable to obtain results consistent enough to produce a profile ...

To clarify, Colorbyte/Imageprint explained that printed patches were not uniform or repeatable enough to support development of a profile for Epson Exhibition Canvas Satin.

Dave.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2012, 08:46:10 AM »
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To clarify, Colorbyte/Imageprint explained that printed patches were not uniform or repeatable enough to support development of a profile for Epson Exhibition Canvas Satin.

Sounds like BS to me (caused I had no issues building profiles for this material). I like the guys at IP a lot but when it comes to profiles and color management, well there are some odd thinking there IMHO. How about printing a target multiple times, multiple rotations and averaging the data (if even necessary, easy to test and analyze)? Maybe too much work. But these materials can absolutely be profiled.
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Andrew Rodney
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bill t.
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« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2012, 11:22:18 AM »
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Well they must be using an i1Pro, because those were the kinds of error messages I was getting, too much delta between identical patches in different locations.  It wasn't the quality of printing, it was the surface highlights.
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