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Author Topic: Epson 3880 Pizza Wheel Marks vs. Paper Used  (Read 6622 times)
Randy Carone
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« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2012, 11:19:47 AM »
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What settings did you use on the Baryta Photographique? I would use Wider (Platen Gap) and 4 or 5 (Paper Thickness). FWIW, I have never gotten marks on any paper I have run through my 3800 and I have run a wide variety of media through mine since I got it in October of 2009.
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Randy Carone
AFairley
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« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2012, 11:22:27 AM »
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Zoran, you are sitting in the chair before you are even in the dentist's office.  Why make yourself nuts about a problem that you don't even know if you have?  Sheesh.
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Farmer
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« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2012, 05:08:33 PM »
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But by similar logic, Epson says only Epson paper will work in their printers  Roll Eyes

No, they don't.  They say that their papers are specifically tested and have all the appropriate settings to perform correctly.  They, understandably, can't comment on third party media and if you're having a problem they may ask you to baseline on an Epson media so they can check against a known constant.  That's just common sense.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2012, 06:00:04 PM »
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No, they don't.  They say that their papers are specifically tested and have all the appropriate settings to perform correctly.  They, understandably, can't comment on third party media and if you're having a problem they may ask you to baseline on an Epson media so they can check against a known constant.  That's just common sense.

Yes, pretty much what I had in mind above.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
ZoranC
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« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2012, 03:20:24 PM »
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Zoran, you are sitting in the chair before you are even in the dentist's office.  Why make yourself nuts about a problem that you don't even know if you have?  Sheesh.

It is prudent and smart to inspect your new expensive purchase against any known issues upon arrival, don't you think so? I do.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2012, 03:24:28 PM »
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I think it's always good to be aware of any known issues, but from my experience, not to worry about them unless they happen to you. Then if they do, intensify the research to resolve it, which in your case would be to call tech support.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
ZoranC
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« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2012, 07:28:43 PM »
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I haven't had a chance to update my own thread with my own finding but now that I have an opportunity here they are:

I wish I could report what others are saying but fact is that my 3880 does leave pizza wheel marks.

When I printed first few prints on gloss and semi-gloss paper I was ecstatic as I couldn't see them and was ready to call it a day. But then I re-read statements on 3800 FAQ page that were indicating they are visible only under certain lighting and from certain viewing directions.

So I went back and re-examined prints from all angles with magnifier under harshest light I could throw at them and sure enough, pizza wheel marks were there.

I wouldn't be able to see them 99.99% of the time under normal viewing conditions (like diffused light and normal viewing angles) but when examined under the sharp angle and high contrast light in direction of paper path I would see them.

They were most visible on glossy paper, less visible on semi-gloss, and very rare but still some of them there even on fine art paper.

I then tried already prescribed "remedies" and nothing change that. Changing of print speed did not make them go away. Nor did change of platen. No matter what I tried they remained there.

At that point in time I had to stop and ask myself what I should do as so many people were reporting no pizza wheel marks at all on their 3880's.

While mulling over that I remembered I had some of sample prints Epson sent me from their 3880. I went back, found one that was on semi-gloss paper, examined it carefully and lo and behold there were pizza wheel marks even on Epson's sample.

Sure they were in smaller amount than on mine but they were there and that was on printer that printed who knows how many pages so far while mine is brand new.

That made my decision making much easier. I have decided to stop wasting time chasing pizza wheel marks, as it was obvious even Epson's own prints have them, and to instead be pragmatic about them, minimizing them by avoiding high gloss paper when possible, ignoring them where I can do that (as they are not visible practically all the time under normal viewing conditions), and when I don't want to ignore them using paper path that does not result in them.

And as for question why my Epson and my copy have them while many claim theirs don't, I don't know the answer, and probably never will. It could be due to manufacturing tolerances and it could be that many didn't expect their prints as strictly as I did.

In any case I plan to have fun with my 3880.
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Farmer
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« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2012, 08:17:50 PM »
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Unless you have someone request a print be made that is specifically to be viewed at a very odd angle in high contrasting light, I wouldn't worry (which is the approach you're taking, which I think is exactly correct!).

I mean, if you look close enough at an LCD TV you can see these strange, coloured dots and gaps in between!  :-)
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ZoranC
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« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2012, 11:22:52 PM »
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Unless you have someone request a print be made that is specifically to be viewed at a very odd angle in high contrasting light, I wouldn't worry ...

To me this is about implied expectations that I want to deliver on. Nobody will make kind of request you used as an example, but certain profile of sale implies as high quality deliverable as possible.

I mean, if you look close enough at an LCD TV you can see these strange, coloured dots and gaps in between!  :-)

LOL
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Farmer
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« Reply #29 on: February 29, 2012, 01:44:21 AM »
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There's certainly nothing wrong with wanting to provide the highest quality.  The only point I'm making is that if you look close enough, everything is "flawed".
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BFoto
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« Reply #30 on: February 29, 2012, 06:01:53 AM »
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Having just bought a 3880 ad using Canson Rag Photographic matte and Ilford Gold Fibre Silk semigloss papers. My observations seem to be consistantly repeatable. Every time I turn on my printer after a few days being off, I run a nossle check and almost always the pizza wheel marks are there. So, I run another nossle check and its gone. As long as i run a nossle check i don't have any images affected adversely.

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AFairley
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« Reply #31 on: February 29, 2012, 11:24:31 AM »
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Zoran, I sporadically saw what could be the marks you describe, in my case, they printed across the to part of the image in the sky.  What I did was set up the Epson driver to rotate the print 180 degrees, so that if they do occur, they are not in an area of (relatively) even tone like sky, but in the foreground which has lots of fine detail and tonal variation.  That way it is even harder to see them if they occur.
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ZoranC
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« Reply #32 on: February 29, 2012, 11:55:21 AM »
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There's certainly nothing wrong with wanting to provide the highest quality.  The only point I'm making is that if you look close enough, everything is "flawed".
Yes, I do agree with your point Smiley
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ZoranC
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« Reply #33 on: February 29, 2012, 11:57:04 AM »
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Having just bought a 3880 ad using Canson Rag Photographic matte and Ilford Gold Fibre Silk semigloss papers. My observations seem to be consistantly repeatable. Every time I turn on my printer after a few days being off, I run a nossle check and almost always the pizza wheel marks are there. So, I run another nossle check and its gone. As long as i run a nossle check i don't have any images affected adversely.

I personally do not see how nozzle check would make them go away but I am willing to try it.
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ZoranC
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« Reply #34 on: February 29, 2012, 11:57:45 AM »
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Zoran, I sporadically saw what could be the marks you describe, in my case, they printed across the to part of the image in the sky.  What I did was set up the Epson driver to rotate the print 180 degrees, so that if they do occur, they are not in an area of (relatively) even tone like sky, but in the foreground which has lots of fine detail and tonal variation.  That way it is even harder to see them if they occur.
Cool idea, thank you Smiley
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Paul Roark
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« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2012, 10:57:52 AM »
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Slightly OT, but with the dyes I'm starting to use, pizza wheel marks appear to be one of the pigment artifacts that largely disappears.  (Bronzing and gloss differential are also gone.)   See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/BW-Dye.pdf for general information about the Epson-Noritsu dyes.  I've now scaled up to an Epson 4000 and the dyes appear to work well with wide format. 

The longevity is not good enough for color fine art work (comparing the Conservation Display Ratings at http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/cgi-bin/mrk/_4899c2hvd19kb2NfbGlzdC80), but the dyes may well be better than some third party color pigments.  Of most interest to B&W photographers (like me), with a Print Shield spray black-only Claria is in color UltraChrome territory.  Not too shabby for many uses.  More fade testing is needed, but where visual impact is primary and the product is not intended for the collector market, fighting the pigment artifacts may not be the best strategy.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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