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Author Topic: Is the D800E expected to have noticeable better IQ than the D800?  (Read 15429 times)
remko
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« Reply #60 on: March 10, 2012, 12:12:00 AM »
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Ray,

I have been to a Nikon NPS event here in the Netherlands were several comparison shots D800 vs D800E were shown. These shots were not printed though, but presented via a projector ...... so much for a projector, but alas.

The increase in detail/sharpness is there and indeed small, as is the increase in clarity. But what struck me was the increase in depth of the D800E shots - a more three dimensional look .... it is to be seen at the very first glance at the image and quite attractive. Hadn't expected this at all. The difference in depth won't knock your socks off, but is much more noticeable than the difference in sharpness between the D800 and the D800E.

cheers,
Remko
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Ray
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« Reply #61 on: March 10, 2012, 01:26:56 AM »
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Ray,

I have been to a Nikon NPS event here in the Netherlands were several comparison shots D800 vs D800E were shown. These shots were not printed though, but presented via a projector ...... so much for a projector, but alas.

The increase in detail/sharpness is there and indeed small, as is the increase in clarity. But what struck me was the increase in depth of the D800E shots - a more three dimensional look .... it is to be seen at the very first glance at the image and quite attractive. Hadn't expected this at all. The difference in depth won't knock your socks off, but is much more noticeable than the difference in sharpness between the D800 and the D800E.

cheers,
Remko

Remko,
I can quite well believe that, when both images have received the same processing. One would expect the D800E to have slightly better micro-contrast, that is, slightly greater contrast of fine detail and edges.

Really large images, such as those from a projector, tend to look better, more 3-dimensional if you like, when local contrast has been enhanced or exaggerated. The processing one might apply to an image to be printed at A3 or A2 size would not be ideal for a 4ftx6ft print or an even larger image from a video projector.

The question is, can one isolate and define the qualities in the D800E image which are responsible for that sense of greater 3-dimensionality, then reproduce the same, or very similar effect in the D800 image through different or additional processing, such as greater detail enhancement and greater clarity adjustments in ACR and/or greater 'local contrast enhancement' in PS and different settings in Photoshop's 'Smart Sharpen' etc etc?

Mind you, there is something to be said for getting a particular desired effect straight out of the camera without a lot of stuffing around in post-processing.
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #62 on: March 10, 2012, 05:12:46 PM »
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Ray,

I have been to a Nikon NPS event here in the Netherlands were several comparison shots D800 vs D800E were shown. These shots were not printed though, but presented via a projector ...... so much for a projector, but alas.

The increase in detail/sharpness is there and indeed small, as is the increase in clarity. But what struck me was the increase in depth of the D800E shots - a more three dimensional look .... it is to be seen at the very first glance at the image and quite attractive. Hadn't expected this at all. The difference in depth won't knock your socks off, but is much more noticeable than the difference in sharpness between the D800 and the D800E.

cheers,
Remko
Years ago I had my 5D AA filter removed by MaxMax and the difference was a much more 3 dimensional print I described the difference as much more "Palpable" for lack of a better description. I've just ordered a 800E!
Marc
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Marc McCalmont
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« Reply #63 on: March 10, 2012, 08:43:58 PM »
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Are there not any RAW NEF files available for comparison?  I'm not going to make my decision until I see a comparable RAW file side by side.  So much for pre-ordering.
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hjulenissen
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« Reply #64 on: March 11, 2012, 08:20:10 AM »
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The question is, can one isolate and define the qualities in the D800E image which are responsible for that sense of greater 3-dimensionality, then reproduce the same, or very similar effect in the D800 image through different or additional processing, such as greater detail enhancement and greater clarity adjustments in ACR and/or greater 'local contrast enhancement' in PS and different settings in Photoshop's 'Smart Sharpen' etc etc?
I would think that a simple, low-radius sharpening would reduce the perceptual difference by a lot _if_ the image has sufficient SNR at those spatial frequencies.

The nature of aliasing is such that a periodic frequency at fs/2 will "wrap around" and manifest itself as a constant value. If this behaviour is desirable, I have a hard time thinking of any processing that will emulate it properly.

-h
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ACH DIGITAL
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« Reply #65 on: March 11, 2012, 09:02:24 PM »
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Are there not any RAW NEF files available for comparison?  I'm not going to make my decision until I see a comparable RAW file side by side.  So much for pre-ordering.

These are a couple of files from a Russian website. NEF ISO 100, similar lighting, 1 D800 other D800E. Clearly can see differences..

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10120389/_3081766.NEF

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10120389/DSC_4683.NEF

ACH
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Antonio Chagin
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Scott O.
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« Reply #66 on: March 11, 2012, 09:47:56 PM »
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The D800 file is only 40mb, while the D800E is 73mb.  Shouldn't they be about the same???  Also, the lighting is different and the way the items are arranged is different.  So, sorry to say this doesn't show me squat!
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 09:52:22 PM by soberle » Logged

LKaven
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« Reply #67 on: March 11, 2012, 09:59:23 PM »
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The D800 file is only 40mb, while the D800E is 73mb.  Shouldn't they be about the same???  Also, the lighting is different and the way the items are arranged is different.  So, sorry to say this doesn't show me squat!

I wonder if high-frequency detail foils the lossless compression scheme a bit. 

Without edges, you could represent much of the variation in 14-bit quantities as being localized in the least-significant byte.  You'd only need one byte per photosite in many cases, with the value of the most significant byte being fixed for a run-length. 

I have no idea if this is exactly the way the compression is done, but the compression depends upon the statistical shape of the data.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #68 on: March 12, 2012, 01:18:54 AM »
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Hi,

The images are different, but here is a quick comparison done in Lightroom.

The marked area seems very different between the two. It may have been fake detail "invented" by aliasing. Marking was done in Photoshop.

Best regards
Erik


These are a couple of files from a Russian website. NEF ISO 100, similar lighting, 1 D800 other D800E. Clearly can see differences..

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10120389/_3081766.NEF

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10120389/DSC_4683.NEF

ACH

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MrSmith
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« Reply #69 on: March 12, 2012, 05:49:46 AM »
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"The marked area seems very different between the two. It may have been fake detail "invented" by aliasing. Marking was done in Photoshop"

any competent photographer who understands light would have seen the seen the big highlight on the top of the camera (L/H pic) and noticed it's absence from the R/H pic, they would also have noticed the angle of the surface you have highlighted and made an educated guess as to why that particular surface is reacting to light differently in each image.
it's nothing to do with AA or no AA or false detail but everything to do with light placement and angle of reflection plus micro specular reflections in fine grained thermoplastic castings   Smiley
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ACH DIGITAL
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« Reply #70 on: March 12, 2012, 07:15:31 AM »
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This behavior on the D800E worries me.. I mean the highlight border colors.

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Antonio Chagin
www.achdigital.com
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