Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Are we going to see MF price decreases now that DSLRs reach 36 megapixels?  (Read 16437 times)
hasselbladfan
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 407


« on: February 07, 2012, 06:53:34 AM »
ReplyReply

Nikon just announced their new D800 with 36 megapixels (full frame).

I guess this should have an impact on 31 and 40 mega backs. Or is this wish-full thinking?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 06:58:46 AM by hasselbladfan » Logged
hasselbladfan
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 407


« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2012, 07:14:27 AM »
ReplyReply

Even the price is unbelievable at 2999 usd.
Logged
Kagetsu
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 196


WWW
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2012, 07:19:24 AM »
ReplyReply

Keeping in mind many MF users don't use it because of the resolution (solely).

I think back to the release of the Pentax 645D, did it effect the prices much? A little, for the entry level stuff... but over all? Not really. Additionally, I like most others will probably wait to see how it performs really over all... right now we have some JPG's to go off, and that's it.
Logged
JV
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 643


« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2012, 07:47:19 AM »
ReplyReply

Prices of $15K and $17K for the Leaf Aptus-II 7 and the P30+ were already very unrealistic even before the D800.
It is hard to imagine that the prices for the 30MP backs would not go down...
Logged
markymarkrb
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 61



« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2012, 07:57:17 AM »
ReplyReply

From D800 announcement:

"D800 Primary Features

New Nikon FX-format CMOS image sensor
The D800 is equipped with a new Nikon FX-format CMOS image sensor and the new EXPEED 3 image-processing engine for Nikon digital SLR cameras. This new image-processing engine is faster and offers greater performance. The camera also offers the world's highest* effective pixel count of 36.3-million pixels. When combined with the sharp rendering of NIKKOR lenses, images exhibiting resolution equal to that achieved with medium-format digital cameras are possible."

I find that hard to believe


Logged
Gary Ferguson
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 524


WWW
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2012, 08:14:07 AM »
ReplyReply

Nikon just announced their new D800 with 36 megapixels (full frame).

I guess this should have an impact on 31 and 40 mega backs. Or is this wish-full thinking?

I guess it'll deflate the price of the smaller second hand backs. But I suspect that for smaller new backs the question is will they continue to be sold or will lower sales see them withdrawn from the range?
Logged
MrSmith
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 909



WWW
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2012, 08:14:54 AM »
ReplyReply

i can believe it but it's meaningless.
it's like saying that with this lens with resolving power X and this sensor pitch Y is the same or greater than than this medium format lens that can resolve Z and out resolves this sensor A.

what i do believe is that this camera and whatever canon announce soon of similar spec when paired with the best lenses in their respective ranges (and those from other manufacturers) will be the tool of choice many whose clients wish to have a 100mb tiff to go to print with.

faced with the choice of an expensive slow heavy noisy feature limited MF solution of 30-40 mpixels and a 36mpixel canikon i would choose the 35mm solution whoever is paying.

it's going to mean selling a few less than stellar lenses (45mm ts-e  24-70 2.8 ) but i'm never going to buy a MF camera now and just hire for the odd job that requires huge files. if canon don't respond with a similar camera then i'll swap to nikon and use the excellent canon manual focus 24 and 90 tse's and buy the nikon zooms. all for less than price of a phase one "value added warranty" and one of their better schneider lenses.

it's a no-brainer.
Logged
ondebanks
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 833



« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2012, 08:37:10 AM »
ReplyReply

Keeping in mind many MF users don't use it because of the resolution (solely).

Indeed, and that's why I think that 36 MP FFDSLRs won't make that much difference to pricing of MFD systems.

Even in an age of 21-24 MP FFDSLRs, 16-22 MP MF backs still sold, at considerably higher prices. This is just the same thing.

The premise of the question seems to be that all photographers are megapixel whores and platform flippertigibbets (great word that!). There are many diverse reasons why we bought into our medium format systems, and a 36MP DSLR isn't going to change those reasons. More likely, we'll add one alongside our MF systems, as I've done for example with a 5DII.

Ray
Logged
fredjeang
Guest
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2012, 08:43:20 AM »
ReplyReply

Prices of $15K and $17K for the Leaf Aptus-II 7 and the P30+ were already very unrealistic even before the D800.
It is hard to imagine that the prices for the 30MP backs would not go down...

I think that they won't, or marginally but not enough to stop the bleeding.

They don't target any more the active professional who need to look in his bank account. They know that this battle is lost already against giants of this industry with much more
technological power and infrastructures.

They target the retiree pro, the wealphy amateur, the museums and specialized institutions, gallery artists but their really pro client isn't where the money is and it will be less and less truth.

I understand their position, at the same time, I think they really need new creative staff. Look at Red, this isn't a big company, but they are on their way to dominate a huge market.

MF have been really slow to react to the evolution, they haven't been visionary but conservative. This world changes at the speed of light and MF changes at the speed of a turtle. Soon or later, this will cost something somewhere.

I don't think honestly that if there is not a serious reaction soon and a complete rebuilt of their mentalities, they will disappear or forced to be even more specialized and therefore more expensive.

« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 08:46:35 AM by fredjeang » Logged
MrSmith
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 909



WWW
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2012, 08:55:15 AM »
ReplyReply

"but their really pro client isn't where the money is "
true, you only have to look at the users on here who are swapping around between Leica/IQ-380/HD-5-381ms/leaf-382 like they are playing with small change yet they are not working photographers.
maybe phase one should consider using green crocodile leather panels or a titanium body mercedes/mont blanc/moet special edition camera to increase market share?
Logged
fredjeang
Guest
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2012, 09:07:32 AM »
ReplyReply

"but their really pro client isn't where the money is "
true, you only have to look at the users on here who are swapping around between Leica/IQ-380/HD-5-381ms/leaf-382 like they are playing with small change yet they are not working photographers.
maybe phase one should consider using green crocodile leather panels or a titanium body mercedes/mont blanc/moet special edition camera to increase market share?

Oh, that's already a Leica pattent no? And it seems that they did well with those "editions". Why not?

More seriously, today at 11 am I took coffee with a well established commercial pro here (canon, Blad user), quite old fox of the old school. We talked precisely about all that, MF, the new dslr multimedia stuff etc...
He looked at me and said: the thrill today is a Red system.
Logged
Cineski
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 141


« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2012, 09:12:13 AM »
ReplyReply

35mm does not equal medium format just because the sensor size is different.  However, considering the completely misinformed public on this matter, and considering I don't have enough money to buy a P65+ back for my Contax, I sure hope it ends up lowering the price!   Wink Grin
Logged
TimG
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 97


« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2012, 09:13:53 AM »
ReplyReply

The D800 will likely lure those away from MFDBs who insist on counting megapixels rather than measuring sensor size or DR.  Same is true for those who think in terms of "good enough".  I don't see it affecting the price of MF digital in any way.  The entry-level offerings from Mamiya/Leaf/Phase and Pentax are already a pretty great deal.  How low can they really go?  $9K? $8K? Lower?
Logged
JV
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 643


« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2012, 09:45:55 AM »
ReplyReply

But I suspect that for smaller new backs the question is will they continue to be sold or will lower sales see them withdrawn from the range?

I believe you are right.  Rather than lowering prices it is more likely that lower MP backs no longer will be sold.
Logged
MrSmith
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 909



WWW
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2012, 09:46:32 AM »
ReplyReply

The D800 will likely lure those away from MFDBs who insist on counting megapixels rather than measuring sensor size or DR.  

or price, or portability or noise performance at 400/800/1200+ iso's.
not every imaging system provides all the answers for every photographer which is why there will always be a market for different cameras, a 36mpixel camera with high quality lenses (including 'architecural' and 'studio' focal lengths with shift/tilt movements) is the holy grail for me, MF delivers some of my requirements some of the time at significant cost. so on a business level MF isn't making any sense for me.
this doesn't mean phamiyablad are now history it just means their market will shrink a little unless they can innovate and make people change in the same way as the 22 and 49mp backs did, this was when a lot of people i know jumped from film, these same people then ditched what 35mm gear they had (even though they didn't use it very often) and bought a 5d or a 5dII.
i was talking to a colleague today and he said he is never going to buy another MF back but stick to his p45 and buy a nikon outfit for not a lot of i suspect others will be thinking the same.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 10:47:03 AM by MrSmith » Logged
Pics2
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 167


« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2012, 09:47:32 AM »
ReplyReply

The D800 will likely lure those away from MFDBs who insist on counting megapixels rather than measuring sensor size or DR.  Same is true for those who think in terms of "good enough".  I don't see it affecting the price of MF digital in any way.  The entry-level offerings from Mamiya/Leaf/Phase and Pentax are already a pretty great deal.  How low can they really go?  $9K? $8K? Lower?
You are right, Tim! I've been researching the market for last few months, since I want to buy MF system. To be honest, I was attracted by entry level offerings of used equipment ( those under 6K Mamiya kits on CI). But, because I don't think in terms of "good enough" (otherwise I wouldn't be looking into MF at all - which brings another question-who are these entry level MF's for?) I realized those kits are not the best (older technology or cropped sensor or both). And then I got stuck Undecided.
The cheapest option for large sensor with newer technology (AptusII 10, Hasselblad H4D 50, Phase One 65+ or IQ160) are all over 30K, or even 40K. I want it, I need it, but I have a lot, lot more thinking to do, because it's sooo expensive.
So now, I don't know what to do, I'm getting tired of all the thinking.
Logged
BJL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5163


« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2012, 09:54:25 AM »
ReplyReply

The premise of the question seems to be that all photographers are megapixel whores ...
No, not _all_: only that _some_ significant proportion of photographers are currently use MF rather than 35mm format primarily for resolute reasons, and so a good number of them will soon be lost to the MF market.
Actually, that might just increase the pricing of MF bodies and lenses, by moving them to even lower sales volume.

Logged
BJL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5163


« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2012, 10:00:42 AM »
ReplyReply

The D800 will likely lure those away from MFDBs who insist on counting megapixels rather than measuring sensor size or DR.
I would remove DR from that list of MF advantages: my prediction is that DR will favor the D800 over DMF CCDs with their far worse read noise levels (now about five to ten times worse than good CMOS sensors).

 Does that just leave MF the market for those who need even more resolution, and the dilettantes who blindly believe that "the sensor is bigger, so the results must be better"? Hopefully not; if only because MF lens systems offer some continuing IQ advantages for some uses.
Logged
JV
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 643


« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2012, 10:05:27 AM »
ReplyReply

They target the retiree pro, the wealphy amateur, the museums and specialized institutions, gallery artists but their really pro client isn't where the money is and it will be less and less truth.

I believe Leica will end up taking this market.  I don't believe there is enough room for 2 or 3 companies.

I don't think honestly that if there is not a serious reaction soon and a complete rebuilt of their mentalities, they will disappear or forced to be even more specialized and therefore more expensive.

50-200MP backs at $30-40K prices and very specific industries.  I believe you are right.
Logged
Gary Ferguson
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 524


WWW
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2012, 10:10:38 AM »
ReplyReply

this doesn't mean phamiyablad are now history it just means their market will shrink a little unless

You're right. Every time 35mm digital raises the image quality bar it takes a bite out of the potential medium format market.

Go back to the end of the 20th century and the single largest component of the medium format market were wedding photographers, I'd guess the great majority have already jumped ship to 35mm digital and innovations like the new Nikon will see a few more go the same way. Then there's catalogue and pack photographers, factor in the latest generation of 35mm tilt & shift lenses and many of them will be following suit.

Of course there are always marginal image quality advantages, and for those printing A2 or larger, or with unlimited personal or corporate budgets, they'll stay with medium format digital as long as the manufacturers stay in business. But the technologies of four colour web offset printing isn't developing anywhere near as fast, and for up to a double page spread these very latest 35mm cameras must offer a very tempting alternative.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad