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Author Topic: why a mac...or I need a new laptop  (Read 7864 times)
jjj
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« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2012, 10:50:34 PM »
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I read many posts over at DPR in the printer section mostly, now that I think about it, but some elsewhere.  Someone has a problem when they upgrade the OS. I have no idea if they are early adopters or numbskulls who do not know how to use their computers or what the issue is. I cannot believe that this is a big issue or everyone, including my friends that use macs would be howling. It is something I see from time to time & brought it up.  Usually an driver update fixes hardware things without too much trouble. Perhaps as far as applications go they did not read that their 15 year old program is no longer comparable. Who knows, you almost never get the whole story.
Apple have been known to break things that other companies then have to fix. There certainly have been terrible problems with printing in the past which I seem to recall caused a lot of problems at Adobe and early versions of Snow Leopard caused Photoshop problems.
Both of last weeks updates to Snow Leopard and Lion borked people's machines [in different ways]. The SL glitch has been resolved, but not sure about the Lion one. I've got Lion, but it's not been fixed enough for me to use it for work yet. Likewise with PCs, I wait until SP1 before using a new OS.
I wouldn't blame the end user as updates are meant to fix things not break things and Apple do claim their stuff just works. However I tend to wait a week or two before installing any Apple upgrades. Typically the one time I forgot to do that [SL10.56.5 IIRC] I had to roll back to prior version immediately because of problems.
iTunes Match currently has serious issues, not as bad as the MobileMe fiasco, but still a major grade cockup and I wouldn't entrust my music to it.

This was a frequent graphics problem I had with 10.5.3, which immediately disappeared after upgrading to 10.5.4 and has never been seen since.



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« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2012, 11:46:46 PM »
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Thanks JJJ,

I have downloaded and trying to get familiar with it, it does look promising, thanks

Henrik
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« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2012, 11:53:13 PM »
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Thanks JJJ,

Looks like what I am looking for! To think I haven't worked this out sooner is a little mistery to me ;-) Duh.....feeling a little.... for letting something like that slipping me by for so many years

thanks once again

Henrik
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jjj
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« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2012, 12:08:59 AM »
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Thanks JJJ,

Looks like what I am looking for! To think I haven't worked this out sooner is a little mistery to me ;-) Duh.....feeling a little.... for letting something like that slipping me by for so many years

thanks once again

Henrik
I thought exactly the same when I discovered DOpus. Particularly when I realised how much time and effort it would have saved me over the years.

It's worth spending time going through the preferences and setting them up as you like. It may take some time as it is so very, very customisable and you'll find all sorts of things you didn't know file browsers can do. But you can save and export prefs really easily.

A lot of very useful and extremely well written info here
DOpus explained
a bit out of date, but still well worth perusing to learn what it can do. Short answer - a lot.

Latest version info
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K.C.
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« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2012, 12:26:02 AM »
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3.  There are many more programs available for PC's.  Whether you need them or not is besides the point. What is the point is that if you need a program or are required to use a program, chances are you'll find it for a PC before a Mac.  Win for Pc's.

4.  You have more choices of hardware configuration available with PC's whether it be laptops or custom built workstations.  Win for Pc's.

5.  A regular guy off the street is more likely to get a quality piece of hardware by going with Mac than with a PC.   Mac does really well policing their hardware quality level.  Win for Mac.

Having worked as an IT manager for 25+ years I would agree that the platforms are closer to each other than ever before.

However point 3 above is moot now with virtualization. Points 4 is invalid, in my opinion, based on experience with so many really poorly built PCs. Point 5 is why I use a Mac any time I have to pay for it myself.

I was recently at a meeting of 15 IT managers for a large corporation here in California. We all support about 80% PCs and 20% Macs. We all walked into the room and pulled MBPs out of our bags and put them on the table. I would say there was a clear consensus as to which we all preferred at the end of the day.

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Steve Weldon
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« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2012, 01:15:42 AM »
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Having worked as an IT manager for 25+ years I would agree that the platforms are closer to each other than ever before.

However point 3 above is moot now with virtualization. Points 4 is invalid, in my opinion, based on experience with so many really poorly built PCs. Point 5 is why I use a Mac any time I have to pay for it myself.

I was recently at a meeting of 15 IT managers for a large corporation here in California. We all support about 80% PCs and 20% Macs. We all walked into the room and pulled MBPs out of our bags and put them on the table. I would say there was a clear consensus as to which we all preferred at the end of the day.



1.  I don't agree.  There are issues with virtualization and the average guy isn't going to find it a simple task. 

2.  Silly statement.  Sure, there are a lot of poorly built PC's (and poorly built Mac's though not nearly as many), but there are many well built PC's with a much greater availability of hardware configurations.  This doesn't make the point moot, instead it validates it.  I build PC's for clients and about half of what they require (mostly due to drive bay, power supply, and graphic card limitations) couldn't be built with a Mac.  And all but a few couldn't be built by Mac because they have never offered the most popular CPU for desktops.. the i7.  Granted, the Macpro offers dual Xeon's which are great, but they're also pricey in a limited case.  80% of the computers you support are PC's.  Are all 80% so poorly built you should have never recommended them as an IT manager?

3.   I had to laugh, 25+ years as a IT manager and you buy a Mac because you can't easily find a well built PC?  Ask, I'll help you out.

4.  Yes, there is a clear consensus.  It's called the marketplace.  You support 80% PC's.  What percentage are desktops NOT running dual Xeons?  How many were purchased by contract to fit a specific need, run specific legacy software where virtualization wasn't acceptable, with a specified level of service and a given service life that made them economically feasible?  As opposed to being fashion accessories or serious DTP or graphic workstations?  Individuals might not have all the requirements of a corporation, but they usually have some of them with price being a big one.

I love discussions with well reasoned opinions, but it's a bit boorish when someone claims the high ground of being the SME and expects credit for such, and then gives such a poorly reasoned and supported fanboy response.
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John.Murray
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« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2012, 01:33:54 AM »
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K.C. - Similar experience!  The fact is you can very easily run Windows on a Mac, the reverse is not true. That said my desktops runs Windows....

Interesting side note - I spent part of the day sorting out a mixed Windows / Mac environment with some HP printers using the universal printer driver that HP, along with Canon supports. The latest 5.4 offerings are impressive - offering a nearly identical interface between XP/Win7/Mac platforms - 32/64...

to Steve:
Remember, we're talking laptops - we don't get the the options available to custom builders like you and me.

KC's point is well taken - we have to support both platforms, can't legally do that with a Dell or Lenovo...

I'm still of the opinion that the major manufactures of PC's are under the thumb of marketing "suits" and their attendant "deals".  Witness the appearance of dedicated Microsoft outlets offering customized PC's (ie: what you and I do).
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 01:46:36 AM by John.Murray » Logged

jjj
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« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2012, 02:11:00 AM »
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K.C. - Similar experience!  The fact is you can very easily run Windows on a Mac, the reverse is not true. That said my desktops runs Windows....
As mentioned above, not always an easy experience and Apple seem to hobble Windows in bootcamp so it's a bit crappy to use and virtual machines have their own limitations too.


Quote
to Steve:
Remember, we're talking laptops - we don't get the the options available to custom builders like you and me.
Actually you can customise many laptops before purchase. Obviously in a more limited way compared to a desktop, but options are available.
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« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2012, 04:36:18 AM »
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I think we are also missing the vanity effect and that Apple is more like
a fashion accessorie and a status symbol.

It stylish and sleek, it looks great and it has a
flawless reputation at least so we kept being
told by Apple, and this is mainly done by slamming
the opposition with cleaver marketing.

But at the end of the day a client can't tell if
the image was made on a Apple Mac or a Windows
machine.
I do find this amusing, I am an IT such and such, therefore I know, well I run a business
and the rules that apply to me also goes for corporate "WORLD", that cost
of ownership, service and the speed at which tasks
can be performed are key. To my knowledge there are not
Any tasks that can't be done on either platform.

But... Despite all our arguments as to which is better or worse - we luckily
have the freedom to choose and to me as an individual
is the most important factor... Written on my iPhone but I am a PC guy :-)

All the best

Henrik
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W.T. Jones
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« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2012, 06:30:33 AM »
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Apple have been known to break things that other companies then have to fix. There certainly have been terrible problems with printing in the past which I seem to recall caused a lot of problems at Adobe and early versions of Snow Leopard caused Photoshop problems.
Both of last weeks updates to Snow Leopard and Lion borked people's machines [in different ways]. The SL glitch has been resolved, but not sure about the Lion one. I've got Lion, but it's not been fixed enough for me to use it for work yet. Likewise with PCs, I wait until SP1 before using a new OS.
I wouldn't blame the end user as updates are meant to fix things not break things and Apple do claim their stuff just works. However I tend to wait a week or two before installing any Apple upgrades. Typically the one time I forgot to do that [SL10.56.5 IIRC] I had to roll back to prior version immediately because of problems.
iTunes Match currently has serious issues, not as bad as the MobileMe fiasco, but still a major grade cockup and I wouldn't entrust my music to it.

This was a frequent graphics problem I had with 10.5.3, which immediately disappeared after upgrading to 10.5.4 and has never been seen since.

jjj,

So there is validity to those claims and early adoption seems to be the culprit due to buggy software? I have some tendency to disbelieve many complaints about things on the net. Call me cynical, but people do have a tendency to not think things through before spouting off on forums. I have been guilty of that as well.(this may be one of those times.)

However most if not all of the printer issues (my concern) I was reading about seem to have been fixed rather quickly from what I see. It was not enough to scare me off in any event.

Not being one to follow tech issues unless I have a problem, I am unaware of iTunes match & MobileMe  problems.

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jjj
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« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2012, 10:39:22 AM »
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So there is validity to those claims and early adoption seems to be the culprit due to buggy software? I have some tendency to disbelieve many complaints about things on the net. Call me cynical, but people do have a tendency to not think things through before spouting off on forums. I have been guilty of that as well.(this may be one of those times.)
Once whilst in the Apple Store to get my Apple kit fixed [an all too common trip I'm afraid], the Mac Genius working on my MacPro said he never upgraded to a new Apple OS until bug fix 4 or 5!
Though I will give the Apple stores a big credit for their very good customer service and they have a ridiculous amount of staff compared to most stores. Not all are geniuses or know how to solve your problem, but rarely are they not helpful in some way - often by simply knowing the person who can be of help. No PC shop comes anywhere near this level of service.
Though the Mac staff in PC World tend to be as useless as the rest of them in shop.
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Farmer
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« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2012, 03:59:25 PM »
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For anyone who is taking a look at Dopus as a result of this thread, remember that you can get a free, fully functional trial version for 30 days and if you register it gets extended to 60 days.

Also, using it as "Explorer Replacement" is the most powerful way to use it.

I first used it back on the Amiga and have been a fan ever since.  JJJ said it was the PS of file browsers, but really I think it's beyond that :-)  If you work on multiple monitors, it just gets better and better.
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John.Murray
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« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2012, 06:54:13 PM »
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jjj,

So there is validity to those claims and early adoption seems to be the culprit due to buggy software? I have some tendency to disbelieve many complaints about things on the net. Call me cynical, but people do have a tendency to not think things through before spouting off on forums. I have been guilty of that as well.(this may be one of those times.)

However most if not all of the printer issues (my concern) I was reading about seem to have been fixed rather quickly from what I see. It was not enough to scare me off in any event.

Not being one to follow tech issues unless I have a problem, I am unaware of iTunes match & MobileMe  problems.



I wouldn't worry too much about his comments, honestly i've never heard *anyone* that has had as many issues.....  obviously angry about it as well.   I'm very aggressive about upgrades, but also carefull to check device/application compatibility ahead of time.  The only major issue for me with Lion was I could no longer run i1 for color profiling - i knew that ahead of time, so i just boot in Snow Leopard for Color Management Chores, then copy profiles over to Lion.

Some comments are factually incorrect, his association of Final Cut Pro X and Quicktime for instance, QT is 32 bit - FCPX uses AV Foundation.
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jjj
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« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2012, 06:19:41 AM »
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I wouldn't worry too much about his comments, honestly i've never heard *anyone* that has had as many issues.....  obviously angry about it as well.   I'm very aggressive about upgrades, but also carefull to check device/application compatibility ahead of time.  The only major issue for me with Lion was I could no longer run i1 for color profiling - i knew that ahead of time, so i just boot in Snow Leopard for Color Management Chores, then copy profiles over to Lion.

Some comments are factually incorrect, his association of Final Cut Pro X and Quicktime for instance, QT is 32 bit - FCPX uses AV Foundation.
I think you'll find the incorrect facts are solely on your part as I never mentioned FCPX + Quicktime. Not sure anyone else did either as first mention of Quicktime is in your post.

And do you also somehow think I should be skipping with joy around the internet because 3 out of 4 of my rather expensive Apple items should be faulty/problematic. All I'm doing is offering a real world, non fawning view of Apple. What does annoy me however is naive macolytes defending their perfect company. Ironically the one item that works just fine is the iPod nano which was a sale bargain. The other 3 being full price brand new top of range items.

I should mention that I certainly do not think PC vendors are perfect either, but unlike Apple they do not claim to 'just work'. And as I already mentioned above, the more expensive a purchase is, the less likely people are to admit to any issues. And as Apple products are only at the high priced end of market.....you get a lot of people protesting a little too hard that they work perfectly.

Now not only do Apple not sell cheap products, but spec both the hardware and design the software. This means they should be much, much better than PCs running Windows which has to run on a near infinite combination of hardware, a lot of which is cheap and nasty.
Now I've had PCs that have had no problems, but I would not be daft enough to claim that all PCs are good as a result of this, yet I've seen Mac users try to prove that all Macs work as theirs didn't have issues.

In the last week Apple have had 3 major software problems. Both Lion + Snow Leopard updates and also iTunes Match screwing up people's music.
The majority of Apple users I know have taken their Macs back to the store within the first year. I'm the only Mac laptop user I know who hasn't had problems with the magsafe power cord - Apple have had been forced to do a product recall on it as it happens.
OSX Update problems
iTunes match Problems
Mag Safe recall yet despite it being a worldwide problem, you can't get a replacement here in UK. And a colleague who lives a few doors down has had several break and had to cough up for new ones - not cheap either.
PS issues with Snow Leopard This was sorted with the SL 10.6.2 update if I recall, but then then 10.6.3 caused new problems with CS3.
One of very many threads re Snow Leopard color management problems
And the lists of issues go on and on. Which kind of makes a mockery of Apple's marketing strategy.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 06:21:22 AM by jjj » Logged

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Jim Pascoe
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« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2012, 11:14:52 AM »
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I use Canon cameras and lenses and people often ask me when I am working if it is because I think Canon is better than Nikon.  My reply is no, I just started using Canon when I went digital ten years ago and gradually invested in the system and it just works with almost complaints.  I'm sure Nikon would have been the same.

About five years ago I switched from PC to an iMac because I was seduced by the design and the promise of easy use.  We now still have the iMac, and it still works flawlessly despite having newer software installed.  We also have a Macbook Pro (4 years), a Macbook (2 years), and a Mac Pro (nine months).  They just work.  Pretty much flawlessly.  Not saying they are better for everyone, but I use them a lot and they never let me down.  Applecare?  Who needs it?.

Nobody has mentioned anti-virus software yet, but in my experience it is a pain in the butt on all PC's I have used.  It is not installed on my Mac's and so far it has never been an issue.  Perhaps I am just lucky (touches wood quickly).

Jim
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Steve Weldon
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« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2012, 12:26:23 PM »
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to Steve:
Remember, we're talking laptops - we don't get the the options available to custom builders like you and me.

I was going off what he claimed to support with the 80/20 figures.  I don't think he was talking exclusively laptops, but platforms.  Sorry, but my comments hold.
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Steve Weldon
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« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2012, 12:45:12 PM »
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I think we are also missing the vanity effect and that Apple is more like
a fashion accessorie and a status symbol.


It stylish and sleek, it looks great and it has a
flawless reputation at least so we kept being
told by Apple, and this is mainly done by slamming
the opposition with cleaver marketing.


But at the end of the day a client can't tell if
the image was made on a Apple Mac or a Windows
machine.

I do find this amusing, I am an IT such and such, therefore I know, well I run a business
and the rules that apply to me also goes for corporate "WORLD", that cost
of ownership, service and the speed at which tasks
can be performed are key. To my knowledge there are not
Any tasks that can't be done on either platform.


But... Despite all our arguments as to which is better or worse - we luckily
have the freedom to choose
and to me as an individual
is the most important factor... Written on my iPhone but I am a PC guy :-)

All the best

Henrik

1.  I think this can't be discounted.  When it comes to computers men are like women, they like pretty/sleek/thin/ baubles.  There's nothing wrong with this, but let's not confuse form with function.

2.  If we say it enough over and over again, people start to believe it.  This is the core of advertising.  The facts are that IT departments roll out PC's 100 to 1 over Mac's (this figure will vary I'm sure) and IT managers aren't doing this because all the workers end up with machines that won't do the job either through poor design or hardware failures.  The PC's do the job.   They're doing it because the marketplace allows PC's to be rolled out at significantly less cost, AND because many companies are using legacy software supported by windows which won't fly with Mac's bootcamp or any other type of virtualization.   If we can agree that "all else being equal" when it comes to capability between Mac and PC's, then we are left with cost and legacy software support.. and these two areas cannot/should not be discounted.

3.  Absolutely.  An image file is an image file.  I've had a handful of issues where a DVD I burned needed a certain file system standard to be read on legacy Mac's, but for the vast majority clients a file is a file.

4.  Tasks no.  But it remains true that the available library of software to perform these tasks is much larger with PC's.   An interesting observation.  I've seen more progress made with iphone and adroid aps in the support of such tasks than I have with Mac software.

5.  Absolutely.  We live in great times with more choice than we've ever had.   Love it.
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Steve Weldon
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« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2012, 12:51:26 PM »
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Nobody has mentioned anti-virus software yet, but in my experience it is a pain in the butt on all PC's I have used.  It is not installed on my Mac's and so far it has never been an issue.  Perhaps I am just lucky (touches wood quickly).

Jim
Ten years ago anti-virus software wasn't nearly as good as it is now.  Properly selected and installed, anti-virus software is a non-issue.  It just does it's job and you forget it's there until it has occasion to warn you about something.

This mindset that Mac's don't need anti-virus software.  I understand the authors of viruses need them to spread and infect more machines, and with more PC's out there they make the better target.  A side effect of success I suppose.  Yet, with Mac's gaining market share does anyone think that will change?
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« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2012, 03:31:01 PM »
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As Steve said, the "issue" of anti-virus is a huge furphy.  You can get it for free, from Microsoft, and never have a problem or a system slow down or any such thing.

Of course, if you pay any attention at all to the kind of sites you visit and the emails you open, you have a very, very, very small chance of ever encountering a virus.  People who are click-happy and decide to install all sorts of rubbish on their computers or open every email, will probably see many more virii, but on a modern system with a/v it will just protect them from themselves.

Steve's also right that Mac just doesn't represent any value to target - small market share and would require new coding and additional effort.  At some point that may change, but for now Mac effectively enjoys "security through obscurity" (not quite the same, but similar concept).
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« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2012, 09:34:19 AM »
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I think Quickbooks is relatively new to Mac.  If you use other software to write checks, not all of them in fact very few, can run on a Mac.  (eg. I use Checksoft with Quicken.  Checksoft does not run on a Mac.)  So be careful.

I can easily take a Mac Airbook into the field with me , so I can take a quick look at my images before leaving a site.  An Ipad 2 would be even easier to keep tethered while in the field.
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